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      /  Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
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HenryCase 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 10:08:16
#61 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@Jupp3
Quote:
Jupp3 wrote:
Quote:
ARM devices outnumber x86/x64 devices by a large margin

How many of those are:
1)Really usable at ALL for desktop OS (remove from list "obvious devices", like everything without (a way to add) display, for example)


How much would you be looking to pay? Set me a target price and I'll tell you what devices are available around that price.

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Kicko 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 11:09:47
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5006
From: Sweden

@Fab

Impressive :)

Last edited by Kicko on 15-Nov-2011 at 11:52 AM.

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Jupp3 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 12:46:13
#63 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@HenryCase

Quote:
How much would you be looking to pay? Set me a target price and I'll tell you what devices are available around that price.

How about "faster than currently (relatively easily) supportable PPC devices", say, quad G5? Low to mid end is already pretty well covered with 2nd hand macs.

Not that I would need that speed, but many seem to think that even G5 is "too slow" by "current standards".

Or for low end system (sub-GHz), I'd expect to pay 20-40 euros for such tower cased PowerMac. How much is "equivalent" ARM? (speed / form - expandable tower case)

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Kronos 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 12:46:26
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2091
From: Unknown

@HenryCase/Jupp

Noone cares whats suitable in ARM today, what will be avaiable in a few years is what counts.

Take Genesi's SmartBook for which they are preparing an update right now (yeah I know B&BRV but still HW is HW). Now think ahead a few years.

Win8 moving to ARM will most likely see more NetBooks or small-footprint desktops appearing.

Heck there is even the wild rumor that the MacBook-Air will be running iOS in a few generations (and will therefore be most likely be ARM based).

Wether you could jailbreak these devices to a point that allows an otterOS is to be seen.

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Crumb 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 15:28:40
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@HenryCase

Quote:
Of course it helps to build software with portability in mind from the start, but to state it's going to be expensive for all developers to support ARM is completely false.


There are also 3rd party components that may only run on x86, drivers for many devices...

Quote:
How many of those companies are likely to upgrade their OS any time soon either?


Many of them because when they bought newer pcs they are forced to upgrade. I see dozens of 3Ghz pentium4 computers with XP going to the trashcan.

Quote:
Average consumers may not care much about the CPU, but they do care about the features it can unlock.For example, imagine having a laptop with a 24 hr battery life. Considering most computer users spend their life on the Internet, having a smartbook (ARM-based netbook) would not limit their computing, and may end up enhancing it.


Intel machines already offer 7hours easily. It's enough. Do you think intel&amd are sleeping?

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redrumloa 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 15:36:39
#66 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:
Most G5 I have seen have a suggested pricing around 350USD (for single core and below the 2Ghz point). I don't think that the amount justifies the expense for an outsider of our community, because you have to add up the cost of MOS as well. IMHO for 99.99% of ppl a 450USD hobby system is as rational as the forthcoming low end ppc nettbook for AOS.


What? Huh? No sense comparing a PowerMac G5 with a Limebook, it is like comparing apples and oranges. If you want to compare to an OS4 related hardware, compare it to the ($3,000) X1000.

Where are you seeing prices of $350 for a single core G5 PowerMac under 2Ghz? I can get them all day for under $200 and if I take my time for about $100. For about $350 I can find a top end quad core 2.7Ghz model.

Last edited by redrumloa on 15-Nov-2011 at 03:39 PM.

_________________
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800Mhz, 1.5GB RAM, Radeon 8500
MorphOS 2.7 (Registered)
$225 total spent!

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 15:37:14
#67 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

Intel will easily dominate over ARM when it comes to performance... Probably even performance/battery life ratio. Hell, maybe even battery life outright(if nothing, because Intel powered machines will be more expansive and thus more likely to have a better battery included). The only chance for ARM on desktops is on the cheaper side.
I can see 64 bit ARM chips doing well on the server market, but home computing will likely stay the dominion of the x86_64.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 15:41:27
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10736
From: Norway

@Kronos

Yes there are lots of things happening on ARM this days.

Notebooks / Netbooks / Tablet pc's, I think most of ARM stuff is mobile devices.

There are PowerPC that are as good but ARM stuff comes whit hardware acceleration for multimedia.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 15:50:10
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10736
From: Norway

@Crumb

Quote:
I see dozens of 3Ghz pentium4 computers with XP going to the trashcan


Because there are people out there don't know how to format and install a OS.

Quote:
Intel machines already offer 7hours easily.


Whit when don't use computer and running at half speed, whit hard-drive turned off, dozed display etc all power saving modes on.

Quote:
It's enough. Do you think intel&amd are sleeping?


Intel and AMD chips are power hungry you don't wont that in a mobile device, Intel and AMD has been focusing on going faster and faster as long as I can remember, while there air and water cooling system are getting bigger and bigger and more efficient using heat pipes.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 15:53:48
#70 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1252
From: CRO

@NutsAboutAmiga

Every new Intel architecture in the last few years has been more energy efficient than the previous one.
And they will, in the future, make high performance SoCs (Haswell for ultrabooks and other mobile devices) that sip a very small amount of power but offer significantly better performance than what is available today(from x86, not even speaking of ARM).

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 15-Nov-2011 at 06:07 PM.

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Crumb 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 18:23:58
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Mar-2003
Posts: 2208
From: Zaragoza (Aragonian State)

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Because there are people out there don't know how to format and install a OS.


Simply because Microsoft will stop supporting XP sooner than Windows7 and it's better to use and develop for latest version to avoid problems.

Quote:
Whit when don't use computer and running at half speed, whit hard-drive turned off, dozed display etc all power saving modes on.


And even in power saving mode these are faster than ARM.

Quote:
Intel and AMD chips are power hungry you don't wont that in a mobile device


intel&AMD offer different models from low-power netbook-like to high-end server cpus.

Quote:
Intel and AMD has been focusing on going faster and faster as long as I can remember, while there air and water cooling system are getting bigger and bigger and more efficient using heat pipes.


It seems last time you touched an intel machine pentium4 was something "new"

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HenryCase 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 20:20:41
#72 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Nov-2007
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@Jupp3

Quote:
Jupp3 wrote:
How about "faster than currently (relatively easily) supportable PPC devices", say, quad G5? Low to mid end is already pretty well covered with 2nd hand macs.


Sure, no problem. Raw CPU performance figures on the Quad G5 CPU is hard to come by, the only place I found something usable for comparison was an Amiga forum:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=572362&postcount=60

The PPC970 (a.k.a. G5) has a DMIPS/MHz score of 2.9. Now compare this to the upcoming Cortex-A15:
http://armdevices.net/2011/03/16/arm-cortex-a15-might-be-40-faster-than-cortex-a9-at-same-mhz-and-number-of-cores/
Quote:
This means that the ST-Ericsson’s tweaked implementation of the Cortex-A15 can reach at least 4.01 DMIPS/MHz


This ignores the other benefits that ARM-based SoC designs bring (lower power draw, superior GPU performance), just on a CPU performance level alone the Cortex-A15 is faster than the G5. Bear in mind that the Cortex-A15 also supports quad core designs.

Quote:
Jupp3 wrote:
Or for low end system (sub-GHz), I'd expect to pay 20-40 euros for such tower cased PowerMac. How much is "equivalent" ARM? (speed / form - expandable tower case)


Low end for that price range would be something like the Raspberry Pi:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/
$25/$35 is about €18.50/€26.00 at current exchange rates, and we're talking about a device small enough to put in a keyboard, that runs without a fan, that can easily output 1080p content:
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=25&From=USD&To=EUR
http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert/?Amount=35&From=USD&To=EUR

Questions?

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vox 
Re: Presentation of MorphOS 3.x at Alchemy
Posted on 15-Nov-2011 21:13:21
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@thread

ARM and x86 path was mentioned as possible future,
so no need to discuss it really. ARM is better for handheld devices and modern smartphones because its cheap, x86 rules the desktop. MOS for all when it comes

Now, lets greet all the major and small improvements mentioned that drive MOS again one step ahead! from video thumbnails to Cairo, full Mac usage to Radeon 9800 drivers its all good good news! Congrats to the team, makes one really want to use it!

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