@eXec
Again you're too negative with your forcasts about eventual next Amigas after the X1000, still read what Rassilon wrote at post 454 (@Pavlor too) and you might realize that if you buy an X1000 a few months from now (not years) you might not buy the Freescale equipped X2000 not because it won't be powerful enough, but au contraire, because you will feel the X1000 is already all you need!

Software as you said it's important so let's see what we have here:

Word processing/office today:
we have PageStream (with a fully native 5.x still pending) and ABWord, Gnumeric etc.

Future:
there is OpenOffice Lite coming, and the QT port (almost finished! check Amigans.net for further news) will probably bring in Koffice too when completed (my guess).

http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use/story/app/koffice/

Presentation today: Hollywood 3.0 is probably better than PP. And you can make a presentation on the X1000 and send it to a PC user where it will work directly (of course Hollywood does way more than just that).

Future: again, PP compatible presenters are present in both OOL and Koffice (Kpresenter) .

3D/Video Editing: Blender does both very well, and is feature rich (also an excellent video compositor, so much so that there is an ENTIRE BOOK about this) all we need is a faster machine to use it proficiently (ie:X1000)

WebBrowsing: this is the no brainer of the lot.
I don't think flash will survive the HTML5 revolution "as is", and probably all companies will at least provide an alternative version (to flash) along side the flash version.

Moreover Gnash is progressing ( http://savannah.gnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=6759 ) and releasing updates every 6 months. Some have criticized Gnash for not being good enough, but quite frankly, new version after new version it will eventually get somewhere (whether detractors like it or not).
As you know MuiOWB from Fab is being ported and FF4.0 too (the latter even features WebGL) so feel confindent the web is covered.

MediaPlayers: I must admit I love TuneNet. It plays any music format and handles my NetRadio channels very well (it even uses the OS notification system).
For video we have both DVPlayer and mPlayer. In order to watch super hi-res stuff it's just a matter of processing power (again the X1000 should come to the rescue).
Finally there is the very nice Amiga Media Player.

Image-Editing: in Amigaland we have an OS4 native version of ArtEffect pending (confirmed by Alinea) and of course we can use Gimp (newer verion coming too according Edgar).


Now someone will say: why buy an Amiga for Gimp when I can have that on Linux!! The problem is actually the other way around, we want our familiar Amiga environment with all of its much beloved features, and using Gimp doesn't chage that one bit.
Using Linux changes everything instead, and at that point Gimp won't matter (I would just get back to windows).

Music: I know this is your field and that you've been complaining about it. Although not announced I see a version of Audio Evolution 5.2 coming. Davy Wentzler is in very good relationship with Trevor, so I believe they will cook it up some way or another. 5.2 for Windows has been released recently ( http://www.audio-evolution.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6&Itemid=6 ) now with support for VST and MP3 import.
It's also a wip that will bring in more features in the future, count on it (you could even contact Davy and ask for specific features you want, he might listen, this is one of the good traits of the Amiga community).

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is: the OS is still in development new software is coming, new HW is released every year (it has been so, for quite sometime now) so the dream of using an Amiga at home without ever switching on a PC it's ahead of us.

As Rassilon wrote, as long as you can open/modify PC/Mac files, enjoy any type of media and solve your computing task in a competent and swift way, you could live your computing life on this beloved platform, without worring too much if the competition uses a different CPU (I repeat and stress that "as long" but we're getting there).

Last edited by DAX on 19-Apr-2011 at 12:46 PM.
Last edited by DAX on 19-Apr-2011 at 12:42 PM.

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@eXec

all amiga flavors are "toys" now. Even in the time of Commodore it was (mainly) a toy (Homecomputer), the only professional area was desktop video. So I do not know why we start throwing mud again. Live and let live and nobody should try to persuade others that his/her opinion is the only truth (thats how dictators think). We can exchange our arguments, but not on personal level. And we should accept that there are different views. But noone here should say only one direction is the way forward and everyone has to believe that (when not he/she is stupid, retro, living in the past...)

@DAX

While we are at it I wonder if SMP support for AmigaOS 4.x will allow us to use a Powerpc PCI card as well as the built in CPU on older machines.

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@DAX

Quote:

why buy an Amiga for Gimp when I can have that on Linux!! The problem is actually the other way around, we want our familiar Amiga environment with all of its much beloved features, and using Gimp doesn't chage that one bit.

I know what you're saying but I can hardly call using GIMP over X11 as that different from using Linux. Look, I'm all for making AmigaOS easy to be target platform for porting software. It's the only way we can get complex software. What I don't understand is letting half-baked, alien solution be presented as Good Thing™.

GTK-to-Reaction (or MUI) is proper move, GTK over X11 should be a band-aid not a final solution. Now, adding Qt to the mix (very powerful toolkit) makes it even harder to have anything that can be consider Amiga-experience.

So when you say that you want to keep using Amiga even if Linux/Mac/Windows has better port of GIMP/Blender/WebKit browser I understand. But dropping every toolkit you can lay your hands onto system without any serious work to make it native is a easy way to project hell.

I've seen it many times: adding features for sake of features instead refining core. Half-baked semi-solutions, hacks and feature-creeping: Broken Windows Theory.

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@opi

Quote:

X11 should be a band-aid not a final solution

Who says it have to be a final solution. We don't have enough developer power to finish the job. And instead of helping the cygnix guy many people are sitting on fences and whining. (Did you recognize yourself ?)

Also, think Cygnix as a virtual machine.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 19-Apr-2011 at 01:16 PM.

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@Tomppeli

Quote:

Did you recognize yourself ?

No.

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@opi

Quote:

alien solution be presented as Good Thing

Better than nothing.

Quote:

GTK-to-Reaction (or MUI) is proper move, GTK over X11 should be a band-aid not a final solution.

Nice idea. I heard the same argument from some of the MorphOS software developers. That is probably answer why there is no useable text editor with footnotes support for MorphOS.

In my point of view not so ideal solution (AmiCygnix on OS4) is better than no solution (eg. GTK-to-MUI on MorphOS).

@opi

Quote:

opi wrote: @DAX Quote: why buy an Amiga for Gimp when I can have that on Linux!! The problem is actually the other way around, we want our familiar Amiga environment with all of its much beloved features, and using Gimp doesn't chage that one bit. I know what you're saying but I can hardly call using GIMP over X11 as that different from using Linux. Look, I'm all for making AmigaOS easy to be target platform for porting software. It's the only way we can get complex software. What I don't understand is letting half-baked, alien solution be presented as Good Thing™. GTK-to-Reaction (or MUI) is proper move, GTK over X11 should be a band-aid not a final solution. Now, adding Qt to the mix (very powerful toolkit) makes it even harder to have anything that can be consider Amiga-experience. So when you say that you want to keep using Amiga even if Linux/Mac/Windows has better port of GIMP/Blender/WebKit browser I understand. But dropping every toolkit you can lay your hands onto system without any serious work to make it native is a easy way to project hell. I've seen it many times: adding features for sake of features instead refining core. Half-baked semi-solutions, hacks and feature-creeping: Broken Windows Theory.

I agree

@pavlor

Yes, this is discussion about style. From PM perspective is better to be coherent rather than have features. We have already established this is hobby platform and throwing more SDL games at it does not bring new blood. Yes, I strongly prefer MorphOS way of developing things.

Editor with footnotes? You mean AbiWord? Does it support non-latin1 encoding?

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@opi

Quote:

You mean AbiWord?

Yes.

Quote:

Does it support non-latin1 encoding?

I don´t know limitations of OS4 version, but Windows version is fully useable with Czech texts.

@eXec

I'd absolutely LOVE to meet you in real life, really would!

Rude!

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@pavlor

Quote:

I don´t know limitations of OS4 version, but Windows version is fully useable with Czech texts.

FWIK it can't. And this is what I call half-baked non-solution. I'd prefer to use Google Docs or write LaTeX files.

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@Rudei

Quote:

Rudei wrote: @eXec I'd absolutely LOVE to meet you in real life, really would! Rude!

Thank you for offer but, no thanks

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@opi

Quote:

I'd prefer to use Google Docs or write LaTeX files.

Google Docs support for footnotes is still rather poor. My experience with LaTeX is also limited (I wrote part of my master thesis with the help of LaTeX - really exotic for student of history ).

Quote:

And this is what I call half-baked non-solution

Non-solution for you, useful tool for others.

@pavlor

Quote:

Google Docs support for footnotes is still rather poor.

That can be true, I have no special needs for footnotes when I write.

Quote:

My experience with LaTeX is also limited (I wrote part of my master thesis with the help of LaTeX - really exotic for student of history ).

I have no need for LaTeX (I've learned it just because geeks do things for sake of learning) per se, but I love its output. The typography is sexy.

Quote:

Non-solution for you, useful tool for others.

Support for non-latin1 characters is pretty much required to consider any WYSIWYG editor not a toy. I'm trying to point out that quick ports from aliens systems, running via alien subsystems does not constitute Good Software. Sure, you can put "Yes" in a "Do system run WYSIWYG editor?" box but once you need to write something you're confronted with harsh reality. That's my beef. I know you understand.

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@Rassilon

Quote:

OS4.1 can do many things that your average consumer would want with much less resources than Windows and Linux, ...

That's good new, less resource is always good because wasting resources means wasting money. Please present me the link where you got your AOS4 system, it must have been much cheaper than my Linux netbook.

(that was meant to be ironic, but maybe he could really present a link, that would make me a potential AOS4 user)

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I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@opi
I perfectly agree with you that Amicygnix should not be considered as an end solution.

On a general note, Macs and Windows machines, hardly need applications coming from the X11 world (Windows in particular) as they have plenty of native ones in every possible field, however even the big guys that don't need such things, do have X11 implementations of sorts, (and all kind of ports in fields they already cover in spades with native software).

So X11 on Amiga is to be considered just as something "more" added to the mix (something a professional OS, which AOS still it's not, should provide "anyway").

We could say something similar for QT, however there have been talks to integrate some Amiga stuff in the QT tool-kit to make more "amiga-like" applications with it (after the main port is completed) and these apps do run directly in AmigaOS.

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@Arko

Not counting netbooks, OS4 based machine (eg. SAM) can be cheaper than desktop PC - in few years.

I wonder how much would I spare on electricity having for internet computer with 440ep and not Core 2.

(only joking of course)

@_ThEcRoW

Quote:

This was the final version?

For OS4.0, yes. Final was released December 24, 2006
The contract with AI was terminated just a few days before the announcement, and clearly noted on AI's website.
April 2007 saw the filing of the legal action Amiga Inc. v. Hyperion VOF.
July 2007, saw the release of another update to OS4.0, referred to as the July update. OS4.0 final is considered a combination of the release from December PLUS the update from July 2007.
After that, everything being discussed here is about OS4.1.

How any of this matches with earlier written -plans-, I would not know.

But clearly, 4.0 was expected earlier, if you are to take the former statement made on AI's website seriously:
Quote:

Now scheduled for commercial release in early 2005, AmigaOS 4.0...

since this statement remained on site years after.
It is also clear that communications were non-existent between the parties even back then, as an AI spokesman wrote on AW:
Quote:

If you want amiga.com's information regarding AmigaOS4 to reflect current status, then bug Hyperion to update me with the correct information.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 19-Apr-2011 at 02:44 PM.

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@DAX

Quote:

as you know MuiOWB from Fab is being ported and FF4.0 too (the latter even features WebGL) so feel confindent the web is covered.

Just as a precision, WebKit itself supports WebGL since 2009 or so. Enabling it in OWB would be possible, if the underlying GL layer offered all the needed bits (which it doesn't currently).