@pavlor

Quote:

No, it is not too expensive. It is horribly expensive! 2500 EUR for year 2007 class hardware - they must be joking! However, there are still people crazy enough to buy it even at that price... like me.

This position I can understand. ;)

But don't go telling me "it's not that expensive" or "if you want it enough, it's affordable"!

@zerohero

Quote:

Says more about the user than the OS, don't you think?

dont twist it around. it was not about the os or users, only about estimating the number of users based on downloads. its sure it doesnt equals the donwnloads number. whether it is to be divided by 2 or more is a more valid question.
if you want at least to have the number of active users visiting this forum, set a poll the like of:
1. i own a sam or another os4 compatible hardware
2. i own an x1k (beta)
3. im going to order x1k as soon as possible
...
and you will get your numbes.
multiply them by 2 to be on a sure side.

@OldAmigan

Quote:

If we want to see Amiga progress as a platform, we have to show support somehow.

i dont regard myself to have any duties here. nor others to have any duty to serve me in any way. its all based on free will, and thats how it will remain. sorry.

@wawa

Not arguing about the numbers at all.

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Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@zerohero

But would ne nice if people could stay on topic and drop mos talk and userbase etc etc.

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I'm an antique. Don't light my fuse

@OldAmigan

Quote:

OldAmigan wrote: @thread For me, with the A1X1000 it's the money choice - "Can I afford it?" I used to try and justify the expense before I bought the A1 but then realised I'd never get one. So when I could afford it, I bought one. The same applies with the A1X1000. It's the only way I can see to support the ongoing investment (of time as well as financial). I can't program, I'm just an end-user, so how else can I support? If we want to see Amiga progress as a platform, we have to show support somehow.

If that £2500 or whatever it is went on paying coders instead of getting flushed down the hardware development toilet imagine how much better things would be. This custom hardware thing is just wasting money that faithful users are spending to ostensibly support the development.

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Fraggle

- insert profound text here -

@Antique

Quite a lot of Mos users on international forums backstab their own system of choise
with their childish tallk, so it is ok for me

And now we start again about red and blue ... again and again and again ...

_________________
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The Belgian Amiga Club on FACEBOOK !

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@recedent

Quote:

Maybe. But who would pay money for that weird, hosted-on-top-of-something-else OS?

Who would, indeed?

@KimmoK

Quote:

even though it meant the waste of thousand(s) of man years of work

You keep using this phrase. Do you understand what a man-year is?

I suspect that neither the OS4 nor the MorphOS effort amounts to even 100 man-years, let alone 1000+.

MorphOS Mac support almost certainly came in at under 1000 man *hours* --- that's half a year, full time.

@wawa

Quote:

if you want at least to have the number of active users visiting this forum,

The number of unique users who log into aw.net during a month is now around 650, down around 150 from a year ago. The number of unique users during a 3-month period has fallen to below 1000 this year.

Given that there are most certainly aw.net users who are not OS4 users, and also OS4 users who do not log into aw.net, it's hard to base any sort of accurate estimate on these numbers, of course --- but seeing how aw.net is the most OS4-centric of the serious Amiga-related websites[1], I suspect they do provide somewhat of an upper bound.


[1]: No, I don't count Amigans.net as a serious website. It would take more than 200 unique visitors per month for that....

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @zerohero Quote: Says more about the user than the OS, don't you think? dont twist it around. it was not about the os or users, only about estimating the number of users based on downloads. its sure it doesnt equals the donwnloads number. whether it is to be divided by 2 or more is a more valid question.

It seems to me that you completely missed the point of Zeros post. He was not making any reference to numbers of sales (OS, Hardware or otherwise). His point was stating that if problems were being solved by a "clean install" that the user was more to blame than the OS surely (typically from installing things that break the OS such as incompatible 3rd party libraries).

Quite how you can read that in any other way is quite amazing.

@thread:

There are many parts of this thread going way off topic. This isn't a "bash everyone involved in making this project or OS4" thread, nor is it a "recommend using some other OS of my choice" thread.

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@Frags

Quote:

Frags wrote: @OldAmigan [quote] If that £2500 or whatever it is went on paying coders instead of getting flushed down the hardware development toilet imagine how much better things would be. This custom hardware thing is just wasting money that faithful users are spending to ostensibly support the development.

OK, first of all, A-EON is not Hyperion. The development cost for the AmigaOne X1000 is not Hyperion's burden to bear, and thus has no impact on the development of the OS (as in paying their team of coders to develop it).

Yes we have a small market share, but having NEW hardware is something all of the old Amiga users have been clamouring for for years. New hardware, not some "End Of Line" discontinued other company's custom hardware. These complaints about the cost are somewhat fruitless. This situation is not so different to choosing between an A500 or an A3000. Sure one is bigger, faster, more upgradeable with more features onboard, but then is also cost £2000 or more in comparioson to the cheaper £400 option. Funnily, most people opted for the cheaper one.

You have the SAMs (several flavours) which are exactly the same as the "entry" level A500 systems. And you have the A1 X1000, equivalent to your top end "big-box" Amiga with a price tag to match. If you are not willing to go for the low-end or mid range machine, and cannot afford the top-end one, why complain about it and call it rubbish or doomed to fail. I am sure many said the same for the "big box" Amiga systems too, but they seemed to do OK (yes they had a bigger audience but that is a moot point).

The companies developing the new hardware do not have the luxury of producing 1,000,000 units in the hope they will sell all of them to make them in big runs of smaller "per unit" costs for the end user. People have been spoilt for far too long by mass produced (and in some cases inferior quality components and boards) sold to you at a net loss to the manufacturer, that you cannot appreciate the actual costs involved in development and production of them. When did Amiga owners all become so miserable that they have to find fault with everything?

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One thing to remember in all this:

Compare with say 10 years ago, how did our hardware market look back then?

OS4 is available to quite many different machines, the sad thing is that it is an expensive market still compared with mainstream pc-market.

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@_Steve_

Quote:

This situation is not so different to choosing between an A500 or an A3000. Sure one is bigger, faster, more upgradeable with more features onboard, but then is also cost £2000 or more in comparioson to the cheaper £400 option. Funnily, most people opted for the cheaper one.

Amiga 3000 was completely useless for gaming so nobody really wanted big box Amiga in those days. When Amiga 500 users wanted to upgrade they upgraded to PC and didnt even consider getting Amiga 3000/4000.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

It was always expensive compared to a PC starting from Windows95 when x86 suddenly had good sound, nice graphics including 3D with voodoo. If you wanted Picasso IV, a Toccata soundcard and networkcard in your big box amiga ... it would have costed 3 times the price you would have had to pay for any supermarket x86 with these capabilities.

So what's different now ? We all grew older.

_________________
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The Belgian Amiga Club on FACEBOOK !

The Belgian Amiga Club Website

@zerohero

I don't care why users are doing a clean reinstall, it's the fact that doing so would result in another download of that driver is what counts here.

What other browsers were available before Fab's OWB was ported to OS4 ?

- IBrowse, o.k. if you life in the 90s but crap for someone wanting to browse the web in the 21th century
- AWeb, more of the above
- RA-OWB with it's missing download-manager ? Even it's author admits that it's crap (well he was aiming at MUI and Fab's port with that rant but in the end it only stuck to his port)

So yes browsers available for OS4 were crap until recently !

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

Quote:

Kronos wrote: @zerohero I don't care why users are doing a clean reinstall, it's the fact that doing so would result in another download of that driver is what counts here. What other browsers were available before Fab's OWB was ported to OS4 ? - IBrowse, o.k. if you life in the 90s but crap for someone wanting to browse the web in the 21th century - AWeb, more of the above - RA-OWB with it's missing download-manager ? Even it's author admits that it's crap (well he was aiming at MUI and Fab's port with that rant but in the end it only stuck to his port) So yes browsers available for OS4 were crap until recently !

And Net Surf.

Regards!
Rude!

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2017 Camaro 2SS

@umisef

I wrote "it meant the waste of thousand(s) of man years of work", LOL!

I meant thousands of work hours. (perhaps a few man years)




>MorphOS Mac support almost certainly came in at under 1000 man *hours* --- that's half a year, full time.

I can not see how it would be possible, considering the quality of the MOS port, done without any documentation to assist.
(I know amiga (meaning amigalikes) developers are superior to almost any other ( ) but still...)


btw. softhut sells Amithlon today ? Really? I have missed something...

Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Oct-2011 at 11:52 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 23-Oct-2011 at 11:49 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Kronos

"How often do you read OS4-users "solving" problems by doing a clean install ?"

Not followed that clean install thing. I needed to download it once.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?