Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5651 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 46 guest(s) on-line.
 1 member(s) on-line.


 tlosm

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 tlosm:  41 secs ago
 Hypex:  29 mins ago
 cip060:  34 mins ago
 g01df1sh:  44 mins ago
 SpaceMonkeyUK:  47 mins ago
 OneTimer1:  57 mins ago
 clint:  59 mins ago
 K-L:  1 hr 8 mins ago
 DruggedBunny:  1 hr 12 mins ago
 Amiboy:  1 hr 15 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 Next Page )
PosterThread
Stephen_Robinson 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 16:29:18
#401 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Posts: 1991
From: UK

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@hazydave

An Open Letter to Dave Haynie

Care to comment?






....Mr. Haynie, your silence will only incriminate you further.....No, Mr. Haynie, don't take your anger out on me. Get back! Get back! Mist -- Mr. Haynie-- nooo!

Actually, I do wonder of the actual worth of a 68k assembler code would be in porting to PPC, but then what would I know?

_________________
Rage quited 29th May 2011

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 16:31:24
#402 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Arko
PA6T is a Soc alright, and it's used in embedded motherboards created for the Military and Aerospace industries. Systems form X-Es and Varisys are just a few examples, what you linked uses a very noisy and power hungry 970MP which has no correlation to the above markets, industries and type of CPUs used there (I didn't say it is the most powerful PPC but the most powerful DualCore Soc for embedded use).
Ferrel implied the chip was discontinued due to being surpassed when in its own market It is not (in the embedded low-power consumption world, far weaker CPUs are still in production simply because the company that makes them it's still around).
The reason it's no longer produced is to be linked to PASemi's own history.

@Damocles
Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back
Note: that was an example of irrelevant benchmarking not a good one. I mentioned it because posting a an irrelevant bench that depicts the PA6T badly or posting an irrelevant bench where the PA6T shines, will do US (amigans) no good.
When the X1000 will be out we'll do street benchs with real desktop applications, that will indeed be helpful.

Last edited by DAX on 18-Apr-2011 at 04:37 PM.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
damocles 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 16:53:33
#403 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@DAX

Quote:
Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back Note: that was an example of irrelevant benchmarking not a good one. I mentioned it because posting a an irrelevant bench that depicts the PA6T badly or posting an irrelevant bench where the PA6T shines, will do US (amigans) no good. When the X1000 will be out we'll do street benchs with real desktop applications, that will indeed be helpful.


I do agree it won't be helpful since PA6T is out of production and unlikely to return. But it would be interesting, nether the less, to see that benchmark and what they had to do to exploit a weakness of the G5.

_________________
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I only speak for myself.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:06:57
#404 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@damocles
There were 4 benchs, 1 went slightly in favor of the PA6T, one slightly in favor of the G5, one basically on par and one which used optimized code was like 4 times faster on the PA6T.
Again, useless stuff IMHO... (I mentioned Pavlor because he provided the original link, I'm sure he still has it).

Last edited by DAX on 18-Apr-2011 at 05:07 PM.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eliyahu 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:38:01
#405 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1729
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Stephen_Robinson

Quote:


....Mr. Haynie, your silence will only incriminate you further.....No, Mr. Haynie, don't take your anger out on me. Get back! Get back! Mist -- Mr. Haynie-- nooo!

Actually, I do wonder of the actual worth of a 68k assembler code would be in porting to PPC, but then what would I know?

outstanding. any time a simpsons or futurama reference is used around here, my day gets a little brighter. especially reading through this thread.

job well done.

-- eliyahu

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 17:41:24
#406 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8487
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
No, its 7 year old technology. X86 systems were outperforming the X1000 CPU back in 2004.


Please, show me dual-core desktop CPU from 2004 with estimated performance 1000 SpecInt2000 and 1500 SpecFp2000 and TDP around 25W .

For benchmarks
http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc07/Day3/09_Artz_Pres.pdf
http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc08/Day3/C1-Bueno-Poster.pdf

and of course Coremark.

Application benchmarks show that PA6T is comparable to 970FX (two CPUs).

Quote:
And the Natami wasn't designed to compete with the x1000 or any other system out there. It's a 68k retro board and will perform as such.


My point was that if price/performance ratio is argument of some Natami supporters against X1000, then price/performance ratio of Natami is much worser.


@DAX

Quote:
Don't let me go search for the link, I'm sure Pavlor will post it as soon as he gets back


I´m back!

Last edited by pavlor on 18-Apr-2011 at 05:43 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
vidarh 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:01:02
#407 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 580
From: London, UK (ex-pat; originally from Norway)

@mausle

10 very active core AROS developers is probably about right, plus another 10-20 that commit much more irregularly (I'm in that category - my last commit was beginning of March).

_________________
Wiki for new/returning Amiga users - Projects: ACE basic compiler / FrexxEd / Git

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
_ThEcRoW 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:26:29
#408 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 825
From: Murcia (Spain)

How is it that os4 was scheduled for 2002-4 if i'm not mistaken, and they haven't delivered the final version yet?. These are too much years for the things they have done. It lacks usb2 among other first necessities in a os.

_________________
Amiga 1200 desktop. Apollo 030/50 Mhz 8mb ram + ClassicWB + Wb 3.1
Amiga 500 1 mb ECS Power!!!
C64 DTV + Keyboard mod. Waiting for a 1541 disk drive...
Mac Mini G4 1GB Ram with the butterfly!!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
number6 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:33:23
#409 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9896
From: In the village

@_ThEcRoW

Quote:
How is it that os4 was scheduled for 2002-4 if i'm not mistaken, and they haven't delivered the final version yet?.


OS4 final was released on December 24, 2006.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3536

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 18:39:15
#410 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@pavlor
where have you been?? :)

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Kremlar 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:20:52
#411 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2010
Posts: 71
From: Unknown

Quote:
Please, show me dual-core desktop CPU from 2004 with estimated performance 1000 SpecInt2000 and 1500 SpecFp2000 and TDP around 25W .


Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
TheDaddy 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:26:36
#412 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4492
From: Quattro Stelle

@Kremlar

>>Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors.

Pentium 4 @3.46GHz = 110.7-120W?

Last edited by TheDaddy on 18-Apr-2011 at 07:36 PM.
Last edited by TheDaddy on 18-Apr-2011 at 07:27 PM.

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 19:36:58
#413 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8487
From: Unknown

@Kremlar

Quote:
Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors.


3.4E GHz Pentium 4 (single core)
1484 SpecInt2000
1492 SpecFp2000
TDP: above 100W (not counting needed chipset on motherboard of course)

Next try?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
mausle 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 21:06:04
#414 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2003
Posts: 139
From: Unknown

@vidarh

Quote:

vidarh wrote:
@mausle

10 very active core AROS developers is probably about right, plus another 10-20 that commit much more irregularly (I'm in that category - my last commit was beginning of March).


Yes, i Know, really liked your contrib. As a git user i Look forward to your Progress in this Area.

Ciao

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Arko 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 21:40:00
#415 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:


http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc07/Day3/09_Artz_Pres.pdf
http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc08/Day3/C1-Bueno-Poster.pdf

The G5 used in this benachmarks is a singlecore G5 (PowerPC 970FX) at 2GHz and it is compared with a dulacore PASemi wit 1,7Ghz

We know the PASemi could be faster but the 970FX could also be a lot faster, Apple used it up to 2,7Ghz and a dual core variant would have double the speed of it.

So it seems the the 2 x 970MP used in a 1900$ YDL workstation where a lot faster and had a much better performance / dollar ratio.

Power consumption: We should talk about it again when the A1X1K laptop will be introduced, this would be the kind of application where the PASemi was designed for.





Last edited by Arko on 18-Apr-2011 at 09:40 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 21:54:45
#416 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8487
From: Unknown

@Arko

Quote:
The G5 used in this benachmarks is a singlecore G5 (PowerPC 970FX) at 2GHz and it is compared with a dulacore PASemi wit 1,7Ghz


One of these papers compares 970FX 2 GHz (single core) to PA6T 1.7 GHz (dual core), the other 970FX 2 GHz (two CPUs) and 8641D 1.5 GHz (dual core) and PA6T 2 GHz (dual core).

Quote:
Apple used it up to 2,7Ghz and a dual core variant would have double the speed of it.


Yes, two 970FX CPUs at 2.7 GHz. Most powerful Apple Power Mac G5 model has two 970MP 2.5 GHz CPUs (in summ 4 cores).

Quote:
So it seems the the 2 x 970MP used in a 1900$ YDL workstation where a lot faster and had a much better performance / dollar ratio.


And produces much more noise and heat.

Last edited by pavlor on 18-Apr-2011 at 09:58 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 21:58:30
#417 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@all

Jesus Christ...

What a bunch of nonsenses are most of you debating about. CPUs that are dead,
comparing them with some actual (discontinued) CPUs , then what would it be
if something else was not to happen, then blame him because he said something that
is against something that did not even egsisting but it sounds good and no one
can say nothing against that. Not to mention that each post mutates into
ppc vs. x86 / hyp vs. cusa circus.

of all this last 3 years of endless nonsenses, flame threads

Hello people... we live in 2011... 68xxx is long time dead, PPC is dead also...
Let us be real, leave the past behind and remember it sometimes...
stop living in past... what is wrong with you?

What is the current most selling dekstop platform? Most powerfull and
most valuable in price/performance? Go, fetch it... Why to go always on
harder, longer and more painfull road?

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:01:11
#418 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8487
From: Unknown

@eXec

We are using and loving dead computer platform, so I think talk about dead CPUs is OK.

Quote:
Why to go always on
harder, longer and more painfull road?


Challenge?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:03:24
#419 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@pavlor

this is the ghost city then...

if so, why need for "modern technologies" via already dead equipment.
Dave wrote everything... seems no one listens....

challenge? what for? another agony? another decade of nothing?

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Caveman 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:14:13
#420 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@eXec

The land of the living dead?

_________________

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle