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      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
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Stephen_Robinson 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:29:18
#401 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Posts: 1991
From: UK

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@hazydave

An Open Letter to Dave Haynie

Care to comment?






....Mr. Haynie, your silence will only incriminate you further.....No, Mr. Haynie, don't take your anger out on me. Get back! Get back! Mist -- Mr. Haynie-- nooo!

Actually, I do wonder of the actual worth of a 68k assembler code would be in porting to PPC, but then what would I know?

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DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:31:24
#402 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Arko
PA6T is a Soc alright, and it's used in embedded motherboards created for the Military and Aerospace industries. Systems form X-Es and Varisys are just a few examples, what you linked uses a very noisy and power hungry 970MP which has no correlation to the above markets, industries and type of CPUs used there (I didn't say it is the most powerful PPC but the most powerful DualCore Soc for embedded use).
Ferrel implied the chip was discontinued due to being surpassed when in its own market It is not (in the embedded low-power consumption world, far weaker CPUs are still in production simply because the company that makes them it's still around).
The reason it's no longer produced is to be linked to PASemi's own history.

@Damocles
Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back
Note: that was an example of irrelevant benchmarking not a good one. I mentioned it because posting a an irrelevant bench that depicts the PA6T badly or posting an irrelevant bench where the PA6T shines, will do US (amigans) no good.
When the X1000 will be out we'll do street benchs with real desktop applications, that will indeed be helpful.

Last edited by DAX on 18-Apr-2011 at 05:37 PM.

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damocles 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:53:33
#403 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@DAX

Quote:
Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back Note: that was an example of irrelevant benchmarking not a good one. I mentioned it because posting a an irrelevant bench that depicts the PA6T badly or posting an irrelevant bench where the PA6T shines, will do US (amigans) no good. When the X1000 will be out we'll do street benchs with real desktop applications, that will indeed be helpful.


I do agree it won't be helpful since PA6T is out of production and unlikely to return. But it would be interesting, nether the less, to see that benchmark and what they had to do to exploit a weakness of the G5.

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DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:06:57
#404 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@damocles
There were 4 benchs, 1 went slightly in favor of the PA6T, one slightly in favor of the G5, one basically on par and one which used optimized code was like 4 times faster on the PA6T.
Again, useless stuff IMHO... (I mentioned Pavlor because he provided the original link, I'm sure he still has it).

Last edited by DAX on 18-Apr-2011 at 06:07 PM.

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eliyahu 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:38:01
#405 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1724
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Stephen_Robinson

Quote:


....Mr. Haynie, your silence will only incriminate you further.....No, Mr. Haynie, don't take your anger out on me. Get back! Get back! Mist -- Mr. Haynie-- nooo!

Actually, I do wonder of the actual worth of a 68k assembler code would be in porting to PPC, but then what would I know?

outstanding. any time a simpsons or futurama reference is used around here, my day gets a little brighter. especially reading through this thread.

job well done.

-- eliyahu

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pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:41:24
#406 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
No, its 7 year old technology. X86 systems were outperforming the X1000 CPU back in 2004.


Please, show me dual-core desktop CPU from 2004 with estimated performance 1000 SpecInt2000 and 1500 SpecFp2000 and TDP around 25W .

For benchmarks
http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc07/Day3/09_Artz_Pres.pdf
http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc08/Day3/C1-Bueno-Poster.pdf

and of course Coremark.

Application benchmarks show that PA6T is comparable to 970FX (two CPUs).

Quote:
And the Natami wasn't designed to compete with the x1000 or any other system out there. It's a 68k retro board and will perform as such.


My point was that if price/performance ratio is argument of some Natami supporters against X1000, then price/performance ratio of Natami is much worser.


@DAX

Quote:
Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back


I´m back!

Last edited by pavlor on 18-Apr-2011 at 06:43 PM.

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vidarh 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:01:02
#407 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 580
From: London, UK (ex-pat; originally from Norway)

@mausle

10 very active core AROS developers is probably about right, plus another 10-20 that commit much more irregularly (I'm in that category - my last commit was beginning of March).

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_ThEcRoW 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:26:29
#408 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 825
From: Murcia (Spain)

How is it that os4 was scheduled for 2002-4 if i'm not mistaken, and they haven't delivered the final version yet?. These are too much years for the things they have done. It lacks usb2 among other first necessities in a os.

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number6 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:33:23
#409 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9790
From: In the village

@_ThEcRoW

Quote:
How is it that os4 was scheduled for 2002-4 if i'm not mistaken, and they haven't delivered the final version yet?.


OS4 final was released on December 24, 2006.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3536

#6

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DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:39:15
#410 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@pavlor
where have you been?? :)

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Kremlar 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 20:20:52
#411 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2010
Posts: 71
From: Unknown

Quote:
Please, show me dual-core desktop CPU from 2004 with estimated performance 1000 SpecInt2000 and 1500 SpecFp2000 and TDP around 25W .


Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors.

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TheDaddy 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 20:26:36
#412 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4490
From: Quattro Stelle

@Kremlar

>>Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors.

Pentium 4 @3.46GHz = 110.7-120W?

Last edited by TheDaddy on 18-Apr-2011 at 08:36 PM.
Last edited by TheDaddy on 18-Apr-2011 at 08:27 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 20:36:58
#413 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@Kremlar

Quote:
Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors.


3.4E GHz Pentium 4 (single core)
1484 SpecInt2000
1492 SpecFp2000
TDP: above 100W (not counting needed chipset on motherboard of course)

Next try?

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mausle 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:06:04
#414 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2003
Posts: 139
From: Unknown

@vidarh

Quote:

vidarh wrote:
@mausle

10 very active core AROS developers is probably about right, plus another 10-20 that commit much more irregularly (I'm in that category - my last commit was beginning of March).


Yes, i Know, really liked your contrib. As a git user i Look forward to your Progress in this Area.

Ciao

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Arko 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:40:00
#415 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:


http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc07/Day3/09_Artz_Pres.pdf
http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc08/Day3/C1-Bueno-Poster.pdf

The G5 used in this benachmarks is a singlecore G5 (PowerPC 970FX) at 2GHz and it is compared with a dulacore PASemi wit 1,7Ghz

We know the PASemi could be faster but the 970FX could also be a lot faster, Apple used it up to 2,7Ghz and a dual core variant would have double the speed of it.

So it seems the the 2 x 970MP used in a 1900$ YDL workstation where a lot faster and had a much better performance / dollar ratio.

Power consumption: We should talk about it again when the A1X1K laptop will be introduced, this would be the kind of application where the PASemi was designed for.





Last edited by Arko on 18-Apr-2011 at 10:40 PM.

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I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

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pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:54:45
#416 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@Arko

Quote:
The G5 used in this benachmarks is a singlecore G5 (PowerPC 970FX) at 2GHz and it is compared with a dulacore PASemi wit 1,7Ghz


One of these papers compares 970FX 2 GHz (single core) to PA6T 1.7 GHz (dual core), the other 970FX 2 GHz (two CPUs) and 8641D 1.5 GHz (dual core) and PA6T 2 GHz (dual core).

Quote:
Apple used it up to 2,7Ghz and a dual core variant would have double the speed of it.


Yes, two 970FX CPUs at 2.7 GHz. Most powerful Apple Power Mac G5 model has two 970MP 2.5 GHz CPUs (in summ 4 cores).

Quote:
So it seems the the 2 x 970MP used in a 1900$ YDL workstation where a lot faster and had a much better performance / dollar ratio.


And produces much more noise and heat.

Last edited by pavlor on 18-Apr-2011 at 10:58 PM.

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:58:30
#417 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@all

Jesus Christ...

What a bunch of nonsenses are most of you debating about. CPUs that are dead,
comparing them with some actual (discontinued) CPUs , then what would it be
if something else was not to happen, then blame him because he said something that
is against something that did not even egsisting but it sounds good and no one
can say nothing against that. Not to mention that each post mutates into
ppc vs. x86 / hyp vs. cusa circus.

of all this last 3 years of endless nonsenses, flame threads

Hello people... we live in 2011... 68xxx is long time dead, PPC is dead also...
Let us be real, leave the past behind and remember it sometimes...
stop living in past... what is wrong with you?

What is the current most selling dekstop platform? Most powerfull and
most valuable in price/performance? Go, fetch it... Why to go always on
harder, longer and more painfull road?

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pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 23:01:11
#418 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@eXec

We are using and loving dead computer platform, so I think talk about dead CPUs is OK.

Quote:
Why to go always on
harder, longer and more painfull road?


Challenge?

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 23:03:24
#419 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@pavlor

this is the ghost city then...

if so, why need for "modern technologies" via already dead equipment.
Dave wrote everything... seems no one listens....

challenge? what for? another agony? another decade of nothing?

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Caveman 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 23:14:13
#420 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@eXec

The land of the living dead?

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