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PosterThread
Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 4-Nov-2011 18:35:51
#881 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

You should watch the youtube series: The Big Bang Never Happened

Not to mention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zixnWeE8A

Last edited by Lou on 04-Nov-2011 at 07:51 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 8-Nov-2011 15:24:43
#882 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Here's a new finding of a lost city. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45198719/ns/technology_and_science-science/

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 8-Nov-2011 15:45:27
#883 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-launching-probe-sample-mars-moon-phobos-today-122806425.html

I wonder if this one will get shot down too...

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 8-Nov-2011 15:51:06
#884 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Here's a new finding of a lost city. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45198719/ns/technology_and_science-science/


Quote:
built by a little-known ancient civilization called the Garamantes, whose lifestyle and culture was far more advanced and historically significant than ancient sources had suggested.


[bs]This is direct evidence that everyone from ancient times had a side-job of city-burier on their resume.[/bs]
I mean really, who didn't live back then and didn't like burying cities. It was the chic thing to do apparently.

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 8-Nov-2011 17:16:38
#885 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
I mean really, who didn't live back then and didn't like burying cities
You mean besides Father Time?

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 8-Nov-2011 18:09:07
#886 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
I mean really, who didn't live back then and didn't like burying cities
You mean besides Father Time?

I guess Father Time lacked brooms...where as Father Great f'in Flood has really big shovels...

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 8-Nov-2011 18:56:12
#887 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
I guess Father Time lacked brooms...where as Father Great f'in Flood has really big shovels...
Flooding is indeed one of several items that change the face of the planet. But, not the only.

Big Bang? -- As with all science it's the best theory we have with the available evidence. As more evidence comes to light it fits, or doesn't, the model. If it doesn't fit then thing change. Such is the nature of science. Baby steps through time explaining more and more evidence. Physics knows this as it continues to work on multiple possible scenarios for time zero. If this is a multiverse poses an interesting question as to what might have come before our time zero for what we consider 'the universe'.

This also goes to how does it all end? The Big Collapse, the Big Bounce, the Big Rip? All interesting questions that science says we're working to build the evidence and doing our best to explain it. Perhaps we can or perhaps we're like dogs. Dogs can't solve Calculus Equations but that doesn't mean Calculus is non-existent.

All this still doesn't change that science is the best method we have to discover what this timy-wimy stuff is.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 8-Nov-2011 19:12:53
#888 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
I guess Father Time lacked brooms...where as Father Great f'in Flood has really big shovels...
Flooding is indeed one of several items that change the face of the planet. But, not the only.

Big Bang? -- As with all science it's the best theory we have with the available evidence. As more evidence comes to light it fits, or doesn't, the model. If it doesn't fit then thing change. Such is the nature of science. Baby steps through time explaining more and more evidence. Physics knows this as it continues to work on multiple possible scenarios for time zero. If this is a multiverse poses an interesting question as to what might have come before our time zero for what we consider 'the universe'.

This also goes to how does it all end? The Big Collapse, the Big Bounce, the Big Rip? All interesting questions that science says we're working to build the evidence and doing our best to explain it. Perhaps we can or perhaps we're like dogs. Dogs can't solve Calculus Equations but that doesn't mean Calculus is non-existent.

All this still doesn't change that science is the best method we have to discover what this timy-wimy stuff is.

The Big Bang Never Happened!

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 9-Nov-2011 19:46:33
#889 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
The Big Bang Never Happened!
Didn't know much about Halton Arp. So thanks. Called a high school friend whose PhD is astrophysics. We talked quite a bit about this subject.

On the item for Halton Arp it appears that present Hubble images have negated a majority of Halton's issues. The newer evidence demonstrated that the problem Halton found had an answer. The answer was resolution based. For example, the Face on Mars which many claimed to be an alien construct was found to clearly not be an alien construct due to different angle images and images of improved resolution. Similarily improved resolution from Hubble gave more accurate and improved data which when analyzed for the same objects doesn't support Arp's conclusions. The passing of time and improvements by man, using science btw, have provided ever more detailed observations of our universe. This is from the Macro (galaxies lightyears aways) to the Micro (components of components of an atom). With new and improved data thusly we have new and improved science.

My statement still stands. While the Big Bang is the most widely accepted Theory there clearly is some data that's not quite fitting right. It might result in a rejection OR a modification of the Big Bang. Saying which is nothing more than a leap of faith in our abilities to prognosticate the future. Science is still the best method we have to figure it out.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Nov-2011 at 07:46 PM.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 9-Nov-2011 20:35:32
#890 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

In the electric universe theory, things that disprove the big bang are natural effects of the electric universe. We also now have proof by what happens with comets when we sent a missile with a camera to one.
The electric universe doesn't need 'dark' anything to be right.

Gravity has already been explained away electrically by Brandenburg and others.

The electric universe theory actually began in the late 1800's but Einstein popularized Relativity but even he felt it was incomplete which is why he went on to pursue unification. So even Einstein knew Relativity was not right.

Billions are spent chasing mythical bosons and virtual matter. Who are the cracks who believe in this stuff? You might as well throw in the tooth fairy as well..

There is plenty of evidence against the Big Bang. The creationists, like some unmentionables in this thread, keep promoting it and inventing things thru apparently 'dark' magic to make it seem right.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 9-Nov-2011 20:38:26
#891 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote:
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-launching-probe-sample-mars-moon-phobos-today-122806425.html

I wonder if this one will get shot down too...

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/11/russias-phobos-grunt-mars-probe-stranded-in-earth-orbit.ars

Imagine that... Almost like someone doesn't want us discovering that it's an artificial satellite...

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 9-Nov-2011 21:59:12
#892 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
In the electric universe theory, things that disprove the big bang are natural effects of the electric universe
Properties of an unproven system are fairly easy to claim, and are surprisingly flexible. Evidence is the next big step. (Remember that invisible room temperature fire breathing dragon needs to demonstrated to exist for acceptance.) And of course we could postulate an electric universe with a 'Big Bang'.

Quote:
Billions are spent chasing mythical bosons and virtual matter. Who are the cracks who believe in this stuff? You might as well throw in the tooth fairy as well..
Jumping to these things don't exist and are a waste is an opinion that's unsupported. That's why one needs experimentation, observation, and evidence. Each experiment, even if a failure, is a learning experience in science.

Getting back to the Halton Arp statements in the 'Big Bang never happened' -- It appears newer evidence doesn't support Arp's theories. Good guess Halton, evidence is against you, but keep working.

Oh and if someone wants to see a presentation of the 'Big Bang'. Here's a good video. A Universe from nothing

Quote:
Almost like someone doesn't want us discovering that it's an artificial satellite...
Or man is at the infancy of space exploration and thus #### breaks.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Nov-2011 at 10:01 PM.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 10-Nov-2011 3:00:40
#893 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
In the electric universe theory, things that disprove the big bang are natural effects of the electric universe
Properties of an unproven system are fairly easy to claim, and are surprisingly flexible. Evidence is the next big step. (Remember that invisible room temperature fire breathing dragon needs to demonstrated to exist for acceptance.) And of course we could postulate an electric universe with a 'Big Bang'.

Wrong. Its all been demonstrated with plasma in the laboratory. You simply continue your denial of everything not the status quo in science ignoring the blaring holes in the status quo.

Quote:

Quote:
Billions are spent chasing mythical bosons and virtual matter. Who are the cracks who believe in this stuff? You might as well throw in the tooth fairy as well..
Jumping to these things don't exist and are a waste is an opinion that's unsupported. That's why one needs experimentation, observation, and evidence. Each experiment, even if a failure, is a learning experience in science.

The experiments have happened. Where have you been. When the answer comes back inconclusive, the answer is "oh, we need even more sensitivity it seems" and the cycle of spending billions more resumes. Plasma tests have delivered results without billions wasted.

Quote:
Getting back to the Halton Arp statements in the 'Big Bang never happened' -- It appears newer evidence doesn't support Arp's theories. Good guess Halton, evidence is against you, but keep working.

What evidence is that?

Quote:
Oh and if someone wants to see a presentation of the 'Big Bang'. Here's a good video. A Universe from nothing

I laughed when he said nothing is actually virtual particles. Too many leaps of faith need to be taken to believe this stuff.

Quote:

Quote:
Almost like someone doesn't want us discovering that it's an artificial satellite...
Or man is at the infancy of space exploration and thus #### breaks.

I suppose that after the Soviet Union dissolved that you think they started back at square one...?

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Nimrod 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 10-Nov-2011 8:51:29
#894 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
The electric universe doesn't need 'dark' anything to be right.
Quite correct. all it needs is something called evidence. You do have some this time, don't you? More pretty pictures, remember my shark/dolphin analogy.
From a distance a shark and a dolphin look similar, and likewise from a distance gravitational attraction can look like magnetic attraction.
Quote:
Gravity has already been explained away electrically by Brandenburg and others.
Quote:
Its all been demonstrated with plasma in the laboratory.
Oh Goody, goody, goody. now at last you can provide the equations that will show how the planets maintain such electro-magnetically ####-eyed orbits in a varying strength magnetic field. Strangely enough I mentioned the orbits of Phobos and Deimos back then and now you are using the failure of a component on a Russian probe intended to study Phobos to "prove" that there is some kind of alien conspiracy going on. There is no conspiracy, it's just that during the stress of lift off, stuff sometimes breaks, and sometimes the consequences are worse than an unmanned probe getting stuck in Earth orbit.
Quote:
Almost like someone doesn't want us discovering that it's an artificial satellite...
Once again you are putting the cart before the horse. You always seem to come to a conclusion, then cherry pick the evidence to "prove" that you are right.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 10-Nov-2011 12:29:11
#895 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
The electric universe doesn't need 'dark' anything to be right.
Quite correct. all it needs is something called evidence. You do have some this time, don't you? More pretty pictures, remember my shark/dolphin analogy.
From a distance a shark and a dolphin look similar, and likewise from a distance gravitational attraction can look like magnetic attraction.
Quote:
Gravity has already been explained away electrically by Brandenburg and others.
Quote:
Its all been demonstrated with plasma in the laboratory.
Oh Goody, goody, goody. now at last you can provide the equations that will show how the planets maintain such electro-magnetically ####-eyed orbits in a varying strength magnetic field. Strangely enough I mentioned the orbits of Phobos and Deimos back then and now you are using the failure of a component on a Russian probe intended to study Phobos to "prove" that there is some kind of alien conspiracy going on. There is no conspiracy, it's just that during the stress of lift off, stuff sometimes breaks, and sometimes the consequences are worse than an unmanned probe getting stuck in Earth orbit.

I like how you ignore evidence. Afterall, when in doubt - deny, deny, deny.

Quote:

Quote:
Almost like someone doesn't want us discovering that it's an artificial satellite...
Once again you are putting the cart before the horse. You always seem to come to a conclusion, then cherry pick the evidence to "prove" that you are right.


I'm suprised that you seem to have failed to do your homework on this one.
Phobos is interesting because it's orbit doesn't make sense. The ESA has already done 1 study on it and essentially determined that it is not solid inside. You do know that there is a monolith on Phobos, right?

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 10-Nov-2011 14:12:17
#896 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
Wrong. Its all been demonstrated with plasma in the laboratory. You simply continue your denial of everything not the status quo in science ignoring the blaring holes in the status quo.
The leap of faith you discuss is that you're taking to claim gravity does not exist. Gravity, while I agree incomplete, at present has the preponderance of evidence. And no I'm not ignoring the holes as I've often mentioned such holes and other postulates to resolve them. It may perhaps be EM is everything or something else.

Quote:
When the answer comes back inconclusive, the answer is "oh, we need even more sensitivity it seems" and the cycle of spending billions more resumes.
Not true. The answer comes back inconclusive the 'answer' from science is how very cool another unknown something we can learn. What are the multiple approaches to the problem and let's build evidence to help us determine which of the myriad of answers is wrong, or right.

Quote:
What evidence is that?
Halton Arp's conclusions are in conflict with improved image resolution, specifically that of the Hubble Space Telescope. See #889 where I discussed this in brief.

Quote:
I suppose that after the Soviet Union dissolved that you think they started back at square one
Not surprisingly an unrealistic twist from you. Again I say man's exploration of the universe is but in it's infancy. The probability for difficulties is relatively high compared to the more mundane things we do day in and day out. But, sure I'd agree perhaps the people that I know that actually built this stuff are all lying. Perhaps you're right that satellites are as easy to build as a Big Mac and it had to be LGM.

Quote:
You do know that there is a monolith on Phobos, right?
You do know there are monoliths on earth and other objects in our solar system right? And so far every single monolith has been found to be natural causes. I agree we need better evidence of this object. But, hey go ahead and bet on LGM. My bet is just like the 'Face on Mars' when more evidence of better quality becomes available the 'monolith' will be found to be the more mundane and common naturally occurring rocks we find on earth and throughout the solar system. But should my guess be incorrect, and you were lucky, I'd be overjoyed.

Fringe science is important. As it's a source of fresh ideas. Just because a handful may be correct it in no way implies it's all correct. Like all science it too must match evidence and predictability.

Last edited by BrianK on 10-Nov-2011 at 02:16 PM.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 10-Nov-2011 14:55:11
#897 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
Wrong. Its all been demonstrated with plasma in the laboratory. You simply continue your denial of everything not the status quo in science ignoring the blaring holes in the status quo.
The leap of faith you discuss is that you're taking to claim gravity does not exist. Gravity, while I agree incomplete, at present has the preponderance of evidence. And no I'm not ignoring the holes as I've often mentioned such holes and other postulates to resolve them. It may perhaps be EM is everything or something else.

It's GEM, you just are still in denial. Even Einstein pursued GEM because he knew Relativity was not right.

Quote:

Quote:
When the answer comes back inconclusive, the answer is "oh, we need even more sensitivity it seems" and the cycle of spending billions more resumes.
Not true. The answer comes back inconclusive the 'answer' from science is how very cool another unknown something we can learn. What are the multiple approaches to the problem and let's build evidence to help us determine which of the myriad of answers is wrong, or right.

These people keep looking for excuses to get more funding. You are quite naive.

Quote:

Quote:
What evidence is that?
Halton Arp's conclusions are in conflict with improved image resolution, specifically that of the Hubble Space Telescope. See #889 where I discussed this in brief.

The universe is supposedly 156 billion lightyears across, how did this happen when it's age is 13.4 billion years? Oh yeah we need Relativity + dark magic...

Quote:

Quote:
I suppose that after the Soviet Union dissolved that you think they started back at square one
Not surprisingly an unrealistic twist from you. Again I say man's exploration of the universe is but in it's infancy. The probability for difficulties is relatively high compared to the more mundane things we do day in and day out. But, sure I'd agree perhaps the people that I know that actually built this stuff are all lying. Perhaps you're right that satellites are as easy to build as a Big Mac and it had to be LGM.

The Russians are not strangers to outer space. To have this many failures dedicated to one specific destination goes beyond co-incidence...oh and your favorite: probability.

Quote:

Quote:
You do know that there is a monolith on Phobos, right?
You do know there are monoliths on earth and other objects in our solar system right? And so far every single monolith has been found to be natural causes. I agree we need better evidence of this object. But, hey go ahead and bet on LGM. My bet is just like the 'Face on Mars' when more evidence of better quality becomes available the 'monolith' will be found to be the more mundane and common naturally occurring rocks we find on earth and throughout the solar system. But should my guess be incorrect, and you were lucky, I'd be overjoyed.

Fringe science is important. As it's a source of fresh ideas. Just because a handful may be correct it in no way implies it's all correct. Like all science it too must match evidence and predictability.

John Brandenburg also studied Mars. If anything, it looks like the face was damaged. You are ignoring all the pyramids around the face as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1372747/Ever-wondered-Mars-red-One-scientists-thinks-knows.html

Nuclear war on Mars, who would have thunk it? Wait, didn't the Sumerians write about that? (Sitchin)

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BrianK 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 10-Nov-2011 15:33:09
#898 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
It's GEM, you just are still in denial
There's no denial. I'm simply waiting for GEM to bring the preponderance of evidence and improved predictability to the game.

Quote:
These people keep looking for excuses to get more funding
Again I ask, but you never answer, did you attend college in STEM or particpate in STEM? While some indeed wait it out many of the scientists are there because they want to learn and bring something first. The game of science is indeed besting those that came before. Having Einstein live in your shadow is always the better option. Your attitude strikes me as someone that's not participated in that which you condemn.

Quote:
The Russians are not strangers to outer space.
Compared to others on earth they're in the same league. Though I still contend the league is closer to grade school T-ball than Major League Baseball.

Quote:
John Brandenburg also studied Mars. If anything, it looks like the face was damaged. You are ignoring all the pyramids around the face as well. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1372747/Ever-wondered-Mars-red-One-scientists-thinks-knows.html
Nuclear war on Mars, who would have thunk it? Wait, didn't the Sumerians write about that?
Not sure how you got from an internal unproven nuclear fall out to conclude that the unproven answer is right 'nuclear' but only the internal part is wrong and it must be some sort of galatic LGM nuclear war? I appalud your creativity and still am waiting for evidence.

And no the face wasn't damaged the face is a mountain.

Last edited by BrianK on 10-Nov-2011 at 03:54 PM.

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 10-Nov-2011 16:34:46
#899 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

what I see is you accept the holes in Big Bang, relativity, gravity because you are content with


To accept a new paradigm that may require more math seems to be unacceptable because it's not as easy...

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Lou 
Re: US shakes and awakes?,
Posted on 10-Nov-2011 16:51:43
#900 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

I mean if relativity is correct, how do these calculations go wrong?
They must be noobs or something...

Isn't it all rocket science?

How do things get stuck in earth orbit when we/they supposedly know all the math?

Why are deeper space satellites' courses alway in need of adjustment?

What are geostationary orbits based on distance and apparently not mass?

I mean relativity is all we need, right?

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