@Nimrod

Quote:

Hitler was born a catholic, raised as a catholic, attended classes and was confirmed as a catholic. His marriage in the final days of the war was solemnised by a catholic priest who later administered the last rites, to a catholic. At no point in his "career" did the pope see fit to excommunicate Hitler, and his activities mirror the activities of the collective christian groups over the centuries, so by any definition he was a christian and a catholic.

He was no Christian just as Tony Blair (a professing Catholic) is no Christian after his attempt to outlaw street preaching by refusing a free speech amendment during the passage of the Religious Hatred Bill and his unwillingness to loosen controls on national Christian Radio broadcasting on FM. You think Christenings, reading of rites and meaningless rituals turn people into Christians when it is actually a miraculous change of heart, and a conviction to live for Christ wholeheartedly that defines a Christian. You can't say that about Hitler (murdered 6 million of God's chosen people; the Jews) and you can't say that about Tony Blair (kept his faith private and never practised what he claimed to believe ever).

Last edited by BigD on 25-Oct-2012 at 01:20 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@Nimrod

Next you'll be trying to claim that these leaders in the Kirk of the Church of Scotland are Christians despite trying to oust and bankrupt Christians at St George's Tron in Glasgow for holding onto sound Bible teachings and leaving this backslidden denomination!

Kirk to seize back St George's Tron in gay clergy row

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The Kirk's General Assembly voted to accept gay clergy provided they had declared their sexuality and were ordained before 2009. The Rev William Philip, the minister at the church, which is off Buchanan Street, said when he and his flock quit in June it was because the Kirk is on a "trajectory towards normalising such relationships".

And this is with marriage defined as the voluntary union for life of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others. Think how much more persecution the church will face if these backslidden 'career pharisees' get legal powers to carry out same-sex marriages while the Bible believing 'true' church is thrown out on the streets! Is this the 'brave new' tolerant Britain you were hoping for

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@BigD

You have a bad case of 'no true scotsman'. You declare people to not be Christians based upon how you judge Christianity. I'd recommend you read the Bible and learn that the right to Judge is not yours. It's Gods.

Let's bring this back to marriage. Afterall marriage predates Christianity. Your own Bible can tell you that. Historically marriage has changed. A mere 50 years ago interracial marriages weren't allowed. Prior to that minorities weren't allowed to marry. Prior to that multipeople marriages were outlawed. And certainly many items in Christianity and history have to do with rights of the first born and dowery of the daughters. All values we've outgrown.

If you're really worried about marriages you need to take on divorce. You said you love kids. Divorce creates more single parent families than any other factor. It does so directly by having parents who divorce. It does so indirectly by allowing a 'disposible' relationship that makes people easy to argue it's no better than just shacking up. You appear to be unworried about this~50%+ of the population and and are worried about a 1-3%. Do you always save your pennies and throw out your large denomination dollar bills.

There's also another prevalent force in increasing the single parent family. That is giving women education, women rights, women jobs, and allowing women to be something more than breeding stock. Now I'm all for these things. But, it does have the side effect that self sufficent people commit to self sufficent lifestyles. They see marriage as dependent and not a primary goal. This is why we see higher rates of marriage in cloistered Shria type of societies instead of the modern world.

Getting back to gays right to marriage it's simply time to stop the discrimination. If we're going to stop basing things on dougherys and switch it out for love. Then society should be consistent. Now if you and your God don't want gay marriage that's fine. Simply don't have one. You do not have a right to make demands that society must discriminate because the Bible tells you so. Society is based on the best for all of us and not based upon your God. All civil rights must be translated into values that all can partake in.

In short society has continually improved when we promoted and provided for the least among us. Discrimination of ALL minorities must end. The rights of gays need to be on the same level with the rest of society. Just as we have done for women, minorities, gays, and religious outcasts. Welcome to the 21st Century. Sorry to drag you screaming out of the 13th Century.

@BrianK

Quote:

Afterall marriage predates Christianity.

I'm glad you agree that it predates Christianity Marriage between a man and a woman is not a recent social creation. Marriage is widely held to predates law, nation and church. It premise goes back to the dawn of time. Matrimonial law may have been tweaked over the years, but the law has never fundamentally altered the essential nature of marriage: a lifelong commitment between one man and one woman. Same-sex marriage would rewrite hundreds of years of British legal tradition and thousands of years of cultural heritage.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@BrianK

Quote:

Getting back to gays right to marriage it's simply time to stop the discrimination.

Same-sex couples already have equality. Civil partnerships provide all the legal rights of marriage. Equality doesn’t mean bland uniformity or state-imposed sameness. If the Government genuinely wants to pursue equality, why is it banning heterosexual couples from entering a civil partnership? Same-sex couples have equal rights through civil partnerships, but they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for everyone else.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BrianK

Quote:

In short society has continually improved when we promoted and provided for the least among us.

It is hypocritical not to suggest that this should include unborn children and we're not doing a very job at providing for them;

Total number of abortions in the U.S. 1973-2011: 54.5 million+
Total number of abortions in the U.H. 1967-2012: 6.3 million

Epic fail from the liberals there. Practising homosexuals are on the same level as the rest of society and they have all the rights open to heterosexuals in the form of civil partnerships or if they choose to find a partner of the opposite sex and 'deal' with the unwanted homosexual feelings 'marriage.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Marriage between a man and a woman is not a recent social creation

To fix you sentence - marriages between men and women are not a recent social creation.

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law has never fundamentally altered the essential nature of marriage: a lifelong commitment between one man and one woman.

Sure it has. Read your Bible and you'll find many commitments between man and women. Read the histories of non-European nations and you'll find that 'between one man and one woman' is a relatively new creation. Probably 3Kish out of the last 2M years.

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It is hypocritical not to suggest that this should include unborn children

Again go back in time and you'll find abortion practiced by many cultures. Not only that you'll find many cultures allow babies to be killed or left out exposed to nature and die. So if you want to claim history as your backing you're applying it inconsistently here.

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Same-sex marriage would rewrite hundreds of years of British legal tradition and thousands of years of cultural heritage

And that's a good thing. Tradition is fairly worthless. Slavery has a long and full history as marriage does, in the annuals of humanity. Do you think tradition validates slavery and we should reintroduce it?

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. If the Government genuinely wants to pursue equality, why is it banning heterosexual couples from entering a civil partnership?

Great question. My answer is that it shouldn't and therefore marriage should be open to gays. Civil partnership should be open to straights. Having 2 seperate agreements which are 'equal' makes no sense. For every law you now have to include 'marriage & civil partnerships'. Instead make it easier and allow marriage for all.

Quote:

we're not doing a very job at providing for them

God's an utter failure there. He aborts a bit more than 50%. Humans can't compete.
Quote:

Total number of abortions in the U.S. 1973-2011: 54.5 million+

Estimated God abortioned in the US 1973-2011: 200Million+

Legal or not abortions happen everywhere. Countries with non-legal abortions are difficult to determine the actual rate. What is easy to determine is the amount of mothers that are impacted by poor quality of medical care to get their black market abortions. Personally I want to see abortions that are rare but safe. I don't want to see people dying for a preventable reason. And again if your God is against it then don't have one yourself.

But your side-step here gets us off the topic of gay marriage. Being married and gay doesn't say anything whatsoever about abortions. There's simply no impact to the abortion rate by letting gays marry.

Last edited by BrianK on 25-Oct-2012 at 02:55 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 25-Oct-2012 at 02:40 PM.

@Lou

3 parent kid This infant was conceived with 2 mothers and 1 father. Sure less than 1% of the DNA may be from Mom #2 but needless to say we should now have Mom #1, Mom #2 and Dad on the Birth certificate. The good is that this paves the way to splicing out inherited diseases and splicing in better genes.

Which brings up a question to you about abortions. That is the use of fertility clinics. These clinics help people that can't conceive do so. In order to do this they make in excess of a dozen fertilized eggs to implant. If all are people isn't it wrong to dispose of them? Isn't it just as wrong to just freeze them, well forever? And if so shouldn't we just shutdown this science? I think your view would say yes to all those.

Sorry,

No, sorry for posting but..



I had..



had to



It's



It's a..



It



Oh read the description yourselves

"Man Possessed by Gay Demon"




And you



And you wonder why



wonder why we don't take you seriously BigD

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@BigD

Quote:

So just 143 abortions took place where a woman’s life was in danger out of 6.3 million!!! That is sick and twisted!

You seem to have some grievance with the concept of abortion. Newsflash for you. Homosexuals do not reproduce and therefore do not need abortions. All your current rant proves is that once you have herded the homosexuals into the "showes=rs" in their special camps, you will turn your hate campaign on to other victims.

Quote:

and a conviction to live for Christ wholeheartedly that defines a Christian.

Wrong. What defines a christian is their following a sequence of actions that has been practiced by christians for the last seventeen hundred years. Murder, torture, hypocrisy, genocide, and all of the other "christian virtues" are what define Hitler as a model christian. And there is nothing unchristian in Tony B. Liar sexing up dodgy dossiers in order to justify yet another crusade. So yes, Adolf and Tony are indeed typical christian leaders.

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I'm glad you agree that it predates Christianity

Indeed it does, and before the Judaeo-christian hate brigade spread their intolerance around the world, marriage was not the exclusive "one man and one woman, for life" deal that you keep trying to pretend that it was. Homosexuality is not some recent invention of a so called liberal elite, but has been practiced throughout history.

Quote:

Same-sex couples already have equality

This
Is
A
Lie
Quote:

Same-sex couples have equal rights through civil partnerships

This
Is
Still
A
Lie
Quote:

but they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for everyone else.

Why not? christian did when they outlawed mixed race marriage, and when they outlawed homosexual relationships, and when they refused to recognise marriages among non christians, and all of the other little redefinitions that they have forced onto others with no justification better than voices in their imagination. Add to that the fact that your odious little campaign group would seek to annul my own marriage as it does not meet with your approval.

Quote:

If the Government genuinely wants to pursue equality, why is it banning heterosexual couples from entering a civil partnership?

The fact that there is a ban on heterosexuals entering into civil partnerships proves that there is sexual preference apartheid in place, and institutionalised discrimination occuring. In the segregated US states it was as illegal for a white man to sit at the back of the bus as it was for a black woman to sit in the comfortable seats.

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@Nimrod

Quote:

Add to that the fact that your odious little campaign group would seek to annul my own marriage as it does not meet with your approval.

I haven't the foggiest what you keep going on about regarding your own marriage?! I don't even know you or your wife!

Is she your sister or something?

Mind you that would probably be tolerated in your 'Brave New World' meets '1984' version of the future wouldn't it!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

I haven't the foggiest what you keep going on about regarding your own marriage?! I don't even know you or your wife

You are so arrogantly certain of your own personal moral superiority over the rest of the world that you do not even realise when you threaten somebodys well being, and consider it to be your right to make offensive and insulting comments to anybody who fails to worship you personally as the sole arbiter of what is to be allowed pr tolerated.

Quote:

Is she your sister or something?

There is nothing clever about this particularly offensive question, and by asking it you prove yourself to be as obnoxious and self-righteous as any of your kind, and you taint the name of your deity every time you utter it. The great sin that I and my wife commit that earns your vitriol and disgust, and warrants your assault on the sanctity of our marriage is that we have differing religious beliefs, and that would not in any circumstances be tolerated in your preferred theocratic dictatorship.

I do not require my wife to give up her faith and convert to my own under the pretence that as a woman she is not permitted to have a life outside of catering to my every whim. Unlike you and your mate Fred Phelps I am tolerant of differing religious beliefs, but I remain intolerant of intolerance, hypocrisy, bigotry, and oppression. Especially when it is disguised as "Gods will". In a previous post you went on about the Jews as "Gods chosen people" as though christians have always held this view, and yet the history of the last two thousand years is a direct contradiction of this lying claim.

You also threaten my marriage when you claim that it is only about procreation. It is over twenty years since our last child was born, but our marriage remains valid, despite your assertions to the contrary.

Quote:

Mind you that would probably be tolerated in your 'Brave New World' meets '1984' version of the future wouldn't it!

My version of the future is one in which oppression and bullying are no longer tolerated as being "religious freedom", and hateful, small minded individuals such as yourself can no longer excuse their crimes as "Gods will"

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

Quote:

The great sin that I and my wife commit that earns your vitriol and disgust, and warrants your assault on the sanctity of our marriage is that we have differing religious beliefs, and that would not in any circumstances be tolerated in your preferred theocratic dictatorship.

Do what you think is right. What I was pointed out is that the Bible's guidance for true Christians is that they marry other Christians. Once they are married however they no longer have a choice (despite the guidance as to what is the ideal), they are to remain in the union and honour God by honouring their spouse. What that means for your particular relationship is up to you to figure out, if indeed you care what the Bible says. You seem keen to dismiss the Bible's teaching on the definition of marriage and the teachings on homosexuality so why pay attention when I mention the teachings on how Chistians are to choose a spouse?

If you want to know whether the Bible teachings apply to your relationship then ask yourself one question, who do you put first God or your spouse? A Christian considering marrying a non-Christian should ask themselves that question. A Christian would say "God". Someone who simply attends church and lives their own life the rest of the week or has just been 'Christened' as a baby and never given the Bible a moments glance should have no such qualms however because they are not in a personal relationship with Christ, are not born again and are not technically Christians; they are simply church goers.

You think that homosexuals are oppressed and yet you don't see the oppression the destruction of marriage would bring to school children, school teachers, registrars, public service workers, hospital chaplains, indeed anyone in the public sector who doesn't agree in this mutilated version of marriage you are trying to create. This isn't a "love thy neighbour" ideal, it's "think like the liberals do or lose your job!" We saw what happened to Lillian Ladele and we see what the liberals are doing to Christian B&B owners. Your agenda is callous, aggressive and deeply intolerant and yet you preach tolerance.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

You think that homosexuals are oppressed and yet you don't see the oppression the destruction of marriage would bring to school children, school teachers, registrars, public service workers, hospital chaplains, indeed anyone in the public sector who doesn't agree in this mutilated version of marriage you are trying to create. This isn't a "love thy neighbour" ideal, it's "think like the liberals do or lose your job!"

You, a white middle aged christian man talk about oppresion like you know what it means? Moron.

The only oppresion school childrens will be met with is the oppresion manifested by you. You are the reason kids with different family structures are bullied and beaten to death.

I really dont see the point in living your life, 70-90 years, if youre lucky, in fear of what might come next. What you have is a belief. its not the truth. The truth we know of is that we live on this earth a limited time. Why you want to spend that time hating and killing people because they dont agree with your belief, not truth, is beyond me.

The only reason kids get bullied over their family situation is you.

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@jaokim

I've been oppressed many times in my life (least so I've been told by others) can't say I actually noticed though...

Guess it must be what others thought was oppression and for me it was simply a case of someone saying I couldn't say or do something to which I just usually reply "bollocks" and say or do what they said I'm not supposed to do...

_________________

@BigD

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What that means for your particular relationship is up to you to figure out, if indeed you care what the Bible says.

I care as much for what the bible says as you care what the Torah says, or the Koran, or the Visnu, or any of the myriad other sacred texts that have every bit as much validity as your own personal interpretation of the bible that allows you to be as offensive as you like, because your personal deity will always grant you forgiveness.
Quote:

If you want to know whether the Bible teachings apply to your relationship then ask yourself one question, who do you put first God or your spouse?

And what is your religions view on converting somebody from one religion to another. Should the christian churches refuse admission to married people whose spouse does not wish to convert? I personally put my spouse first, and respect her choice to change her religion, that she made after we married Once again I will ask should I have acted in true biblical style and refused her permission to think for herself , or had our marriage annulled, or simply had her stoned to death? What would you have done?

Quote:

however because they are not in a personal relationship with Christ, are not born again and are not technically Christians; they are simply church goers.

You keep trying to disassociate yourself with the true history of christianity and pretend to be all sweetness and light. Your version of christianity was not recognisable to the six million Jews who were exterminated by christians in Europe seventy years ago, any more than it was by the residents of Jerusalem (both Jewish and Moslem) when the christians captured the cith during the crusades. Nor is it recognisable to the blacks in Africa who had their lands stolen by christian missionaries, or the American indians who were massacred and exterminated by germ warfare carried out deliberately by christian groups. Your religion has been a taint on humanity and a blight on the entire globe, and far from declaring your sanctimonious self righteousness, you should be doing something to make amends for all of the damage that you and your predecessors have done. But you won't, you will continue to claim that you cannot do evil. Only religion can sell the idea of comitting unspeakable atrocities "for the glory of good"

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You think that homosexuals are oppressed and yet you don't see the oppression the destruction of marriage would bring to school children

The only schoolkids that I ever saw being oppressed were the ones being bullied by christians for the awful crime of being different. Two that I knew of at school took their own lives as a result, and the response from the ordained priests that were the senior staff was one of "good riddance". True christian charity at work in the community when a person died because he had a speech impediment.

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We saw what happened to Lillian Ladele and we see what the liberals are doing to Christian B&B owners

Yes indeed we did. she refused to do the full job that she was paid to do and expected her fellow workers to pick up the slack for no additional pay. She believed that it was her right to discriminate against people in defiance of the law because the law does not apply to her self styled master race of religious bigots. As for the B&B owners, what would be the legal standing if you substituted the word black for homosexual. When I was younger you used to see signs reading "No blacks, no dogs, no Irish" on accomodation adverts. These attitudes have changed and you no longer see Irish having to take third place behind dogs.
You keep claiming to be oppressed but I now challenge you to name anybody who has been jailed in this country in the last five hundred years simply for being a christian. And evenon the few occasions that a homosexual didn't do time they were still treated in a way that Lilian Ladele would not recognise.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BrianK

Leaving two practising homosexuals to walk down the street in peace is a lot different to letting the 'gay agenda' destroy marriage. One things for sure Jesus would not look kindly on a society which attempts to subvert and destroy marriage in the way David Cameron & Alex Salmond have in mind. Think again.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Leaving two practising homosexuals to walk down the street in peace is a lot different to letting the 'gay agenda' destroy marriage

What you believe is in a gay conspiracy to push the 'Gay Agenda'. In reality the real gay agenda is the same want we all have. The right to live, the right to love, and the right for each individual to self determine and follow out their own path. In the end to live in a nation that measures not by who they sleep but by the content of their character.

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One things for sure Jesus would not look kindly on a society which attempts to subvert and destroy marriage

50% of marriages end in divorce. That is the large destruction to marriage and something Jesus was against. Why do you apply his likes and dislikes willy nilly?

@BrianK

Quote:

50% of marriages end in divorce. That is the large destruction to marriage and something Jesus was against.

Yeah and people will be judged for giving up on their marriages in such a throw away manner. In the same way people will be judged for attempting to destroy the very definition of marriage itself, especially since very few actual practising homosexuals want the change themselves!!

Last edited by BigD on 28-Oct-2012 at 10:52 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios