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T-J 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 19-Nov-2011 13:46:25
#961 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 31-Aug-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@Lou

You accuse BrianK of being mundane as if that's a bad thing. I for one am not going to apologise for employing an empiricist theory of knowledge in order to understand the universe meaningfully. And I am also going to ask you, yet again, for your alternative theory of knowledge that you are using to form your opinions.

Or do you not have one? Of course you don't - internal self-consistency is not one of your strong-points, is it?

You talk about 'being willing to accept' us as being FBI agents pushing the government line. Laughable, but I have a return to that - I am willing to accept you as a troll who's pushing the most insane interpretations possible just to get a rise out of the rest of us.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 19-Nov-2011 16:20:58
#962 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@T-J

Cry me a river.

If you must know, my views are closer to string theory. For instance, Brandenburg used a 4th dimension to unify gravity with EM. Perhaps "Strong" will require a 5th...
I am not a fan of particle physics especially when wave function seem more appropriate.

Fyi, progress is never made by merely accepting the mundane.

There are so many stories of the establishment holding back science. You two are prime examples.


Here's something I find funny:
The big bull..err band theory says that the universe was a hot and extremely dense point mass that expanded and cooled. Well, maybe I'm slow but normally when you heat something up it expands and when you cool it down it contracts in size. So wouldn't that mean for the universe to expand that energy was added to it...and continues to be added to it apparently? Seems like they had it wrong from the start which is why they are adding dark energy this late in the game. So to recap, the universe is expanding because energy continues to be added to it, not because its cooling off. Sure you have some local cooling and that's where galaxies formed, but by their own theory, they were wrong from the beginning.

But simple people who enjoy the mundane will believe whatever some book tells them...

Last edited by Lou on 19-Nov-2011 at 04:39 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 19-Nov-2011 at 04:25 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 19-Nov-2011 at 04:25 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 19-Nov-2011 20:02:46
#963 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
If you must know, my views are closer to string theory
Interesting set of postulates that work out mathematically well. Though may I ask which version as there are string theories in conflict with each other. Oh and of course String has yet have any evidence that reality function thats way. So lots of roads to go. I too am interested in seeing evidence match the scratchings on the napkin.

Quote:
There are so many stories of the establishment holding back science. You two are prime examples.
Undoubtably science is political. Afterall it's an endeavor by humans. If you get 2 humans together you get 3 opinions about anything so...

I'd argue it's you that's most damaging to science by failing to sustain the empiricist system which is it's foundation.

Quote:
but by their own theory, they were wrong from the beginning.
Not true.

Quote:
But simple people who enjoy the mundane will believe whatever some book tells them
Again my goal isn't the mundane. My goal is to follow the evidence no matter where it leads. Instead of owning the horse, I own the track. If it so happens that the mundane wins then so be it. I can't control the universe, but the best option on how to understand it is ever questioning scientific empirism.

You seem to always leap to the most fanciful. Now I give you, your version is far more interesting with ETs knocking on our world continunally. But, just because it'd be more cool doesn't mean it truly happens.

Last edited by BrianK on 19-Nov-2011 at 09:36 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 19-Nov-2011 at 08:03 PM.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 20-Nov-2011 0:31:02
#964 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
If you must know, my views are closer to string theory
Interesting set of postulates that work out mathematically well. Though may I ask which version as there are string theories in conflict with each other. Oh and of course String has yet have any evidence that reality function thats way. So lots of roads to go. I too am interested in seeing evidence match the scratchings on the napkin.

I said "closer to". I said Brandenburg used 1 extra to solve for gravity. I said I don't believe in particles but waves. A string has similarities to waves. I think science is currently incomplete. I think to become complacent with obviouse BS like the big bang is wrong. Alot of money has been wasted supporting the big bang and searching for virtual particles that only exist when some wave function is at its peak.

Quote:
Undoubtably science is political. Afterall it's an endeavor by humans. If you get 2 humans together you get 3 opinions about anything so...

I'd argue it's you that's most damaging to science by failing to sustain the empiricist system which is it's foundation.

"Your" empiricist system is full of holes. Hence it's clearly not universally correct.

Quote:

Quote:
but by their own theory, they were wrong from the beginning.
Not true.

Because BrianK says so?
How does something cool off and expand at the same time?

Quote:

Quote:
But simple people who enjoy the mundane will believe whatever some book tells them
Again my goal isn't the mundane. My goal is to follow the evidence no matter where it leads. Instead of owning the horse, I own the track. If it so happens that the mundane wins then so be it. I can't control the universe, but the best option on how to understand it is ever questioning scientific empirism.

You seem to always leap to the most fanciful. Now I give you, your version is far more interesting with ETs knocking on our world continunally. But, just because it'd be more cool doesn't mean it truly happens.

Your world knocks itself, I'm merely point out where.
What you fail to grasp is that you have not proven that is doesn't happen. You have chosen the mundane view of not believing 1 single eye witness account as well as the accounts of military personal and former government employees.

From a poll in 2007, fourteen percent of americans said they have seen a UFO.
After the Discovery incident in space, all shuttle video from outside the ship ceased to be live. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_zMaSPPdpQ ... not to mention ufos flying over the White House in the 50's....

Yet, you think I'm the one not in touch with reality. Bottomline, you people can't handle the truth so instead you choose the mundane...

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Nimrod 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 20-Nov-2011 13:16:56
#965 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
I said I don't believe in particles but waves.
Belief gets in the way of learning. If you are interested in gaining real knowledge you must put aside belief and follow the evidence You may not like where it leads, Einstein certainly didn't, but any time you put your belief ahead of the evidence you are going to expose youself to being proved wrong.

Quote:
How does something cool off and expand at the same time?
First get yourself a cold beer from the fridge, then ask yourself how does a fridge work. As a clue I offer this simple example.

Quote:
From a poll in 2007, fourteen percent of americans said they have seen a UFO.
Two points.
1) Opinion is irrelevant. If we all believe that the moon is made of green cheese, it will not transform from mundane rock to please us.
2) If fourteen percent claim to have seen UFO's then 86% haven't. Using your own "democratic science" UFO's do not exist by majority decree.

Quote:
Bottomline, you people can't handle the truth so instead you choose the mundane...
Bottom line, some people would rather accept a fantasy like "The driver shot JFK" or "Somebody else did it and then ran away" rather than accept that they mistake real miracles for mundane.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 20-Nov-2011 15:29:45
#966 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
I said Brandenburg used 1 extra to solve for gravity. I said I don't believe in particles but waves. A string has similarities to waves. I think science is currently incomplete
Believing is a problem. It's a filter that blocks out other possibilities. It puts the cart before the horse as you conclude then perhaps might evidence.

Quote:
Your" empiricist system is full of holes. Hence it's clearly not universally correct.
I, as well as science do not consider the job done. It's incomplete (hey something we agree on.) So today we give the best conclusion for our present state of understanding and accept this may change in the future as newer evidence, a larger quantity of evidence, and improved quality of evidence is created. The reason people are scientists is they want to work towards resolving the unknowns. As they are resolved, depending on the evidence, existing theories will evolve or even shift to a new paradigm.

Quote:
Because BrianK says so?
You've time and again tried to demonstrate that gravity is internally conflicting. The problem hasn't been the science it's been your misunderstanding or misuse.

Quote:
How does something cool off and expand at the same time?
First, is the concept is the universe itself. A heating then cooling we'd see on earth is bounded by the earth and actually the universe itself. To answer your question on the scale of the universe itself we must know what does, or does not boundary the universe, and how.

One easy example is cooling and expanding is an explosion. When a bomb explodes it imparts thermal energy and angular momentum to the particles. Thus, we see the area closer to the center of the explosion hotter and moving faster than the edges which are expanding and cooler in comparison to the middle. So indeed the effect of a cooling and yet expansion does exist along the timeline from explosion to completion of the event.

Quote:
What you fail to grasp is that you have not proven that is doesn't happen.
This statement brings to the forefront one of the problems in your system. Argument from ignorance: This is where your arguments assert something to be true because it has not been proven false. You exclude the 3rd option, which I have repeatedly asserted on your system, that there is insufficent investigation to make a definitive conclusion.

Quote:
From a poll in 2007, fourteen percent of americans said they have seen a UFO.
First, don't fall into another fallacy. Popularity, or unpopularity, does not impart truth.

Quote:
After the Discovery incident in space, all shuttle video from outside the ship ceased to be live
Do you have more details? Here's the options I thought of. If the video is recorded and kept on the shuttle until it's return UFOlogists can't get it. If the video is delayed broadcast to the pubic it's still in real time to NASA and UFOlogists could record the incoming signal. If the video is delayed send from the Shuttle, again UFOlogists could record the incoming signal.

So unless the video is kept on the Shuttle for analsysis upon the return UFOlogists, or others, do have the ability to record the transmission. Again the Mars Landers transmitted to earth and UFOlogists could record the incoming signal and determine if anything was 'censored' in the way you suggest. The big plus here for UFOlogists is they couldn't claim NASA controls all as they can simply DIY the data.

BTW the video is unconvincing as UFOs. Unless those UFOs are fairly ant sized and piggybacked on the shuttle itself masquerating as debris and frozen atmosphere.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 20-Nov-2011 17:11:48
#967 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@Nimrod

Quote:

Nimrod wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
I said I don't believe in particles but waves.
Belief gets in the way of learning. If you are interested in gaining real knowledge you must put aside belief and follow the evidence You may not like where it leads, Einstein certainly didn't, but any time you put your belief ahead of the evidence you are going to expose youself to being proved wrong.

Perhaps you should read more about Einstein from after the 1920's... He was not satisfied with Relativity.

Quote:

Quote:
How does something cool off and expand at the same time?
First get yourself a cold beer from the fridge, then ask yourself how does a fridge work. As a clue I offer this simple example.

That's all well and good but the universe continues to expand. So picture this, the universe was a stick of dynomite, something lit the wick. Apparently energy is still being added (dark energy). So you ask me to follow the evidence and observation, and the observation is the opposite of the big bang. It makes more sense that if the big bang actually happened that it was a small immensely dense and cool point mass that got ignited and exploded...and apparently fuel continues to be added...

This is why all science based on the big bang is wrong. This is why they had to hack in the concept of dark energy when suprise, the edges of galaxies are moving faster than they should and galaxies are moving farther apart.

So when Relativity was conceptualized, none of this was taken into account.

Quote:

Quote:
From a poll in 2007, fourteen percent of americans said they have seen a UFO.
Two points.
1) Opinion is irrelevant. If we all believe that the moon is made of green cheese, it will not transform from mundane rock to please us.
2) If fourteen percent claim to have seen UFO's then 86% haven't. Using your own "democratic science" UFO's do not exist by majority decree.

What you are ignoring is that a significant amount of people have seen something at some point in their lives. Ofcourse you can't just walk down any street and see something. Your reasoning here is asinine.

Last edited by Lou on 20-Nov-2011 at 05:13 PM.

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Nimrod 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Nov-2011 11:57:48
#968 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1223
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
What you are ignoring is that a significant amount of people have seen something at some point in their lives. Ofcourse you can't just walk down any street and see something. Your reasoning here is asinine.

I do not ignore the fact that some people have seen something, I just happen to know what the letters UFO stand for. As somebody smarter than me can explain, U stands for unidentified, not "Intergalactic extraterrestrial alien space invader". You can just walk down any street and see something, the trick is to identify it.

PS. My reasoning is precisely as sensible as it needs to be, given the original claim about UFO's.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Nov-2011 12:18:11
#969 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
What you are ignoring is that a significant amount of people have seen something at some point in their lives. Ofcourse you can't just walk down any street and see something. Your reasoning here is asinine.
What I've seen is about 95%+ of UFOs are only Unidentified to the viewer and are actually known objects. Such as the moon, venus, clouds, airplanes etc.

And yeah you can walk down the street and just see something. The human mind is built to try and identify patterns. It's fairly easy to assign value when none exists. For example the Virgin Mary in a cheese sandwich was worth nearly $30K. There's a name for seeing something in nothing it's apophenia and it's a real effect. Mix in some confabulation and some pareidolia and you'll quickly see (pun intended) why any event must have external collaborating evidence to help determine what is true.

When asked you never answered if you did any science. Had you done so you'd know the importance in calibrating your equipment. For example: How big of a drop does your eye dropper make versus how big of a drop does my eye dropper make? These little things are very important. I think of evidence in a similar manner. It helps calibrate the most important piece of equipment... The human itself.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Nov-2011 12:33:41
#970 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
What you are ignoring is that a significant amount of people have seen something at some point in their lives. Ofcourse you can't just walk down any street and see something. Your reasoning here is asinine.
What I've seen is about 95%+ of UFOs are only Unidentified to the viewer and are actually known objects. Such as the moon, venus, clouds, airplanes etc.

LOL! I love how you assume you can speak for 95% of people. Regardless, 5% of 14% is still an aweful lot.

What I saw in my childhood when I lived on the Azores was not ours. What I saw in my 20's was.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Nov-2011 14:31:03
#971 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
LOL! I love how you assume you can speak for 95% of people. Regardless, 5% of 14% is still an aweful lot.
Though researchers that investigate UFO reports can. Here's a good start misIdentified Flying Objects Research has been done to try and see what the observational error rate is UFO's. It's strikingly high. So, yes one can walk around and misidentify events. It clearly happens with UFOs and leaves at best a handful of observations that would be interesting to see if we could find more. Don't forget that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Nov-2011 17:33:56
#972 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
LOL! I love how you assume you can speak for 95% of people. Regardless, 5% of 14% is still an aweful lot.
Though researchers that investigate UFO reports can. Here's a good start misIdentified Flying Objects Research has been done to try and see what the observational error rate is UFO's. It's strikingly high. So, yes one can walk around and misidentify events. It clearly happens with UFOs and leaves at best a handful of observations that would be interesting to see if we could find more. Don't forget that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Do you even read what you link? This doesn't help your quest for the ultra mundane...

Let's look at the wiki for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Allen_Hynek

Quote:
For the first few years of his UFO studies, Hynek could safely be described as a debunker. He thought that a great many UFOs could be explained as prosaic phenomena misidentified by an observer. But beyond such fairly obvious cases, Hynek often stretched logic to nearly the breaking point in an attempt to explain away as many UFO reports as possible. In his 1977 book, Hynek admitted that he enjoyed his role as a debunker for the Air Force. He also noted that debunking was what the Air Force expected of him.

[edit] Change of opinionHynek's opinions about UFOs began a slow and gradual shift. After examining hundreds of UFO reports over the decades (including some made by credible witnesses, including astronomers, pilots, police officers, and military personnel), Hynek concluded that some reports represented genuine empirical observations.

Another shift in Hynek's opinions came after conducting an informal poll of his astronomer colleagues in the early 1950s. Among those he queried was Dr. Clyde Tombaugh, who discovered the dwarf planet Pluto. Of 44 astronomers, five (over 11 percent) had seen aerial objects that they could not account for with established, mainstream science[citation needed]. Most of these astronomers had not widely shared their accounts for fear of ridicule or of damage to their reputations or careers (Tombaugh was an exception, having openly discussed his own UFO sightings[citation needed]). Hynek also noted that this 11% figure was, according to most polls, greater than those in the general public who claimed to have seen UFOs[citation needed]. Furthermore, the astronomers were presumably more knowledgeable about observing and evaluating the skies than the general public, so their observations were arguably more impressive. Hynek was also distressed by what he regarded as the dismissive or arrogant attitude of many mainstream scientists towards UFO reports and witnesses.

BrianK & Nimrod, you two are a joke to me at this point. You simply refuse to accept reality because it takes you out of your happy place.

Here's some good reading for you: http://ufos.about.com/od/bestufocasefiles/p/1966michigan.htm
Somebody's sniffing swamp gas all right...

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 21-Nov-2011 19:25:44
#973 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
Do you even read what you link?
Sure here ya go
"1.5% had no possible plausible explanation and were completely unexplained" -- These are the interesting ones. Certianly Hynek might be convinced by this 1.5%. Him being convinces doesn't change the 98% with explainable causes and thus as truly not Unidentifable. It's certainly the case that the vast majority of UFOs are just that. Unidentifiable to the the observer but with a bit of evidencing have perfectly valid explainations.

What we see through time is effects that people claimed once to be demons and angels modern society is seeing as aliens. Since the event is not Unidentified we can't claim demons are the answer. Instead we need evidence to facilitate our knowledge and determine if this event is a demon, or an alien, or a both, or neither.

Quote:
BrianK & Nimrod, you two are a joke to me at this point. You simply refuse to accept reality because it takes you out of your happy place.
Personal attacks are uncalled for. If you have facts argue facts. It appears they fail you so you now switch to personal attacks as a defense.

This part of the discussion brings to mind a recent event. My son goes to daycare. The daycare lady's daughter is the same age as my son. She recently reported alien spaceship lights in her room and was too scared to get out of bed. Coincidentaly that night was a very active Aurora Borealis and near cloudless sky. Luckily, the aliens with their superior knowledge of GEM could take advantage of the flashing sky to hide their arrival.

Seems like there are 3 types of aliens to me. Rock lovers. Wheat haters. And butt lovers

Last edited by BrianK on 21-Nov-2011 at 09:36 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 21-Nov-2011 at 07:26 PM.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Nov-2011 12:34:51
#974 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
Do you even read what you link?
Sure here ya go
"1.5% had no possible plausible explanation and were completely unexplained" -- These are the interesting ones. Certianly Hynek might be convinced by this 1.5%. Him being convinces doesn't change the 98% with explainable causes and thus as truly not Unidentifable. It's certainly the case that the vast majority of UFOs are just that. Unidentifiable to the the observer but with a bit of evidencing have perfectly valid explainations.

What we see through time is effects that people claimed once to be demons and angels modern society is seeing as aliens. Since the event is not Unidentified we can't claim demons are the answer. Instead we need evidence to facilitate our knowledge and determine if this event is a demon, or an alien, or a both, or neither.

You're taking stats from a man who admitted to stretching the truth about his finding when he worked for the government? ...and you question my sources?

Here's a guy who reversed his stance when he realized:
a) ufos are real
b) he was being paid to cover it up

Quote:

Quote:
BrianK & Nimrod, you two are a joke to me at this point. You simply refuse to accept reality because it takes you out of your happy place.
Personal attacks are uncalled for. If you have facts argue facts. It appears they fail you so you now switch to personal attacks as a defense.

I'm merely suggesting you two need you heads examined...as when presented with facts you simply pretend they are not there.

Quote:
This part of the discussion brings to mind a recent event. My son goes to daycare. The daycare lady's daughter is the same age as my son. She recently reported alien spaceship lights in her room and was too scared to get out of bed. Coincidentaly that night was a very active Aurora Borealis and near cloudless sky. Luckily, the aliens with their superior knowledge of GEM could take advantage of the flashing sky to hide their arrival.

Seems like there are 3 types of aliens to me. Rock lovers. Wheat haters. And butt lovers

Its amusing how much you will stretch two separate events in your eternal quest for the mundane...and joy of box-dwelling...

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Nov-2011 14:21:49
#975 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
Here's a guy who reversed his stance when he realized:
a) ufos are real b) he was being paid to cover it up
(a) Did he really realize this? Or is (b) don't forget he's was also paid to claim he covered it up by doing speaking tours and writing books. If your contention is money corrupts the process we do have to note this guy got paid by the UFO favortists too.


Quote:
You're taking stats from a man who admitted to stretching the truth about his finding when he worked for the government?
Working for the government is a point of interest. But, itself is not invalidating.

But, to the main point - there is simply more data than this 1 source. I cited the 1 source as a leaping point to look at all the data against the accuracy of UFO observers. USA, UK, Australia, Canada, France, and many Countries have had UFO study programs. NONE of them have concluded UFOs are real. Also, we have much more collaborating data from a big community of amateur astronomers who never have found UFO evidence.

You accuse me of pretending facts aren't there but the preponderance of facts are against Visitors. The way I see you dealing with this is 'trying to keep your happy place' by claiming a worldwide conspiracy so large that multiple Countries are involved and they are able to reach into the little guy with a telescope and convince him to lie too. These Countries can't get together on anything. But UFO's they're all on the same page. It'd be huge for a small Country to spill the evidence of UFOs and one up the SuperPowers.

So really is it better to conclude with the preponderance of evidence that about .21% of the population has an experience that might be truly unexplained and of interest OR to conclude it's really a big worldwide conspiracy and all 14% of the population really did see aliens?

Quote:
Its amusing how much you will stretch two separate events in your eternal quest for the mundane
We have a little girl who saw lights and assumed aliens. She saw lights and didn't claim to see anything other than lights. We have no rocks moved, no wheat crushed, or people disappeared for butt exams. We, undoubtably, have a bright event of a normally occurring but infrequent to this degree aurora that produce exactly the events she describes. So we should conclude she's right against all evidence?

We do have history of little kids being mistaken. Salem Witch trials comes to mind as a significant historic event based on the assumption kids are always right. (And a great song QotSA: Burn the Witch ) And we do have a history of people being wrong - for example search for the guy that called 911 and reported a bright stationary object as a UFO. He called 911 because he wasn't used to the moon! People are and can be fooled. Illusionists, magicians, traveling evengelical shows, and grifters base their life on that hard and fast truth.

Last edited by BrianK on 22-Nov-2011 at 02:33 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 22-Nov-2011 at 02:27 PM.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Nov-2011 15:33:29
#976 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
Here's a guy who reversed his stance when he realized:
a) ufos are real b) he was being paid to cover it up
(a) Did he really realize this? Or is (b) don't forget he's was also paid to claim he covered it up by doing speaking tours and writing books. If your contention is money corrupts the process we do have to note this guy got paid by the UFO favortists too.

Sorry, but nothing beats the government's benefits plan...

Quote:

Quote:
You're taking stats from a man who admitted to stretching the truth about his finding when he worked for the government?
Working for the government is a point of interest. But, itself is not invalidating.

But, to the main point - there is simply more data than this 1 source. I cited the 1 source as a leaping point to look at all the data against the accuracy of UFO observers. USA, UK, Australia, Canada, France, and many Countries have had UFO study programs. NONE of them have concluded UFOs are real. Also, we have much more collaborating data from a big community of amateur astronomers who never have found UFO evidence.

You accuse me of pretending facts aren't there but the preponderance of facts are against Visitors. The way I see you dealing with this is 'trying to keep your happy place' by claiming a worldwide conspiracy so large that multiple Countries are involved and they are able to reach into the little guy with a telescope and convince him to lie too. These Countries can't get together on anything. But UFO's they're all on the same page. It'd be huge for a small Country to spill the evidence of UFOs and one up the SuperPowers.

So really is it better to conclude with the preponderance of evidence that about .21% of the population has an experience that might be truly unexplained and of interest OR to conclude it's really a big worldwide conspiracy and all 14% of the population really did see aliens?

Seeing aliens is separate from seeing ufos. The best way to spread misinformation is to confuse things like you just did there. Good job BrianK, you are good at it!

Even when Britian opened their ufo files, the head of the department went on record in an interview to state that indeed about 2% (of thousands) constituted the real deal.
You can see the interview on youtube.

Quote:

Quote:
Its amusing how much you will stretch two separate events in your eternal quest for the mundane
We have a little girl who saw lights and assumed aliens. She saw lights and didn't claim to see anything other than lights. We have no rocks moved, no wheat crushed, or people disappeared for butt exams. We, undoubtably, have a bright event of a normally occurring but infrequent to this degree aurora that produce exactly the events she describes. So we should conclude she's right against all evidence?

We do have history of little kids being mistaken. Salem Witch trials comes to mind as a significant historic event based on the assumption kids are always right. (And a great song QotSA: Burn the Witch ) And we do have a history of people being wrong - for example search for the guy that called 911 and reported a bright stationary object as a UFO. He called 911 because he wasn't used to the moon! People are and can be fooled. Illusionists, magicians, traveling evengelical shows, and grifters base their life on that hard and fast truth.

It doesn't matter. In your quest to seek the mundane and disinform you strung together 2 unrelated events to offer a false explanation. That seems to be what you do.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Nov-2011 15:34:19
#977 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/11/the-insanely-weird-quantum-wave-function-might-be-real-after-all.ars

ZOMG!!!!!! WAVES!!!!! Who would have thunk it?

Oh and how did Frank Znidarsic link Relativity to Quantum Mechanics? ZOMG! He replaced an equation with a spring(aka wave) function!!!

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/The_Z_theory_of_everything.php

Last edited by Lou on 22-Nov-2011 at 03:41 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 22-Nov-2011 17:53:37
#978 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
Sorry, but nothing beats the government's benefits plan...
Except making money from additional sources does nothing to remove the Gov benefit plans. A very nice plus, if you think money corrupts the process, that cannot be discounted.

Quote:
Seeing aliens is separate from seeing ufos. The best way to spread misinformation is to confuse things like you just did there. Good job BrianK, you are good at it!
There is no misinformation here. .2% of UFOs appear to be unaccountable to identifiable sources. As we don't have a cause the possibilities are clearly open to what they may be. Are you trying to say in reality all are mundane causes and we should be closed to Visitors?

Quote:
the head of the department went on record in an interview to state that indeed about 2% (of thousands) constituted the real deal.
Yes real as in unable to be identified. Not proven to be Visitors.

Quote:
In your quest to seek the mundane and disinform you strung together 2 unrelated events to offer a false explanation
Nope. All evidence points to a single event. If you have some confirming evidence that aliens landed during the Aurora about 5 miles away from my house I'm open to considering your flight of fancy and disinformation might be semi-truthful. Like the guy who mistook the moon for a spaceship and apologized for his folly. This 5 year old girl simply lacked the true knowledge of the single event.

Oh I thought of a 4th type of Vistors the animal haters. They going around turning sheep and cows inside out. Not sure why they didn't try it with people or dolphins or such. You'd think they'd perhaps put a dolphin inside out and leave it in Missouri to see what happens.

Last edited by BrianK on 22-Nov-2011 at 07:01 PM.

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Lou 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 23-Nov-2011 0:26:43
#979 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 4169
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:
Sorry, but nothing beats the government's benefits plan...
Except making money from additional sources does nothing to remove the Gov benefit plans. A very nice plus, if you think money corrupts the process, that cannot be discounted.

Money does corrupt the process of drone scientists who are just yes-men.
One ones who challenge the system forge their own path such as write books...because being a yes-man lands you a tenure and vice versa.

Quote:

Quote:
Seeing aliens is separate from seeing ufos. The best way to spread misinformation is to confuse things like you just did there. Good job BrianK, you are good at it!
There is no misinformation here. .2% of UFOs appear to be unaccountable to identifiable sources. As we don't have a cause the possibilities are clearly open to what they may be. Are you trying to say in reality all are mundane causes and we should be closed to Visitors?

Your figure is an invention and the figure is irrelevant because your answer is mundane.

Quote:

Quote:
the head of the department went on record in an interview to state that indeed about 2% (of thousands) constituted the real deal.
Yes real as in unable to be identified. Not proven to be Visitors.

Real as in not disproven to be visitors but proven to not look like accepted terrestrial technology.

Quote:

Quote:
In your quest to seek the mundane and disinform you strung together 2 unrelated events to offer a false explanation
Nope. All evidence points to a single event. If you have some confirming evidence that aliens landed during the Aurora about 5 miles away from my house I'm open to considering your flight of fancy and disinformation might be semi-truthful. Like the guy who mistook the moon for a spaceship and apologized for his folly. This 5 year old girl simply lacked the true knowledge of the single event.

Oh I thought of a 4th type of Vistors the animal haters. They going around turning sheep and cows inside out. Not sure why they didn't try it with people or dolphins or such. You'd think they'd perhaps put a dolphin inside out and leave it in Missouri to see what happens.

So when you get proven wrong you continue to twist the subject with humor. GJ!

By the way, you missed replying on one of my posts. Isn't it funny that since MikeB originally started this thread "gravity probes" proved nothing and your big-banging colliders have just about given up the the mythical god particle and the science I support is making news?

Last edited by Lou on 23-Nov-2011 at 12:31 AM.
Last edited by Lou on 23-Nov-2011 at 12:27 AM.

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BrianK 
Re: Anybody remember Nibiru?
Posted on 23-Nov-2011 2:26:10
#980 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
One ones who challenge the system forge their own path such as write books
Challenge or not any scientist's work must be able to stand up to observation, experimentation, and provide predictability. It's the exact same criteria.

Quote:
Your figure is an invention and the figure is
The unidentied to a person or small group of persons becomes identiable in the over 90% range holding on to 14% of the population has an Unidentified experience is the invention. In reality the majority of the 14% don't know the answer when one does exist.

Quote:
irrelevant because your answer is mundane.
They evidence to what they evidence to. Again I have no horse in the race simply follow the trail of evidence. What your idea demonstrates is a huge amount of confirmation bias.

Quote:
Real as in not disproven to be visitors but proven to not look like accepted terrestrial technology.
Again unable to be evidenced to a conclusion. Simply the researchers were unable to come to a fair conclusion.

Quote:
So when you get proven wrong you continue to twist the subject with humor
You've yet to provide a single iota of evidence that Vistors really did come that night, nor has anyone else found one.

Quote:
Isn't it funny that since MikeB originally started this thread "gravity probes" proved nothing and your big-banging colliders have just about given up the the mythical god particle and the science I support is making news?
Gravity probes in space proved some of Einstein's unprovens. So indeed interesting. Not sure where you think they proved nothing?

As for the LHC do you realize it's 1/2 speed unti 2012 and not full speed until 2014? And once reached full speed if the Higgs exists one would only exist every few hours and take a couple years to collect and analyze data. I'd say before you conclude at least let the experimentation complete. And you never know what they may find.

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