Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5647 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 53 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 olsen:  10 mins ago
 Jasper:  10 mins ago
 Raffaele:  23 mins ago
 Frostwolf:  29 mins ago
 Allanon:  30 mins ago
 K-L:  35 mins ago
 AmiKit:  41 mins ago
 simplex:  45 mins ago
 wolfe:  1 hr 12 mins ago
 AdvancedFollower:  1 hr 16 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 Next Page )
PosterThread
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 20:30:58
#621 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Karlos
I'm no Windows fan, but professional companies such as Autodesk or Epic do find ways to make stuff run faster on windows than any competing solution on any other system.

But if you tell me GPGPU is efficient on linux I'm interested to hear about it, can you make some examples? (genuinely interested)

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 20:38:29
#622 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 1923
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@DAX

Not sure about GPGPU on all hardware architectures, but CUDA on linux kicks #### plain and simple. I've used it on both linux and windows and although the tools available for windows are perhaps nicer (better integration with VS etc), raw performance is hard to beat on linux. I have no idea why it should be the case other than the fact that perhaps linux is just more efficient at dealing with high load tasks in general. I've also found it to be more stable for long running compute tasks and better at distributing load between multiple GPUs.

In fact, the Fastra II (http://fastra2.ua.ac.be/), which AFAIK is the fastest "desktop" GPGPU computer around is only made possible via Linux. It has 13 G200 class GPUs which required a custom motherboard bios just to allow them to be mapped in and they've had to modify the kernel to allow all the cards to be accessed. You won't get away with that sort of thing on Windows :)

_________________
IBrowse/AWeb user? amiga.org - classic browser edition

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 20:41:50
#623 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Karlos
Cool

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:13:58
#624 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 864
From: N-Space

@hazydave

Quote:
MacOS is a religion.

Well, not a very good one their messiah has a health crisis every other year.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Stephen_Robinson 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:18:32
#625 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Posts: 1991
From: UK

Quote:

TrevorDick wrote:
@nimrod7

Quote:
but i was referring to NEMO motherboardb


Oh OK. NE(w) MO(therboard) = NEMO

TrevorD


I didn't know that, or had worked out the anagram of A-one...

_________________
Rage quited 29th May 2011

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:19:10
#626 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:
Well, not a very good one their messiah has a health crisis every other year.


Not a problem. I know one relatively successful religion whose messiah was brutaly executed some years ago.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
bison 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:29:43
#627 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 864
From: N-Space

Quote:
Not a problem. I know one relatively successful religion whose messiah was brutaly executed some years ago.

Someday Steve will be laid to rest (in an aluminum casket), and that will be the end of the cult of Mac. I don't think Apple will successfully transition to Steve++, whoever that may turn out to be.

Last edited by bison on 21-Apr-2011 at 09:30 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:40:29
#628 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@bison

Quote:
and that will be the end of the cult of Mac.


Cult is based on Faith, Prophet is only Messenger. Faith will find new Messenger.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:41:36
#629 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 1923
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@bison

Quote:
I don't think Apple will successfully transition to Steve++, whoever that may turn out to be.


What if Steve++ turned out to be an iClone ?

_________________
IBrowse/AWeb user? amiga.org - classic browser edition

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:42:49
#630 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@pavlor
not that easy it would seem though, when Jobs left the last time, Apple fell into oblivion (until he returned, "The Second Coming of Jobs" )

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Arko 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:46:17
#631 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Jan-2007
Posts: 1989
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
@Arko

Quote:

It was a in a code they wanted sell to Amiga Technologies, and Andy Finkel was send to Phase5 to do some code review.


Yes and? Where is the problem?


Don't know if there is a problem, you mentioned the code might be send to Phase5 by Petro and I told you the reason why that code was not send by Petro.

Quote:

But I wouldnt mind if those old people tried to actually make some sense.


Dave was always a hardware guy, building cool hardware is what he likes to do, that's the reason why he likes the Natami. His comments about AOS4 where not very positive too. In a lot of comments he talks about economic decisions this might be the reason why likes the C64 from CUSA. According to his behavior about MorphOS, maybe there where other reasons, he does not give technical reasons, he does not talk about GUI design he just said he doesn't care.

I'm more surprised why he doesn't try to participate in the Minimig project. Today's hardware design technologies with FPGA makes a lot of thing possible for hobbyists, things that where impossible for Haynie as professional hardware developer 20 years ago.

A lot of people that worked on or with the Amiga, left the scene after their projects failed, they don't want to work with the Amiga again because they went to a lot of disappointments after all this fails.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 21:59:04
#632 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote:
@DAX

Not sure about GPGPU on all hardware architectures, but CUDA on linux kicks #### plain and simple. I've used it on both linux and windows and although the tools available for windows are perhaps nicer (better integration with VS etc), raw performance is hard to beat on linux. I have no idea why it should be the case other than the fact that perhaps linux is just more efficient at dealing with high load tasks in general. I've also found it to be more stable for long running compute tasks and better at distributing load between multiple GPUs.

In fact, the Fastra II (http://fastra2.ua.ac.be/), which AFAIK is the fastest "desktop" GPGPU computer around is only made possible via Linux. It has 13 G200 class GPUs which required a custom motherboard bios just to allow them to be mapped in and they've had to modify the kernel to allow all the cards to be accessed. You won't get away with that sort of thing on Windows :)

http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/redmond/events/escience2008/matsuoka-escience2008.pdf

1 rack server has 4 gpu cards(8 GPU chips) with Windows 2008 Server.

http://www.excaliberpc.com/593085/asus-p7p55-ws-supercomputer-intel.html
5 PCI-Ex X16 slots ( 10 GPU chips) with Windows 7 support,

Recent Catayst windows 7 drivers supports >32bit address space i.e. issues with DIY ViDock.

Last edited by Hammer on 21-Apr-2011 at 10:27 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 21-Apr-2011 at 10:05 PM.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE U1 + MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Intel i7-4790K @ 4.5 Ghz, DDR3-2133 16GB RAM, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 22:11:15
#633 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 1923
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Hammer

Using just 4 graphics cards it not a problem, even for CUDA on Windows. The Fastra-II, however, has 7 cards. ASUS had to provide them with a modified BIOS in order for the hardware to even start up, let alone getting all 7 cards mapped and working in the OS. They were able to do this because linux is open enough for them to make whatever modifications they needed to low level kernel code. Good luck achieving that with closed a source OS.

Either way, I've yet to see any evidence at all that running Windows for this purpose offers any tangible benefits at all, or is even capable of reaching performance parity with linux for the same job.

It's all horses for courses. I'll happily fire up Windows for Gaming but for CUDA, it's of limited use to me. The exact same GPU kernel (same object code produced by NVCC on my machine) takes longer to run and slows down the machine on 64-bit windows than it does on my 64-bit linux install... *shrug*

_________________
IBrowse/AWeb user? amiga.org - classic browser edition

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 22:45:39
#634 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Karlos

Which 64bit Windows? there are differences with 64bit Windows.

Resource allocation issues is the same with DIY ViDock. Some BIOSs are not fully ACPI compiliant e.g ASUS G1S/G1Sn/N80VN CUDA laptops.

There a PCI address defrag boot tool that works with Windows.

The posted Asus i7 motherboard has 5 PEG slots and it's certified for Windows 7.

For each GPU chip, Windows 7 needs 256mb address window to be located beyond 32bit address space i.e drivers must support PAE 36bit.

6 GPU chip(3 cards) setup can easy exceed 1GB system address space (/3gb switch Windows mode).

PS; i only run with AMD Stream GPUs.

Last edited by Hammer on 21-Apr-2011 at 11:12 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 21-Apr-2011 at 11:05 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 21-Apr-2011 at 10:49 PM.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE U1 + MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Intel i7-4790K @ 4.5 Ghz, DDR3-2133 16GB RAM, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 23:23:34
#635 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 1923
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Hammer

Vista 64-bit, in this case, but tested with Windows 7 too, no significant improvement for me.

Quote:
PS; i only run with AMD Stream GPUs.


Boooo!!! Seriously, though, what's your poison on that one OpenCL, DirectCompute, Stream?

_________________
IBrowse/AWeb user? amiga.org - classic browser edition

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 23:25:59
#636 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote:
@DAX

Not sure about GPGPU on all hardware architectures, but CUDA on linux kicks #### plain and simple. I've used it on both linux and windows and although the tools available for windows are perhaps nicer (better integration with VS etc), raw performance is hard to beat on linux. I have no idea why it should be the case other than the fact that perhaps linux is just more efficient at dealing with high load tasks in general. I've also found it to be more stable for long running compute tasks and better at distributing load between multiple GPUs.

In fact, the Fastra II (http://fastra2.ua.ac.be/), which AFAIK is the fastest "desktop" GPGPU computer around is only made possible via Linux. It has 13 G200 class GPUs which required a custom motherboard bios just to allow them to be mapped in and they've had to modify the kernel to allow all the cards to be accessed. You won't get away with that sort of thing on Windows :)

Relative to RV770, the double float with G200 GPU is pretty slow.

Current multi-GPU PC setups are based on NV Fermi or AMD Cayman.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE U1 + MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Intel i7-4790K @ 4.5 Ghz, DDR3-2133 16GB RAM, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 23:26:48
#637 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Karlos

AMD Stream for math array benchmarks and Cyberlink PowerDirector 9. Compute Shader for graphics.

It would be interesting to see console programming on modern GPUs i.e assuming Wii 2 has a cheap fat R700 type GPU.

Anyway, AMD has stated DX gets in the way on pure performance.

Last edited by Hammer on 21-Apr-2011 at 11:40 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 21-Apr-2011 at 11:37 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 21-Apr-2011 at 11:33 PM.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE U1 + MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Intel i7-4790K @ 4.5 Ghz, DDR3-2133 16GB RAM, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 23:39:19
#638 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 1923
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Hammer

The G200 was the first nVidia GPU to add support for double precision and there aren't as many units for it as there are single precision. If you are going to use it extensively, you opt for Fermi. Finally, the only valid comparisons (as in ones that really matter) between ATI and nVidia for computational power are OpenCL or DirectCompute. There aren't any other serious compute architectures that can run on both.

_________________
IBrowse/AWeb user? amiga.org - classic browser edition

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Karlos 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 23:41:40
#639 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 1923
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Hammer

PS: For a fun traditional GPGPU (in GLSL) demonstration, you might enjoy the following site:

http://fractal.io/

You need a WebGL capable browser though. Chrome seems to work nicely.

_________________
IBrowse/AWeb user? amiga.org - classic browser edition

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 21-Apr-2011 23:49:30
#640 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@Karlos

For 64bit FP, RV770 combines two 32bit stream units. Similar trick to AVX 256bit support with two 128bit FMA units in AMD bulldozer.

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FE U1 + MS Windows 10 Pro X64
Intel i7-4790K @ 4.5 Ghz, DDR3-2133 16GB RAM, MSI GeForce GTX 980 Ti Gaming

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle