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      /  The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
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damocles 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 4-May-2011 20:41:32
#21 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@NESAssassin

C64x will begin shipping out to those who pre-ordered sooner then later. I would guess by the end of this month at the latest for the first shipments.



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damocles 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 4-May-2011 20:45:19
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@bison

Try here.

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bison 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 4-May-2011 20:47:32
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@nimrod7

Quote:
check here disney's tron partners - it's real.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for. This gives some confidence that CUSA is actually "for real" -- I don't think Disney would enter into a marketing arrangement with them if they thought they were some kind of fly-by-night outfit.

Still, my interest is limited. I don't think I need another Linux PC, since I have two already.

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nimrod7 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 4-May-2011 21:49:41
#24 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 285
From: Poland

@bison

but have you got THE sticker ? ;)

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djrikki 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 4-May-2011 22:11:20
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2077
From: Grimsby, UK

@Mods

Another Commodore USA thread under the guise of 'Amiga General Chat'.. please can you move it to the General Crap, I mean Consoles forum. Cheers.

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vox 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 0:35:21
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@NESAssassin

Long time Rasta a tell you

Now, they are just slow and buggy, as well as useless, just as facebook.
But it sounds good when ya hear the name.

x64 is realised first, but it go withoiut CommodoOS modified Linzx,
600-800$ just for cased integrated PC with low expansion and plain Ubuntu,
what a bargain, nuff for SAM board.

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Wildstar128 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 2:42:19
#27 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2006
Posts: 178
From: Unknown

Frankly guys, this Commodore USA, LLC. company is real.

The Amiga Inc. website had the news but some quirks in the news section after the new website design seems to have got lost somewhere.

As for the Commodore USA... the means and tactics to get the licensing holders attention were risky from a legal perspective but it would soon enough get their attention to the right contacts.

Commodore USA, LLC. does hold license with Amiga Inc. for the Amiga trademarks for obvious reasons. Amiga Inc. OWNS the Amiga trademarks. Commodore USA, LLC. received the trademarks from Commodore Holdings.

Bottom line: They are real. The plastic molds and stuff are under production. The molds takes time to get it right for what they wanted for the "C64" breadbox style model. There is also the "Commodore OS" under work as well.

Granted, the base hardware is modern x86 hardware. Producing new 6502 computers in this day and age is pure ridiculous and laughable in main stream markets where you are looking at 100,000+ unit runs.

So, producing PC systems makes more sense at this time. To produce a competitive 65xx or modern Amiga with competitive in price would be ridiculously expensive. The classic C= and Amiga is best served by smaller independent developer/hobbyist. There isn't a market for any serious business to serve Commodore 8-bits and classic/PPC Amiga hardware. That stuff is outdated and the market of individuals actively using the system is less then 25,000 individuals world wide (all active C= and Amiga users). Assuming at any given year, you might get only 10% of the users buying any products - do you seriously think it is viable to target this community.

So, from a business perspective, it is better to target products with contemporary hardware and build up revenue. The business is for the most part, getting of the ground and part of extensive marketing is to round up people and get the product on the market. The aim is getting things launched over the next couple months or so from what I can tell. In part, there is the production and there is the "Commodore OS".

Ideally, it would be nice to ship the "Commodore OS" with the products.

In my opinion, these machines are not intended necessarily to "replace" your original but it can surely allow you to prolong the life of your aging systems by running alot of the hard work on new hardware. There is still a need for the Jen Schonfeld's and the Jim Brain's and the various hobbyist/businesses that makes add-ons for the C= classic hardware. Commodore USA, LLC. does not want to invest a great deal of money for paid R&D (paying someone to do the R&D) for classic hardware if the R&D costs equates to 10 - 100x the revenue from sales of such products.

So, I believe it is understand that classic C= / Amiga support businesses can and will continue to engage business as usual. Where as Commodore USA... is aiming to take the C= brand past 1994/1995 with new products and new hardware, new software and bring it back into the main stream computing market. To destroy the competitors? ..... No. To be a new option in the main stream computer options and pick up a share of the market... yes.

I have talked with folks directly and they seem to be pretty decent folks.

Sure, there is contentions with use of x86 among some Amiga members and some Commodore 8-bit folks. Sure but in the mainstream, x86 is king. The market and resources are not there to build a new semiconductor platform at this time and the market condition is not there. So tip the market into a more favorable condition and build the business to be able to tackle such options is key. You can't get from A to Z without the steps in between.

I hope it is understandable when looking at things with some sense of reality, there is no way at this moment to engineer some super duper 6502 or 68K/PPC that runs at 4 GHz with 256 cores without some significant expenses when you are still a small company. Commodore USA, LLC. is still relatively small. They are no Dell or such. At least at this time. They do got some good marketing folks, and some financial venture backers and such that can give them jump start but it will take some time to get the ball rolling and more exciting things can happen but lets not be too harsh.

I'm actually curious with this. I think the honest answer is, if you are looking for accessories for your Amiga - talk to Jens Schoenfeld and folks like him. Commodore is focusing on bring the brand back onto the computing mainstream. You can't stay stuck in 1994 and become a player in the mainstream computer industry of 2011-2020+ and yet be taken seriously.

Getting the brand and company onto some steady growth in the mainstream would be important factors without being too hinged or hung in the 1990s. So the approach if done right could be a marketing masterpiece to kickstart the company and get the ball rolling.

The success of the C64 and to a certain degree the Amiga could have been a part of the problem for Commodore to begin with. To shake off the 1982 Commodore 64 & the classic Amiga and sell new products. A victim of its own success combined with unbelievably.... _________________ management.

So, lets be fair about them.

I am not saying you need to buy anything from them. There needs to be some state of juncture and get the Commodore business on stable ground.

Surely, I could build my own PCs and stick emulators and C= logo stickers on it. Would I consider buying the new products.... perhaps. I do have my original Commodore 64 and my original Amiga 500s and Amiga 1200.



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redrumloa 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 3:25:29
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@wiininja

I'd recommend waiting more than a few weeks before complaining about non-delivery.
I hate pre-orders as much as the next guy but the crowd you are preaching to have historically waiting in the ballpark of years after pre-ordering.

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amigang 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 8:50:25
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 2018
From: Cheshire, England

@Wildstar128

(nearly did'nt post because I know it bumps the topic back to the top, sorry guys, but)

Quote:
I hope it is understandable when looking at things with some sense of reality, there is no way at this moment to engineer some super duper 6502 or 68K/PPC that runs at 4 GHz with 256 cores without some significant expenses when you are still a small company. Commodore USA, LLC. is still relatively small. They are no Dell or such. At least at this time.


Have you heard of a smaller company than C=USA called A-Eon Technology? Or a Community effort project named Natami? Or even the mini mig which is out and you can buy for around £100.

To be honest I completely understand what your saying these projects are aimed at different people/market, AmigaONE X1000 aimed at AmigaOS fans (1,000 to 5,000 market?), Natami is aimed at classic Amiga fans (5,000 to 15,000 market?) and C64x is aimed at retro gamer fans (25,000 to 150,000?), and the retro gaming fans are the biggest market and so you need to be able to mass produce products but saying custom hardware and tech cant be done, it obsessively can be on much smaller budgets than what C=USA must have (judging by their Disney advert) just a hell of lot riskier and more expensive just like the C64x cases are to produce, they could of gone the simple root and got an off the shelve PC box and called it Commodore 64 (a bit like that Web.it guys did http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/c64web.html )but they haven't and actually gone though the effort of re-producing the C64x case which I commend them for, but I have no interest in C64 or whats inside, I was a speccy guy in that era and I already have a PC, so my interest is the Amiga side but the Amiga system they have advertising are just plain lazy and any one who know how to build a PC could get the parts and build them then selves.

So apart from the custom cases (and maybe one day we will see the 'dream amiga' case get made) the actual computer inside and the OS doesn't interest me, and the problem is they where advertising them self to this Market as the saviors of the Amiga and the only true new Amiga with Workbench 5 will be coming from them. This did not go down well with me and a lot of other people in the community when it just a simple pc running linux that maybe will be in a nice case one day. If they just spoke to the community with more respect to the pre-existing market they would not get as much bashing as they are doing by some.

Last edited by amigang on 05-May-2011 at 08:51 AM.

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DAX 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 9:38:16
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Wildstar128
You talk about resurrecting the Commodore brand, and I don't think the community here feels any particular "need" for it (per se).

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vox 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 12:04:58
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@Wildstar128

a) Nothing new, everything you can do on any single core P4 if you know how

b) Exploting nostalgia. CommodoOS is not only late, but as well most unknown
Linux modification and distro, as well as it seems it will not be freely downloadable

c) No they are not decent folks, there are several threat letters to OS.news, AROS community as well as I can document personal threat letter by their CEO
They are very agressive, inpolite and disrispecting to what they abuse

They are decent to you because you come as potential customer. But in those terms they are too expensive, unexpandable and shipping without Windows which equals suicide in PC world. Even without that all, they are also expensive even performance ratio is good, like most decently assambled PCs.

d) They promised C64 and A1200 cases for all, but none is avail or announced,
which would be only decent thing from them

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damocles 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 12:26:11
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
a) Nothing new, everything you can do on any single core P4 if you know how


Minimum spec is dual core Atom. Amiga's will be i5/i7 series.

Quote:
b) Exploting nostalgia. CommodoOS is not only late, but as well most unknown Linux modification and distro, as well as it seems it will not be freely downloadable


1.0 probably won't be too much to write home about. 2.0 (whatever that turns out to be) is where things get interesting. No, it won't be free downloadable, there are licensing issues that will prevent that.

Quote:
c) No they are not decent folks, there are several threat letters to OS.news, AROS community as well as I can document personal threat letter by their CEO They are very agressive, inpolite and disrispecting to what they abuse


Barry can be combative, no doubt about that. Especially when he is getting attacked.

Quote:
d) They promised C64 and A1200 cases for all, but none is avail or announced, which would be only decent thing from them


Did you not read my post? C64x's Mold #1 (first out of three) was just finished this week. Production line should be starting very soon, at 1,200 units @ day. I haven't heard much on Yoz's A500x's design lately, I think they had him go back and tweak his initial submission to them.

So sit back and relax, things are progressing for ramping up the C64x's production line to begin to fill all those pre-orders.

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vox 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 13:23:42
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3731
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@damocles

If I discuss this a little bit more,
I will again be resctricted for 30 days.

Linux based OSs are free, except for Chinese gov ones (but I got one
just in case) and modifications, how big they will be?

Is there a roadmap for 1.0 and 2.0? Realise date?
Support plan? Development team?

And yet you dare to call AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS shady ...

Amiga Forever 2011 for 20 euros and AROS blow CommodoOS away at this time.
Even in availiablity if x86 we speak about.

All machines by CUSA are better quality then VIA probably,
but yet laptop specs no matter how fancy Intel blows em.

And if you wish to speak x86, going without Winblows or MacOS X is quite a suicide. Its for cheap computers people installed cracked things to, and this one aint cheap.

Now, you continue to defend em and I will remain silent and
not attacked the dear stoned CEO.

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damocles 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 13:40:35
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
Linux based OSs are free, except for Chinese gov ones (but I got one just in case) and modifications, how big they will be?


It's about licensing issues, not size issues. There will be closed sourced code included in the OS that can not be released as a distro. The open source code will be downloadable as per licensing requirements, COS as a distro will not be. Think OS-X which is based on BSD/Mach code is not freely downloadable either.

Quote:
s there a roadmap for 1.0 and 2.0? Realise date? Support plan? Development team?


Support will be at least for the initial Ubuntu release, live 24/7. What they are planning for support (most likely live 24/7) has not been announced. Roadmap for 2.0 has not been released at this point in time.

Quote:
And yet you dare to call AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS shady ...


I did? I'm calling you out on that one Vox, show me where I said such a thing, or apologize to me.

Quote:
Amiga Forever 2011 for 20 euros and AROS blow CommodoOS away at this time.


How odd, it hasn't been released yet or even screen grabs yet you damn it. Why don't you post some benchmarks on it and show us how bad it is. Oh wait, you can't.

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pavlor 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 13:52:50
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9578
From: Unknown

@damocles

Quote:
There will be closed sourced code included in the OS that can not be released as a distro.


You can not-include source code of respective closed-source applications and then release your OS for download. Or there is another problem?

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_ThEcRoW 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 14:08:16
#36 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 834
From: Murcia (Spain)

@djrikki

If you don't like it, why do you read in?.

@vox

WTF is CommodoOS?. Last time i heard the name was Commodore.

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damocles 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 14:13:33
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
You can not-include source code of respective closed-source applications and then release your OS for download. Or there is another problem?


It's not me, it's C=USA. Open source code will have to be made available as per different open source licenses requirements to those who own the C= systems. Since COS has closed source (binary) code, it will not be a distro and therefore not freely downloadable.

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damocles 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 14:21:40
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

BTW, I just saw the raw video of the pre-production run of the bottom mold (top mold was finished last week). C=USA will be editing the videos and adding music to it. Next week is going to be a fun week for C=USA.

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AmigaHeretic 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 15:00:16
#39 ]
Super Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 1697
From: Oregon

@damocles
Quote:

Quote:
And yet you dare to call AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS shady ...


I did? I'm calling you out on that one Vox, show me where I said such a thing, or apologize to me.



Too funny! Ok, Damster I have nothing against you personally, but seriously, I think a simple link to moobunny would pretty much cover that claim Come one dude! That's pretty much your OS4 bashing home away from home.

Let's try a little experiment. Go over to the front page and stop for a second. Without even searching, just look for a title that has something OS4 related. OK, first link scanning from top I see one that has the word X1000 in it. Click short view and look for Dammy. Alright, here we go 30 seconds later I have OS4 project bashing. Not OS4 directly I admit, but this is on the front page this moment as you posted that man. Really? Two completely different OS4 projects at that! In one thread!

Quote:
Impressive if they can afford to spend 30K+ EUROs on free Dev gear and still expect to make a reasonable ROI on a low volume sales. Guess that means the markup on the SAM460 mobos is something to behold.

Dammy


Quote:
He might be right, the longer the A1X1K takes to be released, the more laughing I may be doing when it is released.

Dammy

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damocles 
Re: The new Commodore from USA is no more now soon?
Posted on 5-May-2011 15:19:54
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@AmigaHeretic

Quote:
Too funny! Ok, Damster I have nothing against you personally, but seriously, I think a simple link to moobunny would pretty much cover that claim Come one dude! That's pretty much your OS4 bashing home away from home.


Let us reread what Vox posted: Quote:
And yet you dare to call AmigaOS, MorphOS, AROS shady ...


Lets see here, he said I was calling AmigaOS (which would be from 1.x-4.x), MOS, and AROS shady. Where have I ever said "Shady" about AOS/MOS/AROS? Can you link that please? Or three individual posts that I specifically call AOS/MOS/AROS shady? You can't, because I didn't.

Quote:
Let's try a little experiment. Go over to the front page and stop for a second. Without even searching, just look for a title that has something OS4 related. OK, first link scanning from top I see one that has the word X1000 in it. Click short view and look for Dammy. Alright, here we go 30 seconds later I have OS4 project bashing. Not OS4 directly I admit, but this is on the front page this moment as you posted that man. Really? Two completely different OS4 projects at that! In one thread!


Ah, you are confusing OS4 (it's an operating system), with hardware projects. Amiga OS (gee, that includes 1.x, 2.x, 3.x, and then 4.x) is not hardware. OS4 has been ported to AmigaOne, SAM 440/460, Peg2, and PPC accelerator for 68K Amigas, where have I called all those shady? I typically do not use the word, "shady" all the much in my post so it should be very easy for you to find quotes, right?

In conclusion, the A1X1K is not AmigaOS. It may run AmigaOS4, but it's not an operating system but a specific hardware platform.

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