@BigD

Quote:

The point is Granville Sharp, a Christian in the UK made sure black people never became second class citizens post-slavery whereas no similar Christian figure made that stand in the US and the segregation problems stretched on into the 1960's. The message is clear. If Christians stand up for injustice where they see it, a lot of suffering is spared the society in which they live. By seeking to protect 'marriage' Christians seek to protect millions of children vulnerable to abuse and emotional damage in a heartless and increasing adult focused world. Marriage is the best institution to give children the best start in life and two blokes or two women depriving the children of a mother or father is INEQUALITY at work motivated by selfishness on the part of the homosexual couple themselves. Even Elton John can see it, why can't you?

Take a look around the world. If people stand up for injustice it does get changed. Being Christian has nothing to do with that truism. Well unless you consider Ghandi a Christian, for example. In the case of the Americas not only Christians stood up to Europe but nonreligious people and notably desists as well.

What you assume here is wrong. The existence of gays raising kids does not guarantee abuse. Bad parents and bad people are abusers. Straight Christian birth parents have abused kids too. Not to mention the large scale sex abuses of the Church itself. Disallowing gays does not protect children any better. Wish it were as easy as you believe. It's not.

Why don't I agree with Elton John? He in no way is a person that mandates morals to me. Why does he mandate yours?

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Marriage is the best institution to give children the best start in life and two blokes or two women depriving the children of a mother or father is INEQUALITY at work motivated by selfishness on the part of the homosexual couple themselves. Even Elton John can see it, why can't you? The Daily Mail: It will break my son Zachary's heart the day he realises he hasn't got a mother!

Well, Elton doesn't claim that it is unequal. He expresses a fear that his kid will be sad over not having a mother and perhaps being bullied for having two dads. I think every suitable parent has these concerns, i.e. am I a good parent, will my kid have friends, will he be happy. And the only thing that matters is, will the kid be treated good and be given all the opportunities to have a good life? Nothing else matters in the end.

We should always have the child's best interest in mind. Discriminating a group of people won't magically make that happen.

I'm not overly enthusiastic on the subject of insemination. There are so many parentless children born to this world, so adoption would be an ideal thing. Elton wanted to adopt a kid from Ukraine. However, Ukraine doesn't acknowledge civil marriage, so that wasn't possible (so much for civili marriage being the same thing as marriage). If more countries would be less bigoted in their views on same-sex marriage, more children could have a happy upbringing. But given that the world is full of assholes like you, BigD, I guess we'll never see that happen.

How's that for your view on what's best for the children?

Last edited by jaokim on 29-Sep-2012 at 07:31 PM.

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@jaokim

Just to interject here, the Daily Mail has an outwardly hostile view of gays and of Elton John in particular. One could call it an obsession. Believe anything that rag reports he says with a large dose of bullshit.

This should explain why they treat him the way they do.

I'd thought by now BigD would be weary of posting stories where the story is just out of context quotes sensationalised by the Daily Mail from interviews given to other television networks. it didn't end well the last time he did it.

I'm providing a link to the actual interview he gave to "NBC Today", HERE

See if you peeps think the Daily Mail distorted the truth again and thus tricked BigD into providing another though provoking video to watch that contradicts what he thought again?

And it turns out the comment that the Daily Mail and BigD were so excited about is down to the prejudice that both of them will have on a 4 year old boy. You feeling big again D? People with your views about same sex parent are going to hurt a 4 year old child. Is that what you are after? You can't pick on the adults because they talk back, but a wee kid? What chance does he have against your immorality?

Oh I know what chance he has, if we normalise same sex parents like we did with mixed race parents, 4 year old boys won't be bullied by grown men any more.


I'm a bit puzzled why you didn't bring up the quote Elton gave immediately following that line you quoted, "But he's so happy, I've never seen a more contented child". Why is this?


(Edits to get the link working and fix mishtakes wif me speelin)

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 29-Sep-2012 at 11:16 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 29-Sep-2012 at 11:13 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 29-Sep-2012 at 11:05 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 29-Sep-2012 at 11:03 PM.

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@SpaceDruid

May you all have a goddamn Happy Blasphemy Day

@BrianK

Jesus H. Christ on a Bike, I'd not known about this breath of fresh air. Happy day to you as well you heathen!

"We think religious beliefs should be subject to examination and criticism just as political beliefs are, but we have a taboo on religion,"

Can anyone find fault in that statement? I surely can't.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

Your religious views are self contradictory, you claim the Earth is 6000 years old

I never said that. Again you just make up the comments you'd like to argue against. I do however find it troubling that you know categorically the age of the Earth when the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (MAR) tectonic evidence assumes constant tectonic plate activity and spread rates of 2.5cm a year over 'millions of years' on the basis of a glorified jigsaw puzzle involving Africa's continental shelf outline matching the shape of the South American continental shelf outline! The magnetic banding that gives further age dating pointers assumes a regular switching of the poles. These are hardly water tight assumptions! There are no rocks old enough on Earth for isotopic dating to give you the age figure you crave and to back up the limited and postulative tectonic plate evidence. Were you actually there? Have you counted the days ever since? Also, what has the age of the Earth got to do with either my faith or this thread I can't tell but it seems very important to you for some reason. Could it be a desperate attempt to try and undermine both my science argument and try and neutralise my Christianity based arguments as not relevant to 21st century Britain. You are very naive on both strategies, as you arguments are increasingly aggressive, despondent, and wreak of New-Atheist mentality of a intellectual superiority which you simply don't have claim to!

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Try actually listening to people that correct you. You might begin to realise the scary science stuff isn't nearly as difficult to understand as you might think.

When you correct me I'll be listening but you just spout Liberal world view tripe as fact while not listening to a thing I say! How patronising can you get? Do you have any science credentials? As already stated I have a Geology Degree and hence don't find science scary at all! What on Earth are you talking about. You're the one that' got a closed mind on this issue.

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Either you are heterosexual and therefore have no understanding of what being gay means and therefore are in no fit place to make claims about gay choice, or you are homosexual and you are trying to hide this from yourself and your God by burying it so deep all you can do is lash out in anger at those that are brave enough to accept who and what they are.

Having grown up with a friend you came out while still at school I'm quite sure his family break up and an absentee father had a lot to do with his confused sexuality. His brother reacted in a different but just as abnormal manner by trying to be overly macho to compensate for his lack of a father figure. My wife was friends with a 'cured' homosexual in her previous job. He accepted that his homosexual feelings had been wrong, God had convicted him of this and although he had never developed heterosexual feelings of attraction, he felt his calling was to be celibate (an option not often spoken about in relationship studies these days ). What qualifies you to pose the counter point?

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@BigD

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How patronising can you get?

You, who routinely post lies, claiming them to be truth, assertions as proven facts, fairy stories as historical records, have the effrontery to ask how patronising can you get?
You are a hypocrite who spouts the teachings of tolerance to justify your own intolerance of others, You quote teachings of respect while spewing out contempt for others, and you attack the concept of equality because you see it as a threat to your own privilege.

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Having grown up with a friend you came out while still at school I'm quite sure his family break up and an absentee father had a lot to do with his confused sexuality

What e v i d e n c e do you have for this claim or are you just talking out of your asre again? I have known people who were raised under circumstances that would make you weep who turned out as model citizens, and others who were given all of the love and support imaginable, who turned into self centred hate filled sadists. I would also ask what part of the geology degree cours includes psycological profiling?
For your information, the sad individual who started all of this "straighten the gays" crap has retracted his original thesis because at the end, those who tried to go along with it ended up dysfunctional or suicidal, and those who reverted to their true nature prospered.

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What qualifies you to pose the counter point?

something called e v i d e n c e . If you truly did have a scientific education, and understood what was being said, you would already be aware of this. As it stands I see no difference between you and this canting hypocrite
clip 1
clip 2
clip 3

And by the way you still haven't said who it was that Cain married. Was it his sister, or some bimbo from a neighbouring creation?

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@BigD

Quote:

Quote: Your religious views are self contradictory, you claim the Earth is 6000 years old I never said that. Again you just make up the comments you'd like to argue against.

"Living by God's moral standard was all Adam & Eve knew before they ate the fruit from the tree of knowledge and learnt what bad morality and evil was."
"Creation is not a myth but a fairly obvious state of affairs considering the natural world we're surrounded by."

You clearly believe in the Creation Myth, Adam & Eve and the forbidden fruit. So why are you now trying to claim you disagree with a 6000 year old Earth?

"Bishop Ussher, in a remarkably scholarly attempt well before the advent of modern day geological thnking, estimated the age of the Earth by counting up all the generations in the Old testament, plus a few adjustments here and there. He came up with a date for Genesis at just over 6000 years BC"

So forgive me, 8000 years would be closer? It certainly can't in any way be regarded as being millions of years old, given man was standing in a garden in less than a week after it was created.

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I do however find it troubling that you know categorically the age of the Earth when the Mid-Atlantic Ridge (MAR) tectonic evidence assumes constant tectonic plate activity and spread rates of 2.5cm a year over 'millions of years' on the basis of a glorified jigsaw puzzle involving Africa's continental shelf outline matching the shape of the South American continental shelf outline! The magnetic banding that gives further age dating pointers assumes a regular switching of the poles. These are hardly water tight assumptions! There are no rocks old enough on Earth for isotopic dating to give you the age figure you crave and to back up the limited and postulative tectonic plate evidence.

You claim to have a geology degree and that's the best you can come up with?

Degree my ass. If you'd had a degree you would know about the Narryer Gneiss Terrane and Kaapvaal Craton or indeed anything else about the subject that sheds considerably more light about the age of the Earth than plate tectonics (Which produces the youngest parts of the crust, so why would you even suggest this as a reference point for the age of the Earth? Do you understand ANYTHING about geology?). Indeed, plate tectonics are only a relatively recent discovery, most of the undersea faults were only revealed when the US Navy published data from it's undersea mapping research. Hutton started the science with his paper "Theory of the Earth" way back in 1785

What the discovery of plate tectonics did was help explain the findings already known. Indeed when the sea floor was finally mapped out by satellite radar imaging, the faults were found to be exactly where the science said they were, both on land and under the oceans.

When you were getting busy with the cutting and pasting from your google search, did it not occur to you that you should delete the "(MAR)" abbreviation since you were only going to use the word once and you would only need to abbreviate it if you were referring to it a lot?

I even found the original source material where the quote on the wikipedia page you quoted came from, so unless your real name is Ken C Macdonald and you've quoted your own dissertation you wrote for your Masters degree in 1982, you have just had that dream where you are giving a speech and you realise you've got no clothes on, only it's not a dream, its a real post that you wrote.

About the only thing about geology you understand is the hole you've been steadily digging yourself into since you made this ridiculous claim in the first place.

Quote:

Also, what has the age of the Earth got to do with either my faith or this thread I can't tell but it seems very important to you for some reason.

I dunno, could it be because the very foundations of the religion you claim to believe in has God as the Earth's creator and God as Man's creator that if it could be shown to be a false claim then that would severely undermine both the religion itself and the divinity of the god you claim is the only valid one out of the many thousands that humans believe in?

At a guess, I'd choose that reply...

Quote:

Having grown up with a friend you came out while still at school I'm quite sure his family break up and an absentee father had a lot to do with his confused sexuality. His brother reacted in a different but just as abnormal manner by trying to be overly macho to compensate for his lack of a father figure.

And we've done this before as well. I showed you a link to hundreds of famous gay people, past and present that have perfectly "normal" families when they grew up and others have pointed out lots of people come from broken homes that don't turn out to be gay, or otherwise less than "normal"

See this is how I know you are not a scientist. Your brain doesn't work like one. For starters, you've made a judgement about a subject based on a sample so small as to be entirely meaningless. To put it another way, I saw a bird this morning when I went out to mow the lawn, then my lawnmower broke. Since that's the first time I've ever had my lawnmower break, it must be related to birds.

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My wife was friends with a 'cured' homosexual in her previous job. He accepted that his homosexual feelings had been wrong, God had convicted him of this and although he had never developed heterosexual feelings of attraction, he felt his calling was to be celibate (an option not often spoken about in relationship studies these days

So he's still gay then? So how is that a cure?

Again you seem to be stuck on the sex part of homosexuality. Plenty of heterosexual men haven't had sex since their children were born because this apparently causes women to have headaches all the time ( ), does that mean they aren't heterosexual anymore?

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 30-Sep-2012 at 08:21 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 30-Sep-2012 at 08:20 PM.

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Quote:

Having grown up with a friend you came out while still at school I'm quite sure his family break up and an absentee father had a lot to do with his confused sexuality. My wife was friends with a 'cured' homosexual in her previous job.

Wow. You knew two. Or knew of one, and your wife knew one.
And they both had 7 partners each year, I assume? Are they alive today? I ask since you claim gay people have a low life expetancy.

Can't you just be honest, and tell it like it is, that you hate fags?

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@jaokim

Quote:

Can't you just be honest, and tell it like it is, that you hate fags?

No, because I don't and I don't appreciate you attempting to put those words in my mouth. In my experience the homosexuals I've met have all been deeply traumatised by family breakdown and have 'chosen' to act on the homosexual feelings that resulted from the hurt/feelings of not fitting in etc. I don't see how you and SpaceDruid can simply discount that that primary evidence out of hand? It is evident that homosexuals have A LOT of partners and the statistics say on average seven a year! Sounds about right.

I don't hate people who are practising homosexuals but a lot of people of this forum certainly seem to hate marriage because they are all to keen to throw it in the meat shredder without a second thought!

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

So he's still gay then? So how is that a cure?

I think he can most accurately be described a celibate. Homosexuality can ONLY be defined in the context of a homosexual act. People who no longer practise homosexuality are no longer homosexuals. It's a shame that you've swallowed the misconception that there is something genetically different about a practising homosexual because it just isn't the case and there is no proof to the contrary.

_________________
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Quote:

In my experience the homosexuals I've met have all been deeply traumatised by family breakdown and have 'chosen' to act on the homosexual feelings that resulted from the hurt/feelings of not fitting in etc. I don't see how you and SpaceDruid can simply discount that that primary evidence out of hand?

The evidence based on the two homosexuals you've met!?

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@jaokim

Quote:

The evidence based on the two homosexuals you've met!?

To continue then...

A family friend tried out the 'lesbian lifestyle' due to her dad leaving and a boyfriend treating her badly. She is now with a man again having grown tired of her 'experiment'.

The cycle of broken relationships is mirrored all over the UK and you simply dismiss it? Whose the one acting on blind belief in a world view me or you?

Another lady at our swimming pool left her bad marriage and shacked up with a women taking her two daughters with her. Are you telling me she'd have done that if she had a happy marriage?

People have a choice as to whether they leave their families and the men that give up on their families or abuse them should also be held responsible when their kids go off the rails and the wives become lesbians. These things are happening every day and you can't blame genetics? What we should not do is ever accept these lifestyle as normal or comparable to marriage because they are a product of family breakdowns and to normalise them will perpetuate the broken families!

Last edited by BigD on 30-Sep-2012 at 11:16 PM.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@BigD

Quote:

I think he can most accurately be described a celibate. Homosexuality can ONLY be defined in the context of a homosexual act.

What utter tripe!

People who get married have an emotional bond. If the only reason for marriage that you can think of is for sex then I pity your poor wife...

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People who no longer practise homosexuality are no longer homosexuals.

And so I'm no longer a heterosexual then? Fuck me! I didn't know there was a sex quota I had to adhere to!


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It's a shame that you've swallowed the misconception that there is something genetically different about a practising homosexual because it just isn't the case and there is no proof to the contrary.

And it's a bloody shame you are so thick in the head to not even understand basic human emotion.

So not only do you not know about the Earth, you don't know anything about humans? You have failed the Turing test.

Sorry BigD's programmers, your AI has utterly failed to convince me of it's human nature. I've been struggling for some time, but that post has utterly convinced me it's not a human writing these posts. Come clean guys. Your experiment has failed and your continued attempts to prove otherwise are just annoying us.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

And it's a bloody shame you are so thick in the head to not even understand basic human emotion.

I understand that damaged individuals from broken homes sometimes need human comfort and wrongly assume someone of the same sex will do when their is no one else around or everyone else seems to have let them down. Yes, everyone needs human love, all I am pointing out is that homosexual desires and feelings occur out of bad life experience and damaged family situations. They are not natural products of growing up or exploring relationships but rather a wrong response to being emotionally hurt.

Encouraging more children to experiment with homosexual activity is not progressive but regressive. No society that turns its back on marriage has lasted very long in human history. The same goes for societies that actively promote homosexual activity the way our politicians are attempting to.

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@BigD

I keep telling you guys. I'm not buying it that it's a human making these posts. Give it up already!

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@BigD

Quote:

I think he can most accurately be described a celibate. Homosexuality can ONLY be defined in the context of a homosexual act. People who no longer practise homosexuality are no longer homosexuals.

Celibate means not having sex. It appears he may still have male lust which he chooses to not act upon. This would be a type of coverting, against one of the 10 commandments. Even Job confirms lust is a sin. "For lust is a shameful sin, a crime that should be punished." as well does Matthew "But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust in his eye has already committed adultery with her in his heart" True this isnt a 'woman' but the idea of wanton desire is still there, even in one's heart, is a sin. Even if not acted upon. The Bible does say thoughts are sinful as well as actions. I think you have some reading and a question for your next Bible Study lesson.

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something genetically different about a practising homosexual because it just isn't the case

Again I've provided you the evidence that the construct of gay brains are more similar to straights of the opposite sex than with straight brains of the same sex. Genetic, or chemical, or whatever it is rather interesting that we can and do note phyical constructs that are different.

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Another lady at our swimming pool left her bad marriage and shacked up with a women taking her two daughters with her. Are you telling me she'd have done that if she had a happy marriage?

The thought that the marriage didn't work because she was gay didn't occur to you?

And by the way, "by your swimming pool"? Who are you? Hugh Hefner?

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@jaokim

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And by the way, "by your swimming pool"? Who are you? Hugh Hefner?

Our local community swimming pool. i.e. My local shops, my local cinema etc.

I doubt she considered herself lesbian until she experimented with same-sex relationships following a painful relationship breakdown. If trust is damaged women can sometimes blame men in general rather than just their husband. I fail to see why you assume these responses are hard wired into individuals, it's obviously a response to a painful family breakdown.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios