@RodTerl

Quote:

RodTerl wrote: Why all this CPU central power desire?. What is this, Intel a gogo?.. This Is Amiga.. we want power, we plug in more computational modules and distribute our multithreaded code among them. You want power?.. Plug 8 GPUs into your ASUS Supercoputer Mobo, and watch the poor mere 80 core Intel CPU scream as its only got dual memory controllers instead of 16 way accross teh gigabytes of high speed Ram on the easily replaceable and upgradable GPUs. Even the A500 could handle 8 coprocessors.

Today's GPUs has many-core design e.g. Radeon HD 7970's 32 compute units which yields 2048 stream processors over six 64bit memory channels. It has 2 megabytes on-chip local data storage (LDS) not including other caches/buffers and 8 megabytes register storage.

Last edited by Hammer on 16-Aug-2012 at 01:30 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Aug-2012 at 01:22 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Aug-2012 at 08:27 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 16-Aug-2012 at 08:12 AM.

_________________
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Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@amigang

Quote:

PS: if you a fan of the Amiga and you dont at least try Aros or Morphos then you are missing out,

What's the point of trying, if someone has already decided he won't like it?

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: about change of CPU & board redesign. To me it seems it was a lot of work to make SB600 to work with PA6T. With more modern CPU SoC you most likely do not need SB600. .......

Hi Kimmok -

The SB600 is very much relevant, even with the newer PPCs coming out of Freescale and Applied Micro.

The SB600 provides:
- hi-def audio (not on any SOCs)
- 4 SATA II ports (most SOCs provide one or maybe two, often one or both lost to something else important)
- PCI bus expansion (SOCs provide none)
- USB (more ports than SOCs)
- ethernet (duplicated on SOCs)

Once the drivers are finalized for the X1000 these are entirely re-usable for possible future CPU upgrades.

The PA6T provides a lot of PCI-Express lanes (up to 24?). On the X1000 these are divided among 4 PCI-Express slots and the SB600 I believe. To replace this many lanes would require going with one of Freescale's newest QoriQ processors - something like the T2080 (16 lanes) or T4240 (32 lanes).

The QoriQ T series looks a lot like a next-generation PA6T. Simiilar building blocks, apparently similar internal architecture. Perhaps some migration/licensing has happened from when PA-Semi imploded?

Last edited by gregthecanuck on 16-Aug-2012 at 09:32 AM.
Last edited by gregthecanuck on 16-Aug-2012 at 09:31 AM.

@gregthecanuck

"entirely re-usable for possible future CPU upgrades."

IIRC, on PA6T serdes lines were fully programmable to adapt to about any chip.
I do not know if new PPC chips are that well programmable.
>- hi-def audio (not on any SOCs)
Yes. We "just" lack drivers for that.
Another option would be dedicated audio chip (possibly with better quality?).

>- 4 SATA II ports (most SOCs provide one or maybe two, often one or both lost to something else important)

Yes. Low end PPCs have only one "free" SATA port. Enough for low end (IMO).
T1042 has four PCIe and 2 free (+2SATA) should be enough for mid range (IMO, again).
(Developer Reference Manual does not seem to be out yet for T1042/T2080)

>- PCI bus expansion (SOCs provide none)

I would opt to leave PCI out if PCIe is available.
(actually I rather see bacplane and CPU board separated to enable flexibility to configure mid range - high end setups. high end could have PCIe-PCIe and PCIe-PCI bridges)

>- USB (more ports than SOCs)
Yes. SoC usually have two, so hub would be needed.

>- ethernet (duplicated on SOCs)
yes. There's plenty on SOCs, even 10Gbit (I hope to see 10Gbit on Amiga next high end).

If SB600 is cheap and if it adapts nicely to next gen PPCs, then ok.
But we need those affordable (simple to build + test) boards to get more user potential (and we need SW).

(btw. it would be nice to see a detailed block diagram of nemo board. but I quess Varisys wants not to release it, in case they deside to go for world domination with their design.. )

Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Aug-2012 at 10:17 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Aug-2012 at 10:14 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@nimrod7

Quote:

The professional user needs more and more raw power, the ordinary user does not need it.

Sorry but this is nonsense. I'm not a professional user, yet I would die of old age if I tried to convert my CD collection to MP3 on my Sam! Neither I'm happy about having a jerky DVD playback (which keeps me embarrassed before my PC friends), or videos using up all CPU time. Relating raw power with professional use does not really work - it is needed in everyday computing nowadays.

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@Trixie

"I would die of old age if I tried to convert my CD collection to MP3 on my Sam! "

As SAM440 can convert to MP3 faster than real time, it seems you have some CD material that you do not have time to listen.

Some amount of RAW power is needed for fun to use basic system.
1Ghz single core chip without Altivec is not enough for everything, unless we manage to get some boost from some co-processor.

((reminds why some find pentium 300Mhz caliber ARM device to be usable, if it uses HW acceleration from co-processor, it can do things like DVD playback, except that it does not have SATA or IDE or.... oh well, grazy world?))

(It seems that mainstream has found that 1.4ghz dualcore can be enough, at least for laptop.(AMD E1-1200 1.4 GHz, Intel Core i3-2367M 1.4 GHz, and yes I know x86 nowdays does more per Mhz))

Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Aug-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Aug-2012 at 11:51 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK


Quote:

It seems that mainstream has found that 1.4ghz dualcore can be enough

That's because the mainstream has OpenCL,Directcompute and, Cuda.

_________________
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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

@realize

Quote:

They should have went with "Project moana" and had os4 on mac ppc like morphos team did.

+1

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@KimmoK

Quote:

it seems you have some CD material that you do not have time to listen.

Time, or the nerve Ever tried listening to Shostakovich's Eight Symphony? Now you know

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@terminills

"OpenCL,Directcompute and, Cuda."

Yep. We need SW, not just HW.

@"They should have went with "Project moana" and had os4 on mac ppc like morphos team did. "

Then all resources would have gone in trying to support undocumented HW and we would have no new HW to buy, no place to put latest GPUs in, etc. etc. AOS4 would not be in much better situation anyway.

I hope x1000 will teach a lot and next HW will be more mature (has drivers) and available (+cheaper).

But if they could have bought the HAL from MOS team ....

btw. Moana was not from AOS4 core developer team, and Amiga Inc stopped moana. When it seems that we have not got cheap low end yet, perhaps Moana team should try to negotiate, if they have the R&D manpower on the loose.

Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Aug-2012 at 01:13 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 16-Aug-2012 at 01:12 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@TrevorDick Quote:

rising PA-SEMI CPU (~100%) prices

I have to say (from earlier interviews/articles) I had the impression you'd (somehow) already bought all the CPUs you would need for the planned production of X1000s, because the CPU was so rare. So either you are producing more X1000s than originally expected, or I misunderstood?

@AmigaDave Quote:

Personally, I think that the demand for this specialty computer that was only intended for Power Amiga Users & Developers, is much higher than anyone anticipated.

That explanation would fit, if they are producing more X1000s than originally planned.

@Jorkany Quote:

No-one has received units from the second production run.

Errrr, YES they have. Didn't you read what AmigaKit wrote earlier?:

Quote:

The second production manufacturing run has already been completed. We have been receiving boards on a weekly basis as they are being quality tested by Varisys in sub-batches. We then in turn assemble the systems to customer's specification. We envisage distributing these systems ongoing until late Q3/2012.

Also, way back in JUNE, someone from the "second batch" also confirmed they had received their X1000:
http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=822&p=14179&hilit=second+batch#p14179

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Amiga_3k

Quote:

The good news is, more X1000s are being assembled and delivered at this time. The awesome news is that the price did not rise despite the higher production cost. This last part is an insane business model but also show dedication to the platform and its users. Now that deserves a big thumbs up instead of complaining about the rarity of the system and its components.

I agree with this completely. A big thank you to Trevor and anyone else seeing this risky, costly project through in spite of all obstacles just so we can keep on keeping on for a time longer.

_________________

Look! I see life!

Products

1 x 2GB RAM (AmigaOne X1000)
Status: OK 08/16/2012

1 x AmigaOne X1000
- OS Installed: 4.1 Update 5
- Hard Disk (SATA): 1 TB (1024GB)
- Memory: 4 GB *
- Graphics Card: Radeon HD 4850 1GB
- Extra Port(s): Serial Debug Port
- Case: White
- Accessories: None
- Optical Drive (SATA): DVDRW

Status: Being Assembled 08/16/2012

_________________
AmigaOne X1000

@ddni

Nice

_________________
Amiga600/Vampire2/PrismaMegaMix

@ddni

Quote:

Look! I see life! 1 x AmigaOne X1000 - OS Installed: 4.1 Update 5 - Hard Disk (SATA): 1 TB (1024GB) - Memory: 4 GB * - Graphics Card: Radeon HD 4850 1GB - Extra Port(s): Serial Debug Port - Case: White - Accessories: None - Optical Drive (SATA): DVDRW Status: Being Assembled 08/16/2012

you lucky b*$!@^&....

enjoy it in good health, and let us know your impressions when it arrives!

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Kronos "Creating a "new" product on such a chip requires "some nerve"." It was/is the best chip for PPC available and X1000 should be the fastest system for AOS. If it is the price worth must everybody decide for himself/herself

It's by far not the fastest PPC. The aged 970 (aka G5) is way faster in most domains. Even the e600 core is faster in many regards than the PA6T. My choice a few years back was all for the 86xx. The mem controller isn't as fast as the one of the PA6T, but the core is proven, the e600 altivec unit unreached and the price comparatively low.
In essence: The computer would have costed about 1/3 of the X1000 delivering about the same performance.
If trevor had contacted bplan for doing that work, they would probably liked to deliver (they did actually quite a ot of work on the 86xx). 970 based systems were available a while ago, too.

_________________
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MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@KimmoK

Quote:

If SB600 is cheap and if it adapts nicely to next gen PPCs, then ok.

That's the key. It (should be/is) cheap and takes up minimum board real-estate. Drivers should be done at some point so X1000 and future users don't need add-on cards as a workaround. That cost can be "sunk" once and carried forward to future M/B revisions.

I can't find any reference docs either.

Cheers!

@Zylesea

I might agree with you that a cheaper PPC computer could have been designed and produced by bPlan with a different PPC CPU, but there is no way you could know for certain if the cost could have been "about 1/3 of the X1000". Making a statement like that, without qualifying it as just an opinion of yours, like it is fact, is sure to rile up some people, who are sure to see it as just a Blue vs. Red attack. It is quite insulting toward Trevor and A-Eon/Varisys.

I thought we were past this kind of stuff.

_________________
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@Zylesea

Quote:

It's by far not the fastest PPC. The aged 970 (aka G5) is way faster in most domains. Even the e600 core is faster in many regards than the PA6T. My choice a few years back was all for the 86xx. The mem controller isn't as fast as the one of the PA6T, but the core is proven, the e600 altivec unit unreached and the price comparatively low. ...

If/when Trevor decides to go with a "Mark II" design on the motherboard I would expect him to go with Freescale's current T-series. The 86xx chips (dual-core 1.5GHz) are priced at around $400 in 100-unit quantities on Freescale's site.

The new E6500 cores are much faster in all respects than the 86xx series. Lower power, dual-threaded 64bit cores, Gen 3 PCI-Express, insane memory bandwidth, etc... Plus there is a family of chips you can work with, some socket compatible. Have no idea on pricing but the T2080 should be (in theory) comparable in price to the 8641D.

I'm taking this thread off-topic (sorry guys). I'm happy to yabber on some more if someone feels the need - we can open a new topic.

@ddni

Quote:

ddni wrote: Look! I see life! Products 1 x 2GB RAM (AmigaOne X1000) Status: OK 08/16/2012 1 x AmigaOne X1000 - OS Installed: 4.1 Update 5 - Hard Disk (SATA): 1 TB (1024GB) - Memory: 4 GB * - Graphics Card: Radeon HD 4850 1GB - Extra Port(s): Serial Debug Port - Case: White - Accessories: None - Optical Drive (SATA): DVDRW Status: Being Assembled 08/16/2012

I can match that:

Quote:

1 x EasyNet (Amiga CD) Status: OK $11.92 1 x AmigaOne X1000 - OS Installed: 4.1 Update 5 - Optical Drive (SATA): DVDRW - Memory: 2GB - Hard Disk (SATA): 1 TB (1024GB) - Graphics Card: Radeon HD 5450 1GB - Extra Port(s): None - Case: Black - Accessories: Boing Ball Keyboard & Mouse Status: Being Assembled 08/16/2012

OK, I skimped on the RAM and graphics card.

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AmigaOne X1000, A4000(T), A3000, A2000, A1200(T), A1200, A500, CD32, Minimig+ARM, FPGA Arcade, Chameleon64, C-One, C128, C128D, C64C, C64, VIC-20, CBM 8032, CBM4032, Efika, Ultimate64