@BigD

Quote:

It is true that equality has already been reached with civil partnerships

False civil partnerships is still not marriage.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/17/gay-marriage-civil-partnerships

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@BigD

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The Quakers and Unitarian churches are in no way representative of Christian churches

I have to agree with you here, but not for the reason that you may believe. The reason that the Quakers and Unitarians are unrepresentative of christianity is that there is no recorded instance of either of them launching genocidal attacks on people for no valid reason. There is no Quaker TorquemadaTorquemada, nor is there a Unitarian "Bloody Mary".
Despite this, unless your name is Jesus Christ, the decision as to who is, or is not a christian is not for you to make. This is the point that all religious bigots make when they set out to torture and kill in the name of a man whose prime tenet was supposedly "Love thy neighbour"

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Faith in Jesus Christ as the one and only way to God is not simply another religion among many

Actually christianity IS just another religion, whose adherents pretend to be following the instructions given in a book that claims divine inspiration. There is nothing in the claims of your religion that is not duplicated by most of the other religions on the face of the earth. Sadly for your particular superstition, many other religions have a better grounding in the practice matching the rhetoric.

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None of the false gods can guarantee this and it is entirely wrong for you to speak about the cult-like beliefs of the Quakers and Unitarians as on par with 'Christian' belief.

All gods are false gods, and none offer any guarantees, other than their followers being easily manipulated into committing the most inhumane acts by their leaders, in the name of their deity of choice. It takes something like a religion to make members of a caring profession feel justified in refusing madical intervention causing a young woman to die a particularly futile and painful death. I notice that you keep ignoring the death of a Hindu at the hands of the self-righteous. Do you honestly believe that a truly loving deity could rejoice at the death of a Hindu?

I will repeat one of my earlier questions. Why, in a democratic country, should 1.8% of the population of the country should have the right of veto over the rest of the poulation?

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@Nimrod

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All gods are false gods, and none offer any guarantees, other than their followers being easily manipulated into committing the most inhumane acts by their leaders, in the name of their deity of choice.

It is a very weird sort of 'mixed religion' marriage you're in where you openly deny the concept of ANY God even Jesus Christ and His saving grace that your wife has already accepted!

You better hope she never reads this

Last edited by BigD on 20-Nov-2012 at 12:03 AM.

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@Nimrod

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Do you honestly believe that a truly loving deity could rejoice at the death of a Hindu?

While very sad for the husband there is every likelihood that the mother would have died anyway. As for the wider significance; it is a smoke screen;

Out of 6.3 million abortions in the UK, only 143 were to save a woman's life!

A change in the Irish law would do little good and end up killing millions upon millions of babies for social reasons; no better than the holocaust

Last edited by BigD on 20-Nov-2012 at 12:09 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@BigD

Quote:

Out of 6.3 million abortions in the UK, only 143 were to save a woman's life! A change in the Irish law would do little good and end up killing millions upon millions of babies for social reasons; no better than the holocaust

During the time of Jesus, 0-50AD, abortion was permissible under Roman Law. Jews, Romans, and early Christians all took part in abortion.

The question I have is why do you think Jesus said nothing about the practice? The Gospels have nothing to say.

@BrianK

Exodus 20:13 & Deuteronomy 5:17
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“You shall not murder.

It seems pretty clear and it's not as if Jesus refuted the Old Testament. The new covenant made some sin offerings unnecessary but it did not remove the 10 commandments or the majority of the teachings of the Old Testament.

Jesus reaffirms the fact we should not murder which would obviously include unborn children;

Matthew 5:21
Quote:

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
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@BigD

Quote:

t is a very weird sort of 'mixed religion' marriage you're in where you openly deny the concept of ANY God even Jesus Christ and His saving grace that your wife has already accepted!

Even atheism is a religious viewpoint, and "mixed religion" means the parties to the marriage not blindly adhering to the others religious beliefs. Just as I do not worship her deity, she is free to not worship mine. My quoting the atheistic viewpoint that all gods are false, was intended to point out that there is no religion that has any proof that it is less ridiculous than any other. There is nothing that sets your "Jesus Christ" as being any more valid as a religious icon than the holy prophet Muhammad, or even the Buddha.

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You better hope she never reads this

My wife is fully aware of my religious viewpoint, and unlike others in the history of her religion, she does not see it as an excuse for the sort of genocide that the christians are renowned for.

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While very sad for the husband there is every likelihood that the mother would have died anyway.

Yet again you demonstrate you christian propensity to make up any lie that suits your hateful point of view. Medical professionals will tell you that treatment given early is almost invariablysuccessful. The reason she died was that medical treatment was withheld for three days. This is not acceptable in civilised society, and lies such as those you glibly trot out are nothing other than an insult to the rest of the human race.

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Jesus reaffirms the fact we should not murder which would obviously include unborn children;

It also includes the mother whose foetus is already in the process of being naturally aborted by the miscarriage, or don't Hindus count, as they do not bow down and worship the hate speech of BigotD.

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@BigD

Quote:

Exodus 20:13 & Deuteronomy 5:17 Quote: “You shall not murder.

Exodus 31:15
"For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death."

Deuteronomy
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
21:22 And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree:

Hmm, I'm getting mixed messages here? Do I murder the drunkard (and you for posting on Sundays), or not?

And you still haven't answered why it is you ignore/no longer follow some teachings, but still choose to follow the whole gays being sinful one (If you aren't stoning gays to death, you aren't following that rule properly anyway).

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 20-Nov-2012 at 12:37 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

Jesus reaffirms the fact we should not murder which would obviously include unborn children;

See this
http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_biblh.htm

Quote:

Exodus 20:13"You shall not murder." This verse is often mistranslated "Thou shalt not kill." Murder is actually being referred to -- the killing of a human person. Since the Jewish religion has traditionally interpreted the Torah as implying that a fetus as achieving full personhood only when it is half emerged from the birth canal, this verse would not apply to abortion.

and btw
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/12/amnesty-us-maternal-mortality-rates

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While very sad for the husband there is every likelihood that the mother would have died anyway

so now you are a doctor??

Last edited by jkirk on 20-Nov-2012 at 02:09 PM.
Last edited by jkirk on 20-Nov-2012 at 01:23 PM.
Last edited by jkirk on 20-Nov-2012 at 01:19 PM.

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@BigD

Thanks for the response on the question of abortion. I had asked for Jesus' words as "quoted" in the Gospels. Exodus and Lev. are not Gospels so an invalid response. But since you quoted them there are many things we no longer follow here. Like outlawing divorce, for a good example. Also, promptly after saying that God then had the Israelites kill the tribes of many nations, as documented in your book. The these later actions as acceptable it seems God only meant to not kill other Jewish adults,

As for the Gospel yes Jesus said to not kill. It was very strange that a he didn't spell out abortions or abandonment to nature as concerning. These were common place. The rights didn't extend to children or the unborn. An all knowing God would have known this and, if rational, should have spent a bit of time convincing people to give up common practices. Or ensuring the definition clearly covered conception.

It was interesting to me to see the Christian leadership trying to convince their flock to vote against the Dems due to abortions. The same leadership was quiet about Reps who support the Death for innmates. Certainly if we're not supposed to kill both are wrong. Though Christians seem to ignore that fact.

A good short rebuttle for all of BigD's charges and a few he hasn't tried yet.
http://newhumanist.org.uk/2905/31-arguments-against-gay-marriage-and-why-theyre-all-wrong

@BrianK

Quote:

Thanks for the response on the question of abortion. I had asked for Jesus' words as "quoted" in the Gospels. Exodus and Lev. are not Gospels so an invalid response.

If you'd read post #1586 a little more closely you'd have seen that I also quoted Jesus from Matthew 5:21

Quote:

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’

Jesus' words on murder blatantly cover abortion and infanticide. There would have been no confusion on this. There wasn't a crazy liberal feminist movement claiming "we'll lose control of our own uterus if Romney gets elected", back then!

Last edited by BigD on 20-Nov-2012 at 07:21 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

The 'yoked to an unbeliever' guidance is for already 'saved' Christians thinking about getting married to unbelievers.

It would be interesting to know what exactly you have been 'saved' from ?
Were you in danger maybe ? If so from what ?

I guess it must be something to do with their bigotted and arrogant behaviour in trying to push their superstition onto others that so many Christians seem to need to be saved. Now if they were just nice to everyone like they are supposed to be then maybe they would not need 'saving' all the time.

As for being born again - that just sounds painful and a wee bit gross.

It is incredible that people still believe such twaddle in the 21st century

@BigD

Quote:

Matthew 5:21 Quote: “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’

Since the Jewish religion has traditionally interpreted the Torah as implying that a foetus as achieving full personhood only when it is half emerged from the birth canal, this verse would not apply to abortion.

Or are you not aware that your religious icon was originally a Jew, preaching to other Jews? Since the quoted passage does not specifically alter this understanding of what constituted a person, it has to be assumed that it was specifically not intended to alter this understanding, and that denying life to all those little swimmers by wearing a condom is not tantamount to genocide.

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@BigD

Yes you did quote from Matthew. I posted on that topic too. What happened is an all knowing God came as flesh and told us not to kill. He wasn't wise enough to be detailed enough on calling out a traditional norm as wrong?

And yes there wasn't a feminist movement. That's what happens when minorities don't have rights. As for Mitt, voting for him is still a vote for killing. Mitt tried to write Capital Punishment back into law in Mass. And wanted to fund the military with more money than what the military requested, Life is not precious to either political party. No matter if the churches tried to sell the Republicans as loving life. In reality they love the fetus and after it is born then they want society to do nothing until the kid is old enough to die for their country.

@BillE

Quote:

As for being born again - that just sounds painful and a wee bit gross

I'll let you be the judge of that... Born again Christians, who needs 'em

Picture from : http://www.dailyhaha.com/

Last edited by Nimrod on 20-Nov-2012 at 10:12 PM.

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BigD

Quote:

Jesus' words on murder blatantly cover abortion and infanticide. There would have been no confusion on this.

Let's try this again

Quote:

Since the Jewish religion has traditionally interpreted the Torah as implying that a fetus as achieving full personhood only when it is half emerged from the birth canal, this verse would not apply to abortion.

aka You are applying modern definitions to ancient words. they are not equal.

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Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.

You should ace this test BigD

It's entitled "What Do You Really Know About The Bible?"

I helped you out with a couple of them very recently.
Here are some more snippets;

Oh and since you brought it up D. The whole abortion stuff.

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"O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalm 137:8-9)

So we shouldn't kill unborn foetuses you claim, but when you are smashing babies against rocks, you should feel happy!



Careful when you talk about liberals like they are a bad thing...

Quote:

"The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself." (Proverbs 11:25) "The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful." (Isaiah 32:5) "But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand." (Isaiah 32:8) "Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men . . . Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift." (II Corinthians 9:13-15)

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 21-Nov-2012 at 06:51 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 21-Nov-2012 at 06:46 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 21-Nov-2012 at 06:43 PM.

_________________
"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

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@Nimrod

Quote:

Born again Christians, who needs 'em

Aha, now we finally know what Big D looks like

No wonder he needs 'saving' !

Last edited by BillE on 21-Nov-2012 at 08:08 PM.

Christian Anti-Gay / Pro-Family lawyer arrested for child porn These two-faced Christians are far too common.