@Franko

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Now that was all fine and dandy a loooong time ago but in these days of enlightened times, better education & more understanding of our world, life, the universe and how it all works

That's what wrong with our society. You think we have it all figured out, and yet the more we discover the more we realise how pitiful humanities knowledge and accomplishments really are. We cannot even balance the need to get a growing economy with conserving the Earth's natural resources for example. The current economic situation is just what the Green's were saying we needed to stop the runaway erosion of Earth's biodiversity and ecosystems and yet humanity grumbles and dreams of riches were people can get rich simply by waiting for their houses to rise in price!

What exactly created the Big Bang? Energy from nowhere?! Another dimension? Totally unprovable science. And you think we have ALL the answers?

In other news the Green Party offloads a councillor that stood up for 'marriage' and pro-life issues. What has destroying marriage got to do with the Green Party central drive of saving the environment?!

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9934167.Green_councillor_s_expulsion_could_lead_to_Brighton_council_shake_up/

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It ruled her decision to speak and vote against equal marriage did not “constitute sufficient grounds” for disciplinary action against her. However, the panel’s results, which have been seen by The Argus, claim the decision was taken on the grounds of her wider behaviour, which included her taking part in public anti-abortion vigils outside Wistons clinic in Dyke Road, Brighton.

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@Thread

In other great news Australia votes against the Redefinition of Marriage;



Telegraph: Gay Marriage Bill defeated in Australia

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The Senate today voted against the private members bill sponsored by Labor backbenchers by 41 votes to 26. It comes after the lower house yesterday rejected a separate private members bill by 98 votes to 42.

Let's pray for similar common sense here in the UK.

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@BigD

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BigD wrote: @Franko yet humanity grumbles and dreams of riches were people can get rich simply by waiting for their houses to rise in price!

Typical of you eh... I don't think the Council would be happy if we all sold off their houses... :-p

Why do you assume EVERYONE owns a house !!!

Kinda shows your ignorance and typical upper middle class beliefs and views you have of society when you post such stupid ignorant comments (along with the hundreds of other moronic comments you've posted here...

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What exactly created the Big Bang? Energy from nowhere?! Another dimension? Totally unprovable science.

Erm... why ask me !!!

I don't believe in that bullshit either...

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And you think we have ALL the answers?

Care to point out where I made such a claim !!!

Why do you ALWAYS try and TWIST what other people say here !!! and read things from peoples posts that they never actually said or claimed ???

Are you really the badly educated that you can't comprehend simple words and sentences and have to make up in your own wee mind what you THINK others are saying and think everybody is in the same "social class" as you, with the same income, beliefs, morals, standards, principals, lifestyle and in your case ignorance !!!

Gawd... sometimes get the feeling you really are posting from the mental wing of some old asylum , stop banging yer head of the walls (even if they are padded) it's rattling yer wee brain cell about too much and making you imagine things...

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@BigD

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The Americans in the article who want to destroy marriage obviously don't take their bible seriously

We heard your same arguement against allowing interracial marriage. We heard your same arguement against allowing women as the leaders in church. God may be all knowing but he's apparently incapable of writing a book with clarity when it comes to morals.

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But to twist it and edit it, disregard the bits you don't like and still call yourself a Christian; that is scandalous.

Nah that's the history of Christianity. You have demonstrated that you're not very knowledgeable on church history. Ever head of the Nicaean Council? Do you know what happened there and how Christianity was changed? Here's a start with reviewing The 7 Councils


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it all becomes too much of a chore to actually READ the Bible

Have you read the Bible? The book is horrid! Characters are flat and uninteresting. Stories are disjointed. Timelines are 'flashback' lists to Jesus forefathers are inconsistent. And if a historic record some gross mistakes are made - bats aren't birds and unicorns don't exist. Though the porn sections are probably better than 50 Shades of Grey. Strangely a loving diety starts out lying to humanity. For being wise God doesn't always display that virtue. Oh and he needs an editor God's a crappy author.

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He has nothing for disdain for people that support marriage

Expansion of marriage is support of marriage. It supports marriage by making it available to people who want to sign up for a lifetime of commitment no matter whom they love.

Last edited by BrianK on 21-Sep-2012 at 12:28 PM.

@BigD

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What exactly created the Big Bang? Energy from nowhere?! Another dimension? Totally unprovable science.

The logic you are using is that everything must have a cause and therefore if the Big Bang is the start of the universe doesn't that cause have a cause? The same logic applies to God What exactly created God? Energy from nowhere?! Beings from another dimension? Totally unproveable ideas.

@BrianK

In fairness, I don't think BigD is capable of simple logic.

His ranting and raving has started to reach new levels of lunacy. He is batshit crazy.

AndyC

@BigD

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If you wrote "Space Druid is a god" on a piece of A4 paper and put it in a time-capsule, I doubt human's in 2,000 years time (assuming Jesus hasn't returned by then and brought all of history to a close) are going to take your claims that seriously!

The difference between today and the 4th Century is the only people capable of reading and writing back then were members of the church. Random people would not be given that privilege for another 1800 years.

And I point out the person bringing this evidence to light is Hollis Professor of Divinity, Harvard Divinity School Karen King.

The is their page on this subject

The page includes a Q&A for those wondering how the fragment came into their possession, why it's regarded as authentic, etc

Harvard Divinity School sole purpose is to study religion. There isn't anywhere more competent to talk about the subject outside of the secret vaults in Vatican City, certainly far more qualified than "Jim West, a professor and Baptist pastor in Tennessee" you or I. So if you are going to do your usual truck of trying to discredit the person by claiming they aren't Christian enough, or that they haven't read the Bible thoroughly enough, then you are onto a no winner there.




And Doctor Who, Jonathan Edwards ( the UK Triple Jumper), the Green Party, runaway erosion of Earth's biodiversity and ecosystems (Much of which is invested heavily by the Catholic Church, just throwing that in there), the Big Bang, totally unprovable science (I think you meant to say, totally beyond your comprehension, not unprovable, we've already talked about the scientific principle remember, that's the bit where the grown ups speak and you nod your head pretending to understand what we are saying)?


Just how far off the subject are you prepared to go to avoid answering all the questions put to you?


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And you think we have ALL the answers?

We are well aware we don't, that's why science exists. Since it does though, we now have some of the answers. Previously we knew none.

Science 1,000,000,000
BigD Nil

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 21-Sep-2012 at 02:27 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 21-Sep-2012 at 02:15 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 21-Sep-2012 at 02:15 PM.

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@BrianK

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Have you read the Bible? The book is horrid! Characters are flat and uninteresting. Stories are disjointed. Timelines are 'flashback' lists to Jesus forefathers are inconsistent. And if a historic record some gross mistakes are made - bats aren't birds and unicorns don't exist. Though the porn sections are probably better than 50 Shades of Grey. Strangely a loving diety starts out lying to humanity. For being wise God doesn't always display that virtue. Oh and he needs an editor God's a crappy author.

I believe the person that (last) edited the Bible was the same guy who programmed HAL. When HAL tries to follow his instructions he gets conflicting data and starts killing everyone.

Funnily enough, that's EXACTLY what happens in the Bible!

Moses 1.0

10 Thou shalt not kill.
20 He that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.

ERROR, ERROR DOES NOT COMPUTE!

3500 years of religious wars and murders later...

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 21-Sep-2012 at 02:33 PM.

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@BigD

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Blah, blah, blah.. so called Christians go against Biblical teachings and support gay marriage?!? The Americans in the article who want to destroy marriage obviously don't take their bible seriously! By all means give up on your faith like Jonathan Edwards ( the UK Triple Jumper) when it all becomes too much of a chore to actually READ the Bible. But to twist it and edit it, disregard the bits you don't like and still call yourself a Christian; that is scandalous.

You still haven't told us what sort of right you have to decide who is and is not a Christian. Who died and made you pope, exactly?

And as for you condemning editing and cherry-picking bits from the Bible, that is just the pot calling the kettle. You are the one who has decided to take one little irrelevant bit of Levitican law and turn it into this grand crusade of hate, while similarly ignoring the rest of the Levitican laws. Presumably this is because its 'inconvenient' to avoid mixed fabrics, its too much of a chore to campaign against the eating of shellfish and its too politically incorrect to advocate stoning to death anyone who works on the sabbath.

Its because of this inconsistency that we call you a bigot. And no, I'm not going to apologise for using that word.

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Do we believe him? No we don't. The Deputy Prime Minister is not capable of fulfilling his job description. He has nothing for disdain for people that support marriage and he obviously can't believe that anyone would have the audacity to challenge his deeply unpopular and divisive views on redefining marriage. He should be removed from office or ordered to sing his 'I'm Sorry' song in public!

I'm sorry? Nick Clegg has been the loudest voice in politics in defense of people who support marriage.

Its only bigots like you who want to keep it where it is, on a one-way route to irrelevance and extinction. And the Deputy Prime Minister, I'm glad to say, is not answerable to you. Also, nowhere in his job description does it say that he is required to please you. In fact, the angrier he makes you and your fellow bigots, the more support he is likely to regain from his core vote.

And while we're on the subject of support, how many signatures has your little petition got now? 1% of the population? Minus the unknown number that are trolls, jokes or Amigaworld.net members proving how worthless the petition is, of course. Yeah, I can see how hugely popular your opinion is there. Heheh.

@BigD

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What exactly created the Big Bang? Energy from nowhere?! Another dimension? Totally unprovable science. And you think we have ALL the answers?

You call yourself a scientist?

What exactly created God? Energy from nowhere?! Another Dimension? Totally unprovable mysticism. And you think you have ALL the answers?

@SpaceDruid

HAL reference was great. It's interesting how quickly the Bible gets out conflicting with itself. All knowing dieties appears to wipe out logic?

@T-J

Really Christian's aren't following Leviticus. Here's what 20:13 says
"And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" We don't see Christians killing homosexuals as they're commanded to do in the Old Testament.

Though harkening back to SpaceDruid's point the earlier chapter (Exodus) is where God tells us that killing is wrong. Then in the next chapter (Leviticus) he gives us all sorts of laws on how and who to kill. Strange. Though it probably harkens back to a language translation issue. My understanding is a better translation is 'though shall not make an unlawful killing'. Though, what a fairly worthless law is that! If the killing is unlawful it's wrong isn't it? Why would a diety need to repeat a law that's already on the books. Again omniscient appears to come with illogical behaviors.

@BigD

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so called Christians go against Biblical teachings and support gay marriage

Just who the hell do you think you are that you can determine who is and who isn't a christian. I have no doubt whatsoever that in years to come, you will cite these same people as the ones responsible for the benefits that they brought to the world, in the same way that you cite Wilberforce for ending slavery while ignoring the actions of other bigoted individuals who, like yourself, acted as though they have the almighty in their back pocket, ready to be used as a weapon whenever the opportunity arises.

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Quote: Now that was all fine and dandy a loooong time ago but in these days of enlightened times, better education & more understanding of our world, life, the universe and how it all works That's what wrong with our society.

So basically you think it will all work better if we just stop thinking. Typical theocrat, hates people who can think. Once upon a time the Islamic world was at the forefront of art and science. Then a religious nut stated that mathematics was the language of the devil, and these days they are still stoning people to death on the say so of somebody who needs no evidence. There is a case at the moment of a mullah who has been caught out tearing pages from the koran to frame a christian girl on charges of blasphemy. Is this how you want the justice system in this country to work. We tried it once before and ended up throwing the puritans out.

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What exactly created the Big Bang? Energy from nowhere?! Another dimension? Totally unprovable science. And you think we have ALL the answers?

Never claimed to have all of the answers, science is very much a "work in progress", however, unlike religion science has at least managed to come up with someof the answers. For example a bat is a mammal, and not a type of bird.
If you remove all of the technical aspects from the big bang theory and simplify it to the most basic, childlike level you wind up with
"In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded, and became everything"
This comment has been simplified to such an extent that it actually says nothing, and ends up sounding almost religious. The fact that you are not able to understand the proofs doesn't mean either that they are incomprehensible or are not proofs. It merely indicates that you have a similarity to two short planks.

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@BigD

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BigD wrote: @Franko What exactly created the Big Bang? Energy from nowhere?! Another dimension? Totally unprovable science. And you think we have ALL the answers?

Seeing as how I already said I don't believe in that codswallop either, I thought at least I should explain why I don't think much about the "Big Bang Theory"...

There was no "Big Bang" that's the equivalent dumb assed theory put forward by the "Scientifuc community" to somehow try and explain why we're all here just like religious nuts like yourself say Gawd created everything...

Just like no-one in the scientific community can ever prove the "Big Bang Theory" and that everything came from an exploding singularity, or in the religious community that Gawd created it all, neither community can ever prove their chosen "Theory" to be right...

It's all a load of bollocks basically, numpties saying things they can never prove and for what I ask !!!

You're here, you live, you die... just ruddy well make the best of it while you can and forget about why the frig were here in the fist place cos it's ruddy pointless (bit like life itself I suppose)...

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@BigD

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What exactly created the Big Bang? Energy from nowhere?! Another dimension? Totally unprovable science. And you think we have ALL the answers?

the doctor battled an alien race (cybermen if i recall) culmination with the ship exploding killing addrick and triggering the big bang (see ep earthshock)

oh you were being serious? don't know wasn't there(nor would i want to.

Last edited by jkirk on 22-Sep-2012 at 01:09 PM.
Last edited by jkirk on 22-Sep-2012 at 01:08 PM.

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@jkirk

Your reference to the Big Bang;
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don't know wasn't there(nor would i want to.

Wow, honesty at last! Someone admitts that they might not know if the Big Bang happened or not because "THEY WEREN'T THERE"!

Now consider for a minute that God was there and proceeded to tell humanity the important parts of creation, information about his character and why we're here, as well as giving us a guide on how to live our lives in the Bible. That is what he did so we can know how without wondering and postulating that we are no more valuable than aged amoeba and actually govern, live and prosper knowing that each human has inbuilt value because we are made in the image of God.

That doesn't mean we should accept every perversion that befalls humanity without question, because somethings are to our detriment as we are living in a fallen world and are no longer in Eden! Homosexual relationships will never be entirely comparable to marriage however much the BBC and the liberal elite wish it. They have inheritance rights and the ability to live in peace and free from police intervention. For a life choice that doesn't do the rest of society an ounce of good that is a pretty good deal. Saying that we shouldn't be promoting it as a valid life choice for our children at school as it is likely to lead to a lower life expectancy and a life riddled with disease and promiscuity.

Last edited by BigD on 22-Sep-2012 at 01:31 PM.

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@BigD

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BigD wrote: @jkirk Your reference to the Big Bang; Quote: don't know wasn't there(nor would i want to. Wow, honesty at last! Someone admitts that they might not know if the Big Bang happened or not because "THEY WEREN'T THERE"! Now consider for a minute that God...

Consider this then...

If your so called Gawd was there, he certainly never told humanity why they are here other than to procreate and blindly worship him, that's hardly "important" nor does it answer any questions about creation and the point of it other than to procreate and rub his inflated ego...

Kinda pervy that aint it, "oooh look at me, I'm the almighty do as I say, kill in my name those who don't believe in me, build churches and spread the word and give your money to the church so it's leaders can live with luxuries that none of you deserve and if you do everything I say then when your dead I might let you into my version of Disnyland... but don't build your hopes up... Signed Gawd"...

Religion & crackpot Science, they both have one thing in common... they like to gibber shite about things they can never prove...

PS:Where YOU there when your Gawd first appeared... nope... YOU WEREN"T THERE EITHER...

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@BigD

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Someone admitts that they might not know if the Big Bang happened or not because "THEY WEREN'T THERE"!

First science has many possibilities. Second if "THEY WEREN'T THERE" is your criteria then you can neither claim to know. At best have an oral history and written story about a god that makes a claim. But, again there are many possibilities there. If you take your same book and read on, just a bit more, you'll find a 2nd creation story. And one whose list of order and methods incongruent with the first.

@BigD

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Wow, honesty at last! Someone admitts that they might not know if the Big Bang happened or not because "THEY WEREN'T THERE"!

Big Bang Theory. The last bit is important.

While we weren't there, the echoes and traces of an explosion exist all around us. A percentage of the static on your TV or radio, the separation and movement of galaxies showing they all come from a central point. The fact the further back in time you look via Hubble showing the early makeup of the universe, etc There is quite a lot of evidence to support a big bang theory. That's why it's a theory and not a belief. The scientific principle remember?

Of course that doesn't make it a fact, it's a theory. But there is far more evidence to support this, than the beliefs of people 4000 - 6000 years ago that put into place the words in the book you claim to hold dear. They didn't even know the Earth revolved around the Sun or that the Americas existed.

And of course they weren't there either.


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That is what he did so we can know how without wondering and postulating that we are no more valuable than aged amoeba and actually govern, live and prosper knowing that each human has inbuilt value because we are made in the image of God.

And what image is that precisely? Black African, yellow Asian, red North American, brown Indian or white European? And why does God need an appendix and the remains of a tail? And if we are in his image, presumably God suffers from cancer, blindness, deafness, downs syndrome, hole in the heart, and dwarfism. These are after all genetic traits, not diseases so we must have got them directly from God (none of them are genetically new, they've existed in human DNA for tens of, of not hundreds - sorry, 6000 years. That's when God made us isn't it).

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That doesn't mean we should accept every perversion that befalls humanity without question,

That's right. That's why people are increasingly abandoning organised religion, intolerance, bigotry, racism, fear mongering and ignorance.

Now that we are, we can finally do something about these genetic defects that God gave us.

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@SpaceDruid

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Of course that doesn't make it a fact, it's a theory. But there is far more evidence to support this...

Wow!

We're making progress! You've acknowledged that it's a theory and not fact! Why then is it taught in our secondary schools as fact?

Why are we also sleepwalking into a situation where 'homosexual marriage' would be taught in our schools as on par with marriage and just another life choice? Despite all the statistics that show the homosexual lifestyle would damage the children and in all eventuality reduce their life expectancy should they get involved in it! This that responsible?

Last edited by BigD on 22-Sep-2012 at 07:45 PM.

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@BigD

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We're making progress! You've acknowledged that it's a theory and not fact! Why then is it taught in our secondary schools as fact?

Because it is internally self consistent (That means it doesn't contradict itself every other paragraph) and unlike the fairy stories that you keep touting it is supported by evidence, and it cannot be used by morally bankrupt individuals as justification for preaching hate for one minority, while defending privilege for your own minority. Gathering evidence for a scientific theory is like solving a murder in a crime novel. The only actual witnesses are the victim who cannot give evidence, and the murderer who will deny any involvement. The detective gathers evidence that places the suspect at the scene of the crime, at the time of the crime, and establishes a motive for the crime. In this way the murder is solved even though the detective was not actually there to witness the crime. But of course you wouldn't actually know anything about the scientific method of following the evidence, preferring to solve the crime using trial by ordeal.

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Why are we also sleepwalking into a situation where 'homosexual marriage' would be taught in our schools as on par with marriage and just another life choice

We are not approaching such a situation. What we are doing is preparing to teach children that they need have no fear of persecution, just because they are different. We will also teach children that persecution of others is wrong. I am aware that this contradicts your chosen world view, but it is supposed to be in keeping with what is laughably referred to as "christian values". It is just a shame that the historical evidence of christianity has so little 'christian virtue' in it.

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This that responsible?

??? I will assume that you are asking "Is that responsibe" and repeat that the evidence of christianitys record implies that the only responsible response to christianity is to do everything possible to eradicate the tendency among christians to act in the way they have in the past, and require christians to act as though they actually believed in the teachings of christ, not the homophobic, power crazed ravings of an ambitious Roman who according to the christian myth never met the lead character, but was frequently in dispute with those that did.

Since you seem to believe that every single word in the bible is the gospel truth, I will ask you once again, who did Cain marry? Adam and Eve only had sons, yet after killing his brother Cain wandered off and got married. Was she his sister, or did he nip down the road to a neighbouring creation

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