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      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
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Leo 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 14:10:51
#481 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1562
From: Unknown

Quote:

How much faster are current CPU? AmigaOS can easily regain factor 2-3 and even more in comparison to MSwindows (just guessing, ask the AmigaOS-profis).

What profits ? Since when an OS can make your CPU go faster ? :)

It can certainly make the UI feel more responsive, but this won't make your CPU calculate faster. Nor does Windows or Linux makes your CPU calculate slower...

Last edited by Leo on 19-Apr-2011 at 02:11 PM.

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serk118 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 14:25:07
#482 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Nov-2004
Posts: 672
From: London(uk)

Quote:

(I do realise that the Frieden brothers outside of Hyperion are working on Firefox so they have the right idea.)


Frieden brothers = 2
Hyperion=Frieden brothers

so how many people is hyperion?

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number6 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 14:28:39
#483 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9894
From: In the village

@serk118

Quote:
Frieden brothers = 2
Hyperion=Frieden brothers

so how many people is hyperion?


As I've posted before, there is no impressum on the new Hyperion site.
On the former site, the Friedens were most definitely NOT listed in -that- impressum.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5105
The change from:
Quote:
VOF = Partnership (with unlimited liability)

to:
Quote:
CVBA = Cooperative with limited liability


#6

Last edited by number6 on 19-Apr-2011 at 02:38 PM.
Last edited by number6 on 19-Apr-2011 at 02:30 PM.

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Rassilon 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 14:34:10
#484 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 540
From: Office desk, Wandsworth, London, UK

@Arko

Quote:
That's good new, less resource is always good because wasting resources means wasting money. Please present me the link where you got your AOS4 system, it must have been much cheaper than my Linux netbook.


As you guessed when I said less resources I meant that it uses less ram, cpu time etc. I don't have any links to hand but in terms of running an os that can play mp3s, watch a video file or 2, burn dvds etc - OS4 has a much smaller footprint that Windows and Linux.

Regards
Lewis

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number6 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 14:43:25
#485 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9894
From: In the village

@Rassilon

Quote:
As you guessed when I said less resources I meant that it uses less ram, cpu time etc. I don't have any links to hand but in terms of running an os that can play mp3s, watch a video file or 2, burn dvds etc - OS4 has a much smaller footprint that Windows and Linux.


We've talked about that in irc a bit. AmigaOS and MorphOS both have that smaller footprint, and the ability to play say...h264 compared to the resources required for other OSs points out the difference. Call it a real world test, if you like.

#6

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Jupp3 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 14:54:04
#486 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1203
From: Unknown

@Rassilon

Quote:
Your average consumer PC has a faster CPU than the X1000, but the difference is that Windows and in some cases Linux require a fast CPU to provide the interface that consumers expect due to the ever expanding set of features they provide. Throw a 4 year old CPU at Windows 7 or current linux distros with comparable ram to an Amiga and you will see systems that are painful to use.

Sure, "basic" Windows & Linux installations require far more resources that AmigaOS4 does. However, (excluding special uses, such as embedded devices) nearly everyone requires lot of performance for other things aswell. You know, modern-ish web browser, video playback, modern-ish games...

Which brings me up to the point:
How many REALLY usable (by average person outside Amiga community) programs can you name, that use significantly less resources than similar(*) programs on other platforms?

Don't get me wrong, of course it's great to have these "heavier" programs around (wouldn't consider an OS without good enough browser and video player usable) - the point is, the lightweight alternatives that many often refer to either don't exist, or just aren't comparable to what 99% of people are using.

Also, I don't mean X1000 is too slow - exactly the other way around. It's too "modern". There should be some cheap entry level hardware (something like Efika) with -get this- entry level price. Sure it might not play even modern 640x480 videos, but as long as it would be cheap enough (and possibly even adaptable to laptop design), I would assume quite more users would get one, than with X1000. Also, not needing big tower case for a system that no sane person would run any server on would be nice. Hobbies are always better, whenever they fit small space (ask anyones wife / girlfriend)

(*)f.ex. OS4 mplayer is similar to the linux version, but f.ex. iBrowse isn't similar to Firefox due to important missing features.

Quote:
I do realise that the Frieden brothers outside of Hyperion are working on Firefox so they have the right idea.

Weren't they subcontractors of Hyperion to begin with? I remember that being the reason why OS4 code couldn't be handed over to Amiga inc. (as it's not fully owned by Hyperion) - so technically they are "outside" all the time, I guess.

Last edited by Jupp3 on 19-Apr-2011 at 03:03 PM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 19-Apr-2011 at 03:01 PM.

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Mechanic 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 14:57:54
#487 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@Rassilon

Quote:

Rassilon wrote:

Consumers however do not care about CPU speeds and memory overheads they just want a system that works well and does what they want.


OOOoooooo! What you said! HERESY! Nothing but!

Do what you want on what you want to do it on.

I can't believe anybody said that.


and

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Rassilon 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:02:20
#488 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 540
From: Office desk, Wandsworth, London, UK

@Jupp3

For standard web browsing I don't see the X1000 being underpowered at all.

A lot of us see the home user market as targets for the X1000 in some sense, and that is why I mentioned browsing, mp3s, video playback as requirements as you average joe is going to want to do most of that- I believe the X1000 could do those without problem.

No wof course the other issue is that of things like Flash and other closed technologies - that is where it becomes hard to compete in certain markets (such as browsing) if you don't have the latest and greatest tech.

I have no doubt that the X1000 could handle most if not all of your average (Note average) users needs, and that is a start. After that it is about offering something that other platforms don't that users want.

Lewis

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damocles 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:13:43
#489 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@Rassilon

Quote:
A lot of us see the home user market as targets for the X1000 in some sense, and that is why I mentioned browsing, mp3s, video playback as requirements as you average joe is going to want to do most of that- I believe the X1000 could do those without problem.


The problem is the average Joe is not going to be spending north of 1,500 GBPs to do web browsing. iPad2 for 399 GBP, OTOH, I can see for home browsing.

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Rudei 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:27:12
#490 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3560
From: Dallas, Texas

@eXec

Quote:

eXec wrote:
@Rudei

Quote:

Rudei wrote:
@eXec

I'd absolutely LOVE to meet you in real life, really would!

Rude!


Thank you for offer but, no thanks


Shame, it'd be an interesting debate lol

Rude!

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Spectre660 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 15:54:24
#491 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3569
From: Unknown

My view on the whole matter is that the cost of X86 hardware needs to go down so I can buy one after buying my Amiga stuff.

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polka. 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 16:12:45
#492 ]
Super Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2005
Posts: 1820
From: Tortuga

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:

But clearly, 4.0 was expected earlier, if you are to take the former statement made on AI's website seriously:
Quote:
Now scheduled for commercial release in early 2005, AmigaOS 4.0...

since this statement remained on site years after.
It is also clear that communications were non-existent between the parties even back then, as an AI spokesman wrote on AW:
Quote:
If you want amiga.com's information regarding AmigaOS4 to reflect current status, then bug Hyperion to update me with the correct information.


#6


Even earlier release dates have been "expected", e.g.:

"The timeline for development will extend from the initial release, in 'Summer 2001' to the release of OS5 'late next year' (Winter 2002)."

Source

Further, in a development update (dated 21 January 2002), Hyperion stated that

"As we have taken on more work (Intuition etc.) and folded some of the functionality originally planned for OS 4.2 into OS 4.0, this inevitably means the original February release-date might slip somewhat but all in all we believe that the end-result will be technologically more satisfying."

Btw, a funny part: "I'm very pleased to say that Dave Haynie has agreed to serve as a technical consultant."

Source

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number6 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 16:18:23
#493 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9894
From: In the village

@polka.

Yep.
All of this started in the 90's, including the cementing of the camps, which further negated progress on a central front.
Ask anyone from the PDC who they feel lead us to where we are today, and you get the same answer universally. (seriously) Heh.

#6

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ferrels 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 16:31:01
#494 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 688
From: Arizona

@Rassilon

.Quote:

Rassilon wrote:
@Jupp3

For standard web browsing I don't see the X1000 being underpowered at all.

A lot of us see the home user market as targets for the X1000 in some sense, and that is why I mentioned browsing, mp3s, video playback as requirements as you average joe is going to want to do most of that- I believe the X1000 could do those without problem.

No wof course the other issue is that of things like Flash and other closed technologies - that is where it becomes hard to compete in certain markets (such as browsing) if you don't have the latest and greatest tech.

I have no doubt that the X1000 could handle most if not all of your average (Note average) users needs, and that is a start. After that it is about offering something that other platforms don't that users want.

Lewis




Stop being delusional about ANY Amiga competing with systems in the home PC market. And the X1000 nor the SAM nor any other Amiga offer anything that other platform users want but can't find in their PC. Stop living in a fantasy land where you think that Amiga will regain a share of any market other than the hobbyist market

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Antique 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 16:49:23
#495 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 885
From: Norway

@Rassilon

Thought i recognised the name.
Not sure if you remember, but you sold me a A1SE once.

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pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 17:50:59
#496 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
Stop living in a fantasy land where you think that Amiga will regain a share of any market other than the hobbyist market


What is wrong with living in a fantasy land? I like our own world of Amiga wonders, where anything is possible if you wait "two more weeks".

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Rob 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 17:53:11
#497 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5588
From: S.Wales

@eXec

Quote:
But if I say in one of the related topics it is overpriced, out of date, discontinued and get harsh comments from certain ppc s-creamers , i do feel like the one in the middle


People get pi$$ed off because you are pointing out the blatantly obvious, and doing it over and over again. It does get tiresome, it doesn't add value to a thread and it's not going to change Hyperion's current CPU policy.

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 17:58:04
#498 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@Rudei



I said no because of the distance... 3000-4000km is a bit too far away.
And you , from the actual posts between us two , think that I am a
, troller and everything connected with those two.



Last edited by eXec on 19-Apr-2011 at 05:58 PM.

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Mechanic 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 18:20:58
#499 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@eXec

Quote:

eXec wrote:

And you think that I am a , troller and everything connected with those two.


Wow! (Don't mean to butt into this twitter war.) I did not know you could read minds.

What is @ferrels thinking right now ?

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 19:55:17
#500 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@Mechanic

wow...

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