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      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
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clebin 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 15:19:12
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@Varthall

Quote:
I agree. It's incredible that some people, like me, choose what they like. They should choose what other people think it's better, not what they want.


No offense, but customers don't always know what they want. Look at what some of the Mac hardcore said about OS X and about going Intel. Not only has the Mac doubled in market-share over the last few years, you'll be lucky to find one of those vocal critics who hasn't done a complete U-Turn.

Chris

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opi 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 15:34:39
#22 ]
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Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@Fransexy

Quote:
Funny and ironic words from a men that designed the PIOS One (a mere PC with a PowerPC cpu) and wanted it to be the next gen AmigaOS compatible machine


You do know that he worked in a little company called Commodore?

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clebin 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 15:38:39
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@vidarh

Open-source is always the ideal for me, though I've been blinded by the sparkly Super-AGA promise.

Do you know what's forecast in terms of FPGA speeds and prices over the next few years? Google hasn't been my friend on this question!

Chris

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Mechanic 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 16:09:04
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@Varthall

Quote:

Varthall wrote:
@clebin

I agree. It's incredible that some people, like me, choose what they like. They should choose what other people think it's better, not what they want.



What the..........



YOU WILL COMPLY...........and be happy.

So let it be written......bla-bla-bla.



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Varthall 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 16:24:04
#25 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Feb-2004
Posts: 1546
From: Up Rough

@clebin

Probably the less vocal ones are now running OS X on Hackintoshes, or have switched to other OSes.

Varthall

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clebin 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 16:30:49
#26 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@Varthall

On what evidence?

Chris

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 16:38:16
#27 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@Fransexy

He is one of the last living among the ones who knows anything about Amiga
more than all of us together. So, i take his words as the words from the Holy Bible.

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billt 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 16:38:42
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3021
From: Maryland, USA

I agree that potential hackability is what makes the Natami board highly attractive. To me at least.
But... I've
already been told that Natami won't be hackable in a practical sense. And thus, to me, FpgaArcade is the more attractive choice of the two. Even if the Natami features are better (PCI slot, bigger/faster FPGA, etc), if I can't fiddle with things, then I'm less interested. And I'd love to fiddle with things. I'm not asking to hack into the Natami core itself, which would probably require the sourcecode, though that would be part of interesting hacking if we could, I'd love to play with things like learning the PCI bus and other things, which means I'd more likely have to port MiniMig or aoOCS to the Natami board. That means we need to know the schematics of the board (what pins connect to what pins/connectors), and have datasheets for the components, which we can probably get.

I don't understand the suggestion that Natami would be a poor general FPGA experimenting board. I'd love to see a general FPGA board like this, with a relatively large FPGA, PCI slot, DVI, ethernet, USB, HD Audio ports/codec, etc. Natami is so far the closest I've seen to my ideal. Maybe we can talk MikeJ into something crazy for FpgaArcade 2. :) But oh well.

Actually, what would be fantastic cool IMHO is a COM-Express module (or Q-Seven or whatever, but ComExpress/ETX-Express seem the most popular) that is nothing but FPGAs connected to everything, using SERDES FPGAs for ports that require it, and whatever D/A converters etc. that would be needed for ports that require it. Then we could get whatever shape motherboard we want to put that on.

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 16:40:41
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@cheesegrate

Quote:

cheesegrate wrote:
@Forcie-NatamiTeam

Who is this Haynie with his negativity? Obviously the x1000 is not targeted at people like him or anything to do with him. It is targeted at the amigans.net subset that want to utilise all the modern features of the x1000 that os4 supports.


His predictions are most valuable things you can get today! He said what a normal
person should take for granted. At the end of the whole story, he designed some of
the most vital parts of the classic Amigas, so, I think that he knows what is the
difference between night and day.

All the best to you Dave!

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Varthall 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 17:04:52
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Feb-2004
Posts: 1546
From: Up Rough

@clebin

There can't be much evidence available, since I was referring to the less vocal crowd. That's why I used the word "probably".

Varthall

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 17:10:55
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10680
From: Norway

@Forcie-NatamiTeam

As I see it, these two products are aimed at different types of user groups there for don’t compete, there for it totally irrelevant to compare the product against ether other.

NetAMI is perfect for old applications that only support AGA or ECS, NetAMI tries to be better and faster than a classic Amiga4000 / Amiga1200, this computer will not be able to play movies at any nice fps, they have chosen paula sound, so the sound quality will be 14bit, you will get high level of compatibility whit old games, and “all” games should play perfect, thanks to faster graphics and CPU you get more out of your classic setup.

AmigaOne X1000 is computer that will able to run classic Picasso96 / cyber graphic application (or application running custom screens) extremely fast as long as applications are system friendly, you can run newest most CPU demanding applications, you should be able to play most movie formats at good speed, and you get crystal clear sound from Amiga Amp and TuneNet thanks to modern soundcards, surfing the web is not a big problem, old games can be a disappointment in EUAE it does not guaranty clock perfect emulation, but you can setup individual configuration for etch game so it’s almost guaranteed the games will start.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2011 at 07:15 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2011 at 05:15 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2011 at 05:13 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2011 at 05:12 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2011 at 05:11 PM.

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clebin 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 17:37:43
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@Varthall

No evidence = probably? And every scrap of evidence points to the opposite being true!

EDIT: Anyway... I'm more interested in FPGA speeds. Anyone know what the forecast is for the 5 years or so?

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 14-Apr-2011 at 05:56 PM.

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jingof 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 18:21:00
#33 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2007
Posts: 497
From: Jingo Fet is from "A Galaxy Far, Far Away"

@Forcie-NatamiTeam

Quote:
For one, you can claim real Amiga cred there -- doing things the Amiga way. You're not just a PC with a PowerPC CPU and some VGA chip trying to make the claim of being an Amiga.

This logic is just plain wrong - and surprising coming from a Sage of Amiga lore. I've heard this many times before. That "next generation" Amiga's aren't really Amiga's simply because they are so different from the classics. Or because it shares components with 'evil' PCs.

If that logic holds, then today's Macs are not TRUELY Macs because they are so different from classic Macs.

Heck, if Dave Haynie and the original Amiga team were still producing new Amigas, they would likely be unrecognizably different by now.

Distance from the classics cannot be the measure of "Amiganess." Otherwise, a "modern" future for this platform (or any other) is an impossibility.

Evolve or Die.

Last edited by jingof on 14-Apr-2011 at 06:29 PM.
Last edited by jingof on 14-Apr-2011 at 06:27 PM.
Last edited by jingof on 14-Apr-2011 at 06:24 PM.
Last edited by jingof on 14-Apr-2011 at 06:22 PM.

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cheesegrate 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 18:47:28
#34 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Apr-2007
Posts: 259
From: Australia

@jingof

Quote:
This logic is just plain wrong - and surprising coming from a Sage of Amiga lore. I've heard this many times before. That "next generation" Amiga's aren't really Amiga's simply because they are so different from the classics. Or because it shares components with 'evil' PCs.


Another arguement is next generations amigas are not amigas because they cannot be legally called Amigas

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jas_mc 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 19:01:37
#35 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@cheesegrate

They can't be branded, sold, or advertised as Amigas. But you can call your computer whatever you want. I'm gonna call mine Deep Blue

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 19:12:15
#36 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10680
From: Norway

@cheesegrate

Quote:

cheesegrate wrote:
@jingof

Quote:
This logic is just plain wrong - and surprising coming from a Sage of Amiga lore. I've heard this many times before. That "next generation" Amiga's aren't really Amiga's simply because they are so different from the classics. Or because it shares components with 'evil' PCs.


Another arguement is next generations amigas are not amigas because they cannot be legally called Amigas


A-EON can legally use the AmigaOne name, and they can also be legality advertised as AmigaOS compatible, as Hyperion has the rights to use the AmigaOS name.

Amiga Inc / Commodore USA / and co has the right to Amiga sticker they can put on brad toaster and vacuum cleaners if they like.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 19:20:26
#37 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2060
From: Ft. Collins, Colorado, USA

@jingof

Quote:

jingof wrote:

If that logic holds, then today's Macs are not TRUELY Macs because they are so different from classic Macs.

Heck, if Dave Haynie and the original Amiga team were still producing new Amigas, they would likely be unrecognizably different by now.

Distance from the classics cannot be the measure of "Amiganess." Otherwise, a "modern" future for this platform (or any other) is an impossibility.

Evolve or Die.


The only way you could get Amiga Classic-like performance out of a VGA-style chip would be if you made everybody use a common API that contained all of the functionality of the Classic Amiga chipset and then implement those features as fragment shader programs using Gallium drivers. (BTW, I tried doing it with MESA on a Linux machine. It takes 4 times as much memory per pixel to do a palette mapped resolution with copper rainbows as what it would take banging the Gallium drivers directly.)

As for evolving and dying, isn't that how natural selection works? You die to evolve.

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ikir 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 20:18:32
#38 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5646
From: Italy

@Forcie-NatamiTeam

Bah get a Sam, it is awesome awesome awesome and it is real and available now. Best Amiga thing aver bought.

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Mechanic 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 20:58:04
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@Forcie-NatamiTeam

Quote:

Forcie-NatamiTeam wrote:
You're not just a PC with a PowerPC CPU and some VGA chip trying to make the claim of being an Amiga.


Is this the same Dave that wanted to put AmigaOS on commodity hardware and call it Amiga?

Maybe not.

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damocles 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 14-Apr-2011 22:03:53
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@Mechanic

Quote:
Is this the same Dave that wanted to put AmigaOS on commodity hardware and call it Amiga? Maybe not.


Perhaps he hasn't been keeping up with AROS since it's already doing just that.

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