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BrianK 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 13:44:36
#1261 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@fishy_fis

Quote:
Despite some, err,.. "wacky" notions by BigD, this thread is a decent example of how far humanity has come (in some ways at least).

To highlight your point I can speak to my little corner of the world - Minnesota. Here in Minnesota within the USA we have a law on the books denying gays the right to marry. It's not under challenge here. However, the right-wingers decided it in someone's best interest to try to ammend the State Constitution to include marriage is only between a man and a woman. We get to vote on it in Nov.

Now Nov isn't far away and is the final count. What can be said is that in current Polling the majority of citizens are going to vote down the right-wing change. Additionally, it appears because of this issue more liberals who will support the current President are coming out to vote. Essentially what this hate filled question ensured is that our State will vote to reelect the current administration.

Now I know BigD mentioned this was to get the 'Pink vote'. But, it does run the other way. When pushing hate filled agendas those against hate can be driven to come out in higher numbers to help push those small minded people back into their caves.



@Franko
Why the Muppet hate? Muppets rule!

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CritAnime 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 14:00:31
#1262 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 735
From: UK

@fishy_fis

I agree with Franko too. Working as a nurse I see people like BigD on an almost daily basis. People that hold prejudices towards various sections of society. It's saddening really. However I do, only sometimes though, see people have their prejudices smashed in the face of adversity and realize that it was all a load of unfounded rubbish.

As you quite rightly said, society as a whole, goes through many problems much like this but always comes out better at the end. Equality, a woman's right to vote, abolishment of slavery, mixed ethnicity relationships, acceptance of the gay community were all met with people much like BigD. But there were also people like ourselves that don't view the world in such a way.

This is yet another little hurdle in a long stretch of them yet to come.

The thing with people like BigD, and this is a simplified view, is that they have lots of safety nets in their life. Whether they are aware of it or not. It's when the safty nets get tugged by these debates that they spring into these highly defensive states. And most usually throw some arbitrary bit of research in to their arguments to make them sound like they have some basis. While others take to the streets or even commit acts of violence.

@Franko

I understand the starting pistol has been fired on the Scottish Independence debate. I hope that Scottish people will finally get some closure on this. Though I am pretty sure you will probably say your not bothered lol. Although you may just prove me wrong on that one ;)

I am sure this debate will bring out a band of people similar to BigD.

@BrianK

Quote:
Why the Muppet hate? Muppets rule!


Dunno if you knew but Muppet is slang for moron round these parts. Though my cold fueled head might not have picked up on some subtle hint of sarcasm lol.

Last edited by CritAnime on 15-Oct-2012 at 02:03 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 14:20:36
#1263 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2156
From: Australia

@CritAnime

re: Muppets.

I assume BrianK is reffering to Jim Henderson's Muppets.

I can only agree with him there. They do rule :)

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CritAnime 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 14:23:36
#1264 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 735
From: UK

@fishy_fis

Muppets are cools...... Think the codine is talking lol.

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Franko 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 14:54:04
#1265 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Franko
Why the Muppet hate? Muppets rule!


Erm... not sure why you think I hate the Muppets !!! as I don't...

SInce the muppet show was first shown here way back in the late 70's (I think it was), the term "Muppet" has been used in the country to describe someone who says or does daft things...

Doesn't mean we hate the Muppets it's just a word that's worked itself into our vocabulary to describe something, bit like American use "Kleenex" to describe paper handkerchiefs... (so why do you guys hate other brands of disposable snot rags)...

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Franko 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 14:59:24
#1266 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@CritAnime

Quote:

CritAnime wrote:
@Franko

I understand the starting pistol has been fired on the Scottish Independence debate. I hope that Scottish people will finally get some closure on this. Though I am pretty sure you will probably say your not bothered lol. Although you may just prove me wrong on that one ;)

I am sure this debate will bring out a band of people similar to BigD.


While I may not like politicians, governments and what not, when it comes to Scottish independence I always have been in favour of that even long before I knew anything about politics...

When it happens very soon I will finally be able to get myself a passport and be able to travel and see the rest of the world before I finally snuff it, can't do that at the moment as I refuse to use something that declares me as being British so I'm kinda stuck here for the time being...

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Rob 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 15:13:38
#1267 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6344
From: S.Wales

@BrianK

I remember that I was visiting my mother when I first saw something in the paper about gay marriage, I turned to her and said "why would gay people want to get married". Having followed this thread and seen the hate being spat out by BigD I now support an issue that I previously couldn't have cared less about.

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BrianK 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 16:04:45
#1268 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Rob

Me too! I was neutral and didn't really care either way. BigD drove me into thinking about my values deeper and what freedom means. I thank him for pushing me into thinking deeper and making a decision. Though he's probably not happy he pushed people to be against it. Gay marriage increases freedoms and will help to reduce another area of discrimination - these are good things for society.




@Franko
Thanks for the Muppet explaination. I expected that's what you meant. It just wasn't a term I'd heard used in that manner in my part of the world.

Last edited by BrianK on 15-Oct-2012 at 04:06 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 17:22:42
#1269 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

Christian Groups protest againt anti-bullying policies. They figured out this means they wouldn't be able to insult, threaten, or bully gay people.



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BigD 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 17:46:02
#1270 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
As I mentioned earlier, you can't keep making this claim. It has been debunked. Each time you say it, you sound like an idiot. Just because you failed to respond the previous dozens of times to the debunking, doesn't make you right.


It hasn't been debunked just because you disagree with the statement You are not the authority on this matter and hence don't get the final say on what stands and what doesn't. You seem to think you are a judge presiding over the debate when you're just another individual with some decidedly liberal views disagreeing with my views. Talk about a god complex .

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BigD 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 17:51:53
#1271 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
You can't have it both ways. Either there are significant numbers of homosexuals which destroys one part of your argument (There isn't a demand for gay marriage) and are worthy of political attention (and subsequently the right to equality), or their are not. So which one is it?


The point is that David Cameron thinks that the pink vote is worth staking his political career on. In practise it probably isn't worth considering politically speaking. Just because the Prime Minister is deluded in the belief that the 'pink vote' will help him get a majority at the next election doesn't mean he doesn't still think it.

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BigD 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 17:56:17
#1272 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@SpaceDruid

Quote:
Yes it is. That's exactly what it's about. That's ONLY what it is about. Everything else you've claimed these last thousands posts has been debunked. EVERYTHING.


No. You disagree with me. You haven't proved me wrong and you are not an authority on whether this is about 'equality' or not.

You don't understand that the Peter & Hazel Mary Bull B&B case tested whether marriage and civil partnerships were legally equivalent and it found that they were! You can't have it both ways. Equality already exists.

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SpaceDruid 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 19:03:56
#1273 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2007
Posts: 1748
From: Inside the mind of a cow on a planet that's flying through space at 242.334765 miles per second.

@BigD

Quote:

It hasn't been debunked just because you disagree with the statement


debunked
Verb: Expose the falseness or hollowness of (a myth, idea, or belief).

Roll your eyes as many times as you like, your claims have been debunked. Try reading the replies you haven't responded to, or the parts of my or anyone else's posts you continuously fail to acknowledge. Perhaps the reason (if I can use such a word with you in mind) you continue to rehash the same mumbo jumbo all the time is because you fail to read them?

You certainly have a reputation of not reading all of the text on the links you provide as I happily point out each time you provide them.

Quote:

You are not the authority on this matter and hence don't get the final say on what stands and what doesn't. You seem to think you are a judge presiding over the debate when you're just another individual with some decidedly liberal views disagreeing with my views. Talk about a god complex


No I'm not the authority. Facts are. Everything you post that is debunked is debunked by the facts, not the opinion of the reader. Don't you even have any hint that you are wrong on this? Various new faces show up in this thread from time to time. Every one of them says you are wrong. Nobody has disagreed with me or anyone else that replies to you. Doesn't this ring any bells in your head? Just how many people are in on this liberal agenda you keep banging on about? Are we all part of it?

Just to remind you what others have said. This website is about a vintage computer that is kept alive by fans. This is not a politically motivated forum or a forum with a liberal bias. There are many people here that have right wing views and many with left, the bulk of the people here are somewhere in the middle.

Nobody has chipped in to support you. No one.

The only other time I've been in a situation like this was on another forum where a paranoid schizophrenic wrote a thread to say gangs of people were following him. When it was pointed out to him that he was a medically diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic and that seeing people following him was part of the condition he accepted he had, he still didn't get it and continued to provide "proof" of the people following him.

The worst thing was, he was part of a group of other paranoid schizophrenics who had joined forces to "prove" their paranoia was real, which of course just helps fuel their paranoia further. It is a never ending cycle and very sad.

It's called "Gang Stalking" if anyone is interested, Here's a link to one of the videos showing "proof". Don't worry if you missed something, you didn't. It's just footage of a drive along a road. In the mind of a paranoid person, they have formed a link to cars of the same colour, or them being parked at specific places, or in this particular case because the pick-up is driving along the same road at the same speed. It doesn't matter what you say to them, you can't convince them these are just normal people going about their business.

That's what this thread is like. No matter how many people tell you, you are wrong, you don't believe us. You invent reasons for why so many people disagree with you (Your liberal elite agenda), you jump upon parts of a post where you perceive weakness (Big Bang "theory") as if it will provide some form of support for your opinions. You'll no doubt do the same to some part of this post.

I am firmly of the mind that you have had some mental breakdown and are still suffering from it. Your unwillingness to modify your own views despite evidence you can see with your own eyes hints at this. You've (unintentionally) conceded one thing in a thousand posts, that was that gay people can't be "cured". When this was pointed out to you, you then came up with one of the most contrived things I've heard in my entire life (That you weren't gay if you were celibate).

You've latched onto a group that you think shares your distorted views (Christians) and any that disagree with you, you decide they are not "true Christians" or make some other excuse.

I hate to be the one to tell you, but few of the people you share a church with think like you do (Perhaps individuals with the same illness do?). The majority of people who are opposed to gay marriage don't think like you. You've latched onto them in the same way a paranoid schizophrenic latches on to a conspiracy theorists group. You don't realise that they have their own reasons for being there, none of which are the same reasons you think.

Just like the paranoid schizophrenic finding fellow paranoid schizophrenics that reinforce their delusion, when you find other "born agains" you collectively reinforce your own.

And just as sad as the paranoid schizophrenic I mentioned, you will never realise that you are ill. You'll dismiss this post out of hand, deny their is anything wrong with you and go back to your delusion where you feel safe.

You are not a bad person D. You just need help. I hope some day you will get it, but to be honest, the options don't look good. The only people capable of helping you are the ones that want to keep you as a member. For you to trust them, they'd have to share at least some of your views and people like that are not in the business of getting rid of members, so I don't expect them to do that.

My friend who is a minister (Church of Scotland) would help you. In fact it was a discussion with him about you that prompted this post. But you'd never trust him. He's one of them "liberal agenda people" because he cares about people that are suffering regardless of their lifestyle "choices". The offer still stands though. If one day you face up to your problem, there is help available. Just PM me.

In light of these comments, I am no longer going to take part in this thread. I don't want to be part of your delusions any more. I don't wish to debate with you as you are incapable of doing that as the thousand posts have shown. You are not saying anything new today that you weren't saying at the start. And neither are any of us. Yet you keep posting.

Talking to you any more just feels like I'm in a Victorian freak showing at Bedlam home for the insane. It's leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Goodbye D. I (truly) wish you well...

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 15-Oct-2012 at 07:26 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 21:26:50
#1274 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@BigD

Again the states with the Lowest Rates of Divorce are New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Delaware and Massachusetts. Overlay the States with same-sex marriage, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, and New Hampshire and you aren't finding marriage failing or society crumbling here. And BTW - Iowa is in the second set of 5 out of the top 10 least divorced states

Interesting enough researchers are finding the 25 States that have passed anti-gay marriage laws are the same states that minorites are reporting the highest rates of stress. LINK It's been found "through several empirical studies that gays and lesbians encounter a disproportionate level of stress and mental health difficulties because of discrimination and oppressive laws, and that these stresses amplify the social stigma that makes them more susceptible to depression, suicide and substance abuse"

Again Christ asks us to take care of the lessors in our society. People with depression, suicide, abusers, etc. are going to get in heaven first than the rich man that ignores them. And, of course, this impacts children. Do you want 2 Dads that are happy or 2 Dads that are depressed? I'd think the 2 Dads that are happy do a much better job raising kids. And guess what gay-marriage or no gay-marriage society does and will have that situation.

Worried about those kids? You wanted more research right? Well the most comprehensive study of childeren of gay to straight parents to date was done by the American Academy of Pediatrics' Committee on Psychosocial Aspects of Child and Family Health in 2002. Quick Summary Link and the article itself (go to your local library to get a copy) finds that Children who have gay or lesbian parents do not differ from children who have heterosexual parents in terms of psychological health, social relationships, or cognitive or emotional functioning . The one thing kids of gay parents do deal with more is Bullying (like from thick headed inflexible bigots). And it turns out the best predictor of the childs outcome for both gays and straights is interparent conflicts and the stress levels of the parents.

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BigD 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 21:27:41
#1275 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@BrianK

Quote:
This Christian organization welcomes all money. I'm sure there's many Shia that agree and contribute to your cause. I don't know all the rules in England but as far as I've seen there's little in the way of mandated Biblical Law.


You can't trust Wikipedia as the 'be all and end all' source of what's what in the world; it can be moderated and amended by ANYONE!

The Coalition For Marriage is a non-religious organisation with supporters from many different 'faith' positions, political persuasions and backgrounds. Marriage is valued by all different types of people and it should not be allowed for a small vocal group of only 39% of the 1.5% of the population who are practising homosexuals in the UK to destroy it for the rest of us! The vociferous liberal media and liberal activists should back down as there is no appetite for this among most of the practising homosexuals in the UK and they're are the ones that are supposedly asking for the change

Last edited by BigD on 15-Oct-2012 at 10:10 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 15-Oct-2012 at 10:07 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 22:22:25
#1276 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@BrianK

Quote:
Again Christ asks us to take care of the lessors in our society. People with depression, suicide, abusers, etc. are going to get in heaven first than the rich man that ignores them. And, of course, this impacts children. Do you want 2 Dads that are happy or 2 Dads that are depressed? I'd think the 2 Dads that are happy do a much better job raising kids.


Two grown men being 'happy' does not justify depriving a child of mother. Even Elton John can see it will break his little boy's heart to find out he hasn't got a mother. If the two men in question had depression they could visit a GP like the rest of us. I would argue that if the men had depression then social services shouldn't be placing children in their care for risk of further burdening them and worsening their depression. Common sense really. There are more than enough married couples who can't conceive that could adopt instead. That way the child wouldn't have to be selfishly deprived of a mother in the first place.

Last edited by BigD on 15-Oct-2012 at 10:23 PM.

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BigD 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 15-Oct-2012 23:30:32
#1277 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@Thread

Iain Duncan Smith has the right idea; the re-implementation of Marriage Tax Breaks to encourage people to make a commitment to each other. Makes a change from David Cameron foolish redefinition plans. Let's hope Dave does the right thing for a change. This could encourage marriage culture and help our nations kids to grow up with their parents committed to making their relationships last.

Daily Mail: IDS urges married tax breaks

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BrianK 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 16-Oct-2012 1:07:31
#1278 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@BigD

Quote:
You can't trust Wikipedia as the 'be all and end all' source of what's what in the world; it can be moderated and amended by ANYONE!
The Wikipedia has the list of leaders within the organization. The founders and current leaders gained their political and monetary influence used to build this organization from Christianity. Wiki isn't wrong on the list of leaders. Again as I said they'd take money from anyone though their founding foundation for their thought is their Christian beliefs.

Quote:
Two grown men being 'happy' does not justify depriving a child of mother
No life's uncertain situation is what deprives a child of a mother. Including God taking the mother from the earth before the child is grown.

Quote:
There are more than enough married couples who can't conceive that could adopt instead
Couples aren't forced to have kids. Some couples that can conceive don't have kids. Some couples do want to adopt. However, in the USA we clearly are not at a shortage of kids up for adoption. There's an estimated 100K families wanting to adopt and an estimated 140K kids up for adoption. Many parents don't want that pre-teen adoption and want a fresh baby. Unfortunately babies are harder to come by and many married parents decide to wait rather than settle for that 10 year old. I'd argue that letting the 10 year old go through life bumped from Foster Family is much more damaging than being raised by 2 gay parents. Especially when the research shows "... the overwhelming numbers of studies (despite their limitations) demonstrate no differences in children's development based on the sexual orientation of their parent or parents"



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BigD 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 16-Oct-2012 6:50:41
#1279 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 7307
From: UK

@BrianK

While it is a shame that there are not enough married couples to adopt older children it doesn't seem to be the solution to place them in situations that deprive them of a male AND female role model. There are distinct things we pick up and learn from both our mother AND father and yet people continue a social experiment to try and unpick the fabric of society as set out in the Gay Liberation Front's 1971 Manifesto! Is doesn't surprise me that some of your national institutions such as the Psychoanalytic Association and the American Psychological Association are picking up the baton and trying to forward the agenda.

Here is a link to show the importance of mothers to sons;

What sons learn from their mothers


Here is a link to show the importance of fathers backed up with a recent study;

Telegraph A loving father is 'more important to children'

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Franko 
Re: Gay Civil Marriage In UK at a cost of 3.7 million Updated - you can sign petition after reading, if you want!
Posted on 16-Oct-2012 7:01:23
#1280 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@BigD

This is an honest and serious question to you personally and I really hope you will give an honest answer to it.

Do you really base all or most of what shapes your thoughts, beliefs and views of life and society based on things you've read online or in the media ???

It comes across as that way here as almost everything you claim or say here seems to be based on links to internet or media articles you include in your posts...

Maybe it's just me but I find that very odd & strange that someone feels the need for almost everything they say to be based upon something they have read and very rarely ever says anything that is based on his own real life experience or his own thoughts/ beliefs...

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