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PosterThread
Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 15:48:04
#1081 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
Given that you are in your 50's and probably have poor eyesight, can you show me this motor you speak of? In the video, the magnets and the battery are not spinning.
First just let me get my glasses on and take a look at the video again.
You may not realise this but electric motors generally come in two parts. The stator (remains static), and the rotor (it rotates!).
In this particular example the magnet and battery, as you point out do in fact remain stationary, but the outer section does seem to quite clearly rotate.
Since this motor has a fixed core, and a rotating outer section, it qualifies as a drum motor

I see the top of a battery with a dibit in it to rest the point of the screw. I don't see any other moving parts. I assume you are trying to say the video is a fake and that it's a disguised drum motor. What you have here is a theory...which you can test yourself: http://www.duramag.com/neodymium-sizes.html

I don't see how a drum motor could put enough frictional force on the point of a screw to turn that contraption. The video is there, now disprove it.

Quote:

Quote:
Perhaps you didn't pay attention in geology class but the earth is not a solid rock.
You're right, I didn't concentrate on geology, I was too busy studying EM theory, which is why I know what I am talking about when discussing how motors work, and why the Earths magnetic pole would be at, or perpendicular to the spin axis if your idea had any credibility.

If I need to know anything about rocks I can always ask T-J. If you look back over his posts you will see that he knows more than a little bit about geology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Earth
It's not rocket science, you know.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 17:33:42
#1082 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
Yes we have rockets, just like we have canoes. What we need to get to is the speed boat of space...
And through science it's how we've built both and continue to build and improve both. The Speed Boat of Space is even postulated in science. So certainly if you believe in your system you might understand it's importance by it's contribution. Build that 'speed boat' first on your principles you'd have some compelling demonstrable evidence there.

Quote:
I tried to offer you a possible big-banging explanation, then you say I'm wrong for it.
The problem is within your logic. A possibility is not the same as an actuality. Possibility is a postulate. If it's wrong it's because that postulate failed to accurately predict reality. You have to go back to the drawing board and figure out where your error existed. Learn!

Quote:
So what you're saying is you can't prove me wrong but I can prove you wrong. Gotcha!
It seems you're starting to understand you've built an unfalsifiable system. The next step is to understand an unfalsifiable system does mean it's true. There is the 3rd option, and where your system is, that it's unproven. What results here is your system is acceptable on faith similar to the 'religious kooks', as you called them.

Quote:
Perhaps you are getting confused with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor
The problem isn't my confusion. It's the presenter's. Either he's unknowledgeable of what makes a motor or is lying. Either way he's wrong. He built a motor.

Flipping back to your belief that this is how the solar system works. Nimrod posed a good question. In actuality an observation that conflicts with the 'It's all EM' belief. For a more significant one look at Uranus which spins sideways. About 60 degrees off from the magnetic pole and perpendictular to the direction of travel. There are many more of these in our solar system. Mars and Venus have unstructured fields, as such shouldn't be spinning. And if your claim of larger objects having larger fields is true the solar system would be lined up by size of the objects. It's clearly not else the asteroids would all be hanging out by the sun and Jupiter would be the furthest object. Planets aren't the same plane. Planets orbit a baryocentric point by mass which is different than the magnetic center point.

Certainly Gravity was wrong as Newton's view would have burned up Mercury. Einstein is better as Mercury exists but that quantum just isn't fitted in. The solar system errors in Netwon, while planet sized , are far smaller and less numerous than using EM for the explaination. We know there's work to do and science continues.

Quote:
The dishes I brought were too exotic for you....clearly
Being an open party I clearly let you introduce their prettiness for all to observe. The plates are lovely. Though when it was time to eat the air sitting on them fulfilled no one. So we keep them for a future party when you might bring food to place on the dishes.

I seriously think you like to hear yourself talk...or type in this case...
Newton, and the like, took come measurements and posulated a formula that works "close enough" for the most part. And he gave it a name. Big freaking deal. It fails when looking at other stars. Local phenomenon is not equal to universal phenomenon. Einstein's initial one was slightly better but even HE ADMITTED it wasn't perfect, just better, hence his quest for unification. With new evidence of other stars, the local calculations of local phenomenon do not adhere across the universe. Basically, the not-so-constant 'big G' changes depending on which star system you are looking at.

You seem to be happy settling for 'the best we have' and wasting money searching for a particle that doesn't exist within a flawed paradigm...

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 17:50:23
#1083 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IETeIi6Zuzs

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 17:57:15
#1084 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
It's not rocket science, you know
Though it's far from mundane.
New Metallic State postulated to be at the center of the earth.

Quote:
You seem to be happy settling for 'the best we have' and wasting money searching for a particle that doesn't exist within a flawed paradigm...
Yes, yes we've seen your defense of your view of the universe. It's mischaracterize the opposition and claim that you win by default. When what you claim is demonstrable give us a call. We'll be waiting and open as always to hear your evidence. Until you can evidence your conclusions are built on biased and unsupported opinion and completely unable to be judged for their relation to truth.

The claim that a motor isn't really a motor is but one laughable example. Man that sodapop bubbles a long time in one's nasal cavity.

Last edited by BrianK on 21-Dec-2011 at 05:58 PM.

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Nimrod 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 18:37:09
#1085 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
I don't see any other moving parts.
Well somebody had better get their eyes tested. In the video (at 22 sec) the presenter introduces the device as "Magnetic vortex spinner" so I can assume that at some point there will be a moving or even possibly a spinning part.
At 54 sec the presenter introduces a part made from 2 lengths of copper sheet fixed together using a screw and nut. At 1m05s the phrase "I'm going to put it over the battery, and it's going to spin real fast" can be clearly heard. At 1m24s he takes his hand away and the copper part (the outer section of the motor) clearly starts to spin. Since it is the outer section (the copper strips) that rotates around the inner stator the motor is, by definition, a drum motor.

Quote:
I assume you are trying to say the video is a fake and that it's a disguised drum motor.
While I will accept the theoretical possibility that this video has been faked I can see no evidence to support that statement. All I can see is a very good example of somebody demonstrating the operation of a simplified permanent magnet motor, without using wires. The electrical circuit starts at the positive terminal of the battery, through the point of the screw, through the copper strips to the sides of the magnet, and from there to the base of the battery. I would recommend this open frame motor construction to any teacher wanting to demonstrate electromotive forces to a class of students for very little cost.

Quote:
It's not rocket science, you know.
Well I read the article that you linked to and you are correct. No ballistics there at all.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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Nimrod 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 18:56:19
#1086 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@BrianK
Quote:

@Lou

Quote:
It's not rocket science, you know
Though it's far from mundane.
New Metallic State postulated to be at the center of the earth.
Hmmm... Strictly speaking you couldn't be more wrong since mundane means "of this world"

But since it can also be used meaning humdrum or boring I will let you get away with it

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:11:07
#1087 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
It's not rocket science, you know
Though it's far from mundane.
New Metallic State postulated to be at the center of the earth.

Quote:
You seem to be happy settling for 'the best we have' and wasting money searching for a particle that doesn't exist within a flawed paradigm...
Yes, yes we've seen your defense of your view of the universe. It's mischaracterize the opposition and claim that you win by default. When what you claim is demonstrable give us a call. We'll be waiting and open as always to hear your evidence. Until you can evidence your conclusions are built on biased and unsupported opinion and completely unable to be judged for their relation to truth.

Great. I'll do that and you can continue to believe in things like Santa Claus simply because you find presents under your tree every year.

Quote:
The claim that a motor isn't really a motor is but one laughable example. Man that sodapop bubbles a long time in one's nasal cavity.

This is a classic case of the dis-informer putting words in my mouth. It's advertised as a magnertic vortex spinner. You and Nimrod are attempting to label it as something else based off it's 'apparent' function and not it's actual design. You show your true colors here.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:14:31
#1088 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Nimrod

Quote:
Hmmm... Strictly speaking you couldn't be more wrong since mundane means "of this world"
Clearly the problem is your limited box. Afterall aliens came and inserted the special metal core. They knew this would grow the wheat they love to stomp and cows to explode.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:24:18
#1089 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
I don't see any other moving parts.
Well somebody had better get their eyes tested. In the video (at 22 sec) the presenter introduces the device as "Magnetic vortex spinner" so I can assume that at some point there will be a moving or even possibly a spinning part.
At 54 sec the presenter introduces a part made from 2 lengths of copper sheet fixed together using a screw and nut. At 1m05s the phrase "I'm going to put it over the battery, and it's going to spin real fast" can be clearly heard. At 1m24s he takes his hand away and the copper part (the outer section of the motor) clearly starts to spin. Since it is the outer section (the copper strips) that rotates around the inner stator the motor is, by definition, a drum motor.

There is no physical motor that I can see. So just because the outer section spins, doesn't make it a drum motor "by design" or otherwise.

Quote:

Quote:
I assume you are trying to say the video is a fake and that it's a disguised drum motor.
While I will accept the theoretical possibility that this video has been faked I can see no evidence to support that statement. All I can see is a very good example of somebody demonstrating the operation of a simplified permanent magnet motor, without using wires. The electrical circuit starts at the positive terminal of the battery, through the point of the screw, through the copper strips to the sides of the magnet, and from there to the base of the battery. I would recommend this open frame motor construction to any teacher wanting to demonstrate electromotive forces to a class of students for very little cost.

So now it's an "open frame motor". Please make up your mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poynting_vector

Last edited by Lou on 21-Dec-2011 at 07:25 PM.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:31:02
#1090 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Nimrod

Quote:
Hmmm... Strictly speaking you couldn't be more wrong since mundane means "of this world"
Clearly the problem is your limited box. Afterall aliens came and inserted the special metal core. They knew this would grow the wheat they love to stomp and cows to explode.

Clearly his is as is yours...

For instance, why and how would prehistoric man haul stones over 150 miles?
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112443648/researchers-confirm-origin-of-stonehenge-rocks/

I'm sure your answer will be "because he felt like it" just like they felt like buring cities with the same shovel Santa Claus loads all the toys in his sack with... Yes, this is the 'magic shovel' theory of mainstream science.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:32:18
#1091 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Interesting example you make. As a kid I too went in for the evidence. The result was Dad and the packages got all wet from the tripwire trap I made.

Quote:
It's advertised as a magnertic vortex spinner
47 seconds the presenter claims it's not a motor. So no this isn't disinformation - it's you not listening to your own 'evidence'. And as it turns out the actual design creates a machine that converts energy into motion. That is definitionally a motor.

What the 'true colors' demonstrate is that this kerfluffel is due to your semantic games to avoid the mundane. The video fails to demonstrate it's own conclusions at the end claiming to be atomic spins. It fails to back up it's claim that science just doesn't know this. All this video shows is how ignorant the presenter is of scientific definitions.

Going on to your past proven false EM pushes the planets statement. Repeating a claim is repeating a postulate and has gotten your theory no where but in further disrupte because you refuse to take time to support your conclusions with improved quantitative or qualitative evidence. Why not try it again when you have superior evidence to the current available evidence that it clearly is not true?

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 19:42:36
#1092 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
For instance, why and how would prehistoric man haul stones over 150 miles?
Same question to you.. Why and how would prehistoric aliens drive millions of light years to haul stones 150 miles, leave no trace, then fly home again? I'm sure your answer ill be 'because they felt like it' just like they felt like driving back to cover a city in dust.

What you are doing is failing to understand natural planetary forces that have done things like covered cities in dust, for an easy example Pompeii, and instead claiming that 'aliens bring their own magic shovels' to planets millions of light years from their home.

Why do aliens drive millions of light years to move rocks, cover cities in dirt, smash wheat, explode cows, and anal probe farmers? 'Because he felt like it'.


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Nimrod 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 21:28:08
#1093 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
There is no physical motor that I can see. So just because the outer section spins, doesn't make it a drum motor "by design" or otherwise.
Electrical energy as supplied by the battery interacts with a magnetic field supplied by the permanent magnet when the completion of the circuit causes current to flow. This interaction causes electrical energy to be converted to mechanical movement. That makes this device a motor. Just because the motor is quickly and cheaply built at home does not make it any less a motor.

Because the outer part is open, and allows the inner part to be seen it is an open frame motor.

Because the outer part is free to rotate around the inner fixed section it is a drum motor

Because it has permanent a magnet to generate the magnetic field rather than using coils, it is a permanent magnet motor.

Because its electrical supply is from a battery rather than AC mains powered, it is a DC motor.

Since none of these terms are mutually exclusive its boolean state allows AND to be used rather than OR. therefore it is open frame AND DC AND permanent magnet AND drum.
It is an open frame, permanent magnet, DC, drum motor. It will remain an open frame, permanent magnet, DC, drum motor no matter how long you close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and go LALALA. or however long the person demonstrating it calls it a "magnetic vortex spinner"


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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 15:28:26
#1094 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

47 seconds the presenter claims it's not a motor. So no this isn't disinformation - it's you not listening to your own 'evidence'. And as it turns out the actual design creates a machine that converts energy into motion. That is definitionally a motor.
What the 'true colors' demonstrate is that this kerfluffel is due to your semantic games to avoid the mundane. The video fails to demonstrate it's own conclusions at the end claiming to be atomic spins. It fails to back up it's claim that science just doesn't know this. All this video shows is how ignorant the presenter is of scientific definitions.

Going on to your past proven false EM pushes the planets statement. Repeating a claim is repeating a postulate and has gotten your theory no where but in further disrupte because you refuse to take time to support your conclusions with improved quantitative or qualitative evidence. Why not try it again when you have superior evidence to the current available evidence that it clearly is not true?

By that definition of motor, you can say anything that is metallic and flies is a plane.
This is simply more of your quest for the mundane.

The devil's in the details, can you tell me how 2 magnets and a battery convert energy into motion based on your accepted view of magnetic fields?

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 15:30:48
#1095 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
There is no physical motor that I can see. So just because the outer section spins, doesn't make it a drum motor "by design" or otherwise.
Electrical energy as supplied by the battery interacts with a magnetic field supplied by the permanent magnet when the completion of the circuit causes current to flow. This interaction causes electrical energy to be converted to mechanical movement. That makes this device a motor. Just because the motor is quickly and cheaply built at home does not make it any less a motor.

Because the outer part is open, and allows the inner part to be seen it is an open frame motor.

Because the outer part is free to rotate around the inner fixed section it is a drum motor

Because it has permanent a magnet to generate the magnetic field rather than using coils, it is a permanent magnet motor.

Because its electrical supply is from a battery rather than AC mains powered, it is a DC motor.

Since none of these terms are mutually exclusive its boolean state allows AND to be used rather than OR. therefore it is open frame AND DC AND permanent magnet AND drum.
It is an open frame, permanent magnet, DC, drum motor. It will remain an open frame, permanent magnet, DC, drum motor no matter how long you close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and go LALALA. or however long the person demonstrating it calls it a "magnetic vortex spinner"

What you haven't told me is what actually causes the spin, mr. engineer, sir.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 15:41:35
#1096 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
By that definition of motor, you can say anything that is metallic and flies is a plane.
Again Lou more silliness? I can't help the established definitional terms used in science or society. One can call something whatever they want. But, if you are talking to others in society it really helps to use the accepted terms and definitions.

Quote:
can you tell me how 2 magnets and a battery convert energy into motion based on your accepted view of magnetic fields?
This may help you How Motors Work and if you want more details Faraday's Law of Electromagetic Induction . Again to highlight the presenter's comment 'science just doesn't know this' is a complete lie.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 15:48:02
#1097 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
For instance, why and how would prehistoric man haul stones over 150 miles?
Same question to you.. Why and how would prehistoric aliens drive millions of light years to haul stones 150 miles, leave no trace, then fly home again? I'm sure your answer ill be 'because they felt like it' just like they felt like driving back to cover a city in dust.

What you are doing is failing to understand natural planetary forces that have done things like covered cities in dust, for an easy example Pompeii, and instead claiming that 'aliens bring their own magic shovels' to planets millions of light years from their home.

Why do aliens drive millions of light years to move rocks, cover cities in dirt, smash wheat, explode cows, and anal probe farmers? 'Because he felt like it'.

If you want my opinion on why aliens would build stonehenge? It's rather simple. It was probably a landing structure for a ufo that can only be entered from it's underside. Years later, primitive man used it for sacrifices because it was already there.

You are also being quite assenine about your other comments:

It was T-J that alluded to ancient man having magic shovels that could bury entire cities, where as I said it was global flooding that left sediment when the waters receded as an ice age began.
The livestock have been laser cut but your eternal quest for the mundane equates that to exploding cattle...because clearly in your box, aliens don't eat...
I also love how you belittle the abduction phenomenon that has been documented since the 60's by many a phycologist...

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 16:26:27
#1098 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
By that definition of motor, you can say anything that is metallic and flies is a plane.
Again Lou more silliness? I can't help the established definitional terms used in science or society. One can call something whatever they want. But, if you are talking to others in society it really helps to use the accepted terms and definitions.

Quote:
can you tell me how 2 magnets and a battery convert energy into motion based on your accepted view of magnetic fields?
This may help you How Motors Work and if you want more details Faraday's Law of Electromagetic Induction . Again to highlight the presenter's comment 'science just doesn't know this' is a complete lie.

I'm actually amazed that you can post those links and then fail to comprehend the difference from the video I posted.

I now see why you fail to accept GEM, you are simply clueless to the concepts.
Faraday's Laws describe magnets in motion...and if you read the wiki you linked, doesn't work well in all conditions, which means like gravity, it's just a 'good enough' observation for the most part.

If you actually followed your 'how stuff works' link you'd see that the video I posted is missing many of the parts required to make an induction motor, primarily, the spinning magnet and a mechanism for changing its polarity...not to mention an axle attached to said polarity switching spinning magnet.

This is akin to a caveman looking at a plane and thinking its a bird.

Your evidence is fail.

Last edited by Lou on 22-Dec-2011 at 04:29 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 16:26:45
#1099 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
If you want my opinion on why aliens would build stonehenge?
This is a postulate. Aliens is a postulate of an unknown entity using unknown technology for unknown reasons. You can't begin to demonstrate it. Also it comes with the thought that earlier generations of people were too stupid to do this on their own. While people did it is also a postulate we have a possible known entitiy using known technology, though for unknown reasons. While we likely will never know why we can demonstrate a possible how.

If you want fanciful... Many cultures around the world have documented dragons. And clearly at a rate much higher than that of aliens. Perhaps dragons moved the stones to create a small play pen area for baby dragons. This would allow Mommy dragons to go hunting for food. Years later, primitive man used it for sacrifices because it was already there. The question, no need to answer, is how you select between the fanciful. Both dragons and aliens are unknown entities, using unknown means, for unknown reasons.

Quote:
You are also being quite assenine about your other comments:
Your writings indicate that you feel ''because they felt like it' is an unaccept reason for man to act. As such you interject Little Green Men. It appears you don't understand that ''because they felt like it' is just as applicable and worse because you know have an unknownable agent. Your argument is using the same logic as those you label as religious kooks. So why not angels instead of aliens or instead of dragons?

And the abduction phenomenon has ZERO credible evidence. Same goes for exploding cows. Both are arguments from ignorance and therefore deserve to be belittled. "It’s surprising more of the neighbors haven’t noticed." -- Carl Sagan.

Last edited by BrianK on 22-Dec-2011 at 04:28 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 16:53:22
#1100 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
I'm actually amazed that you can post those links and then fail to comprehend the difference from the video I posted.
That's because there are none.

Quote:
an induction motor, primarily, the spinning magnet
There is no definitional requirement that the magnets must be spinning.

I think this may be a fairly easy experiment for you to conduct and perhaps give you an understanding of what's going on here.
... Go buy a toy helicopter that uses a motor to spin the top blades. Put in the batteries and turn it on. Hold the helicopter by the body. You'll see the magnets spinning and the blade spinning. -- Clearly a motor by your definition (and science).
... Now change nothing about that toy. Instead change how you hold it. Hold the prop in your hand. The magnets stay still. The body of the motor still spins. And because this motor is attached to the body of the helicopter the helicopter spins. -- By your definition you no longer have a motor because the magnets are stationary. Though science says this is still a motor.

As you see your arguement is not one of knowledge of the system. It's a semantic defintional argument. You, and the video producer, are defining motor in a different manner than the scientifically accepted definition. Not a postulate not a theory a definition. This is the video, and your, fail.

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