@CritAnime

Quote:

Still refusing to answer me are you?

I just posted a response are you slow or something? Surely you've got a shift to getting to

CritAnime Quote:
Quote:

@CritAnime Quote: So I want to know where your information has come from. I want to know what experience you have in this. Because it seems to me that whoever went through this is using Christianity and discrimination as an excuse been rejected and really they were rejected for a different reason.

BigD Quote
Quote:

You'd be wrong. In the case of adoption it happened to some friends of mine. It also happened to a foster couple HERE. In the case of fostering, the individual was struck off even though she had fostered 80+ kids because she took a 16-year old Muslim to church and she became a Christian. Here is the story; Foster parent who has looked after 80 children struck off...because a Muslim girl in her care became a Christian

Last edited by BigD on 07-Feb-2013 at 10:16 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 07-Feb-2013 at 10:15 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 07-Feb-2013 at 10:14 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

@CritAnime You'd be wrong. In the case of adoption it happened to some friends of mine.

You'll have to forgive all of us for being unable to take your word for that.

Quote:

It also happened to a foster couple HERE. In the case of fostering, the individual was struck off even though she had fostered 80+ kids because she took a 16-year old Muslim to church and she became a Christian. Here is the story;

Fostering is not adopting first off.

Beyond that the article says it could not get the comment of the council, so we have one side of a story.

Lastly nobody here has said they support Christians not being able to adopt (or foster) kids.

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@BigD

Quote:

You are not arguing as to why the law should change you are simply reprinting my points with your badly thought out responses!?

The law needs to change because the law as it is has been shown to be flawed. The fact that you see fit to ignore these flaws because they do not diminish your own smug self centred, self satisfied, selfish view of the world shows just how uncaring a "caring christian" you really are.

Every one of your so called "points" has been answered fully and clearly, usually by being proved to be a deliberate lie. All that you have done in response is to ignore the information given and the evidence for that information and repeat the original unfounded biased opinion.

When you started parroting the lies put out by the campaign for homophobia I had no opinion either way, but your holier than thou attitude convinced me that the right side in this debate was whichever side you were not on. The more that you continue to demand your privileges, and the more you make libellous statements, the more you convince others to oppose your vile bigotry, and the more support you force into the "pink camp".

I can still remember when male homosexuality was legalised in this country, and various idiots claiming that they were going to emigrate before it was made compulsory! Over the years the status of homosexuals has improved and at no time has this improvement diminished from my freedom to live my life as I choose.

You claim that the inequalities that have been exposed do not warrant changing the law, but I ask the simple question, if you were the victim of the inequality rather than the recipient of privilege arising from inequality, would you be so relaxed about the fact of second class citizen status.

Do you accept that a christian child should be forcibly converted and cicumcised on being fostered by a jewish family. And if not, why would you accept a christian forcing his beliefs on to a jewish child, or even a homosexual child. This attitude, together with the way christian disaster releif is selectively distributed as a "reward" for conversion shows just how little "christians" follow the teachings attributed to the galilean chippy.

Incidentally, you are not the only one who can cite newspaper articles about how christians spread the message of "love". Try this one for size and then you will see why christians cannot be trusted when they seek to spread their poison.

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@BigD

Quote:

Before you tuck your kid into bed tonight consider the damage the bill will do to children in every single Primary School in the UK when they're shown this rubbish;

I remember a book from my primary school. "The Little Red Lighthouse and the Great Gray Bridge" Funnily enough, in all the years since, I've never painted myself red and placed a bulb on my head as I stood in the shadow of a big bridge. Nor have I emulated a hungry caterpillar or made my cat wear a hat.

But that's beside the point. Where in the same sex marriage bill does it talk about book regulation in primary schools?

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Franko I think you've just excluded yourself from any further part in these proceedings. You really don't understand the issues at hand and when you can't get your own way you simply shout the old faithful; "You bigot"! "You homophobe"! Get a clue and grow up! Some debates are bigger than you can handle and this is one of them. If you haven't understood that being pro-marriage does not equate with bigotry by now there is no helping you. Quote: Shame you can't just admit to it and shut up... That says it all really. You're frustrated, angry and out of your depth. Go back to watching 'The New Normal'. Maybe you and SpaceDruid could have a DVD box set night?

Hmmm... finally I get a reply and whadaya know... you FAIL to answer the question posed in it... surprise, surprise...

Bit rich comments like that coming from someone whom only post posts half truths and made up "facts" from various national alleged "news"papers and the only comments that are his own are based on a book that doesn't even contain anything close to half truths or facts ie: the bible...

Twist away all your half truths, scaremongering, blatant gobshite and lies BigD , cos one things clearly obvious from all your posts here...

You live in a warped delusional fantasy world of your own and are incapable of even entering into any form or discussion using thoughts, Ideas or beliefs of your own....

I wonder, will you ever look back at this thread and realise just what a complete prat you came across as it in... I doubt it it though as your obviously mentally ill to some degree...

PS: I'm neither frustrated nor angry about anything you said here... saddened and dismayed by your ignorance and bigotry but frustrated or angry... no...

PPS: You have proven by your very own words here that you are a bigot and a homophobe, get a grown up to explain those words to you'll and you see that they are undeniable FACTS...

_________________

@Franko

Quote:

PS: I'm neither frustrated nor angry about anything you said here... saddened and dismayed by your ignorance and bigotry but frustrated or angry... no...

See earlier post. I don't have time for your hateful rants. Move over and let some with a grasp of the English language carry on where you never started

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

But that's beside the point. Where in the same sex marriage bill does it talk about book regulation in primary schools?

Schools have a duty to teach about marriage in the national curriculum and if the definition is changed then Stonewall will see to it that school children get all this gay agenda rubbish. Then you have your brave new world of homosexual indoctrination at a stupidly young and impressionable age. You should be ashamed of promoting this eventuality. Sick

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @CritAnime Quote: Still refusing to answer me are you? I just posted a response are you slow or something? Surely you've got a shift to getting to CritAnime Quote: Quote: @CritAnime Quote: So I want to know where your information has come from. I want to know what experience you have in this. Because it seems to me that whoever went through this is using Christianity and discrimination as an excuse been rejected and really they were rejected for a different reason. BigD Quote Quote: You'd be wrong. In the case of adoption it happened to some friends of mine. It also happened to a foster couple HERE. In the case of fostering, the individual was struck off even though she had fostered 80+ kids because she took a 16-year old Muslim to church and she became a Christian. Here is the story; Foster parent who has looked after 80 children struck off...because a Muslim girl in her care became a Christian

Ooo personal attacks now. So you give me a weak answer and then call me slow because you refused to give any deatils. Right

Oh and it's may day off so I am entitled to use a computer you know.

Can I make it clear how the system works. because i doubt your "friends" have a grasp on it either. They take every aspect of your life. They then asses you based on what was your responses were to these questions. if, for example, you say your christian they will ask you what your views on homosexual relationships are. If you say that you cannot justify it and say that homosexuality is wrong then they will consider this against you. How many children come from homes where they will have been picked on, even abused for been homosexual or suggesting they are homosexual? it would be considered a risk because you could be placing a child with a couple who could potentially cuase this child more distress. much like if you turned round and said you would take a muslim child, or a jewish child to a church. it would be going against their views and you would be potentially forcing a child into something and would be considred abuse. And not all children end up in foster care because of broken homes. Some go into foster care because their patrents/parent is ill and needs rest in a nursing home. So what happens if a child is converted to christianity against the wish of the parents?

I would suggest that if your firends claim they were discrimated against that they need to re asses this. After the process you can ask the social services liasion why you were rejected. They will have probably said things that flagged up with social services.

Also I would hope that when my child gets to school that they would be in a position where they know that been homosexual is ok. And that it is not right to discrimate against anyone for this. the only thing that is sick in this whole debate is the levels to which you will go in order to prove a none existant point. Even suggesting that i am harming my child in the long run.

It's saddening.

Last edited by CritAnime on 08-Feb-2013 at 12:03 AM.

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@Nimrod

Go to bed, spend some time with your wife and try and this hatred you have against Christians. You will feel better if you read the Gospel of Luke rather than getting yourself all hot under the collar on this forum. You'll understand your wife better and maybe be able to deal with your anger and sarcasm issues. Just like the Apostle Paul was saved from a life of persecuting Christians I pray one day the truth would be revealed to you and you'd know Jesus for yourself.

Just because your an atheist doesn't mean you can't be saved, just as in the same way people brought up in Muslim, atheist, Jewish, Sikh or Hindu homes can be saved and come to a living faith in Jesus Christ. There's hope for you yet brother. I'll make it a daily point to pray for your salvation. Tell your wife she can count in it.

_________________
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@CritAnime

Quote:

If you say that you cannot justify it and say that homosexuality is wrong then they will consider this against you. How many children come from homes where they will have been picked on, even abused for been homosexual or suggesting they are homosexual? it would be considered a risk because you could be placing a child with a couple who could potentially cuase this child more distress. much like if you turned round and said you would take a muslim child, or a jewish child to a church. it would be going against their views and you would be potentially forcing a child into something and would be considred abuse.

All this is completely unacceptable and redefining marriage will only make it worse. This system discriminates against Christians and you give me a lecture on how it works! Being saved and coming to a realisation that Christ died on the cross to set us free from our sins is a good thing and you (a nurse) treat it like a disease! Jesus doesn't force people to find a faith in him it's a personal choice.

Now that you see there's a inbuilt bias in the system maybe you'll mention it to your health professional colleagues and sort out this 'inequality' or is 'equality' something that only applies to practising homosexuals?

_________________
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@CritAnime

Quote:

Also I would hope that when my child gets to school that they would be in a position where they know that been homosexual is ok. And that it is not right to discrimate against anyone for this. the only thing that is sick in this whole debate is the levels to which you will go in order to prove a none existant point. Even suggesting that i am harming my child in the long run.

If you nurture your child into acting on their unwanted homosexual feelings then you are directly and knowingly encouraging them to knock about 20 years off their life expectancy due to the damaging effects of the homosexual lifestyle (AIDS, STDs, promiscuous relationships, etc). So yes, I'd say that is harming him/her in the long run.

_________________
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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: All this is completely unacceptable and redefining marriage will only make it worse. This system discriminates against Christians and you give me a lecture on how it works! Being saved and coming to a realisation that Christ died on the cross to set us free from our sins is a good thing and you (a nurse) treat it like a disease! Jesus doesn't force people to find a faith in him it's a personal choice. Now that you see there's a inbuilt bias in the system maybe you'll mention it to your health professional colleagues and sort out this 'inequality' or is 'equality' something that only applies to practising homosexuals?

Did I ever call christianity a disease? It is you that assumes this based on the fact I am atheist.

Your post above just highlights why someone like yourself wouldn't be considered for it. If this is how you spread your word, through fear and preassure, then it puts a vunerable child at risk. And if your prejudices are this strong then it is certainly a worry. The system doesn't discrinate against anyone for their sexuality or religious beleifes. But the system is there to make sure only the correct people, christian or not, are able to care for children in this way. If someone claims discrimination then it just shows how unable they are to do the job. The rules on this are as thick as your bible and they are there for a reason. Stop pretending that the whole world is against christianity. Lots of people get knocked back from adoption and fostering services.

Quote:

If you nurture your child into acting on their unwanted homosexual feelings then you are directly and knowingly encouraging them to knock about 20 years off their life expectancy due to the damaging effects of the homosexual lifestyle (AIDS, STDs, promiscuous relationships, etc). So yes, I'd say that is harming him/her in the long run.

Oh this old chestnut again.

first off I wouldn't nuture my child into anything that they didn't want. If my child came to me and said they were homosexual I would support them. Secondly your using unproven assumptions that been a homosexual somehow knocks 20 years off your lifespan, but we have already been through all this with you before haven't we. Thirdly AIDS, STDs, promiscuous relationships are all part of heterosexual life too. They affect everyone or are you forgetting the average weekend in any town and city thing again?

Also can I ask what eats you up more about be been a nurse? Is it that an atheist is doing a job that should be seen as more of a christian thing? That an atheist is doing a job where he cares for people?

So stop trying to muddy the water

Last edited by CritAnime on 08-Feb-2013 at 12:58 AM.

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Franko Quote: PS: I'm neither frustrated nor angry about anything you said here... saddened and dismayed by your ignorance and bigotry but frustrated or angry... no... See earlier post. I don't have time for your hateful rants. Move over and let some with a grasp of the English language carry on where you never started

In that case that rules you out of this debate as you cannot comprehend a single thing anyone has said to you as your constant inability to answer anything put to you has proven...

I reckon you must just look at all these words in total confusion and then guess (wrongly) at what is being said here...

Hmmm... as you can't read this then I can only hope a grown up or your carer reads this for you and tries to explain to you, what an idiot you have been with all your posts not realising that you never actually has posted an answer to most of the questions put to you here...

Step back from the computer BigD as either your dyslexia or poor level of education means you are wasting your time posting random shit here and constantly repeating the same tripe over and over...

PS: Your still nothing more than a bigoted homophobe, I hope your carer manages to get that through to you...

_________________

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @SpaceDruid Quote: But that's beside the point. Where in the same sex marriage bill does it talk about book regulation in primary schools? Schools have a duty to teach about marriage in the national curriculum

I've already asked, but perhaps I wasn't clear. Which class teaches the rules of marriage? Can you point to the bit where marriage is taught? I'm asking because I recall no such lesson and my kids haven't been able to identify any.

The best we could come up with was in primary one when we had spelling cards with words like "mummy" "daddy" "dog" "cat"

I do recall one lesson with the subject of marriage and that was the previously mentioned king who created his own version of Christianity in order to be allowed a divorce, you know the one, it's the religion you (claim to) follow now.



I'm not saying you are wrong, you may very well have the evidence you can present here, in which case please do.

Quote:

and if the definition is changed then Stonewall will see to it that school children get all this gay agenda rubbish.

What have Stonewall got to do with what teacher teach? I think you are getting your departments mixed up. The GOVERNMENT is the one that decides that through a series of departments specialising in child development and education. Stonewall is a pressure group not connected with the government.

Easy mistake to make I suppose. You are used to the idea that YOUR pressure group should control the government so I suppose you must expect that other pressure groups have the same rights. Sorry to be a damp squib, but no pressure group is responsible to making governmental decisions. That's why the MP's overwhelmingly voted for same sex marriage, did you forget?

Quote:

Then you have your brave new world of homosexual indoctrination at a stupidly young and impressionable age.

I always do a facepalm whenever you or your ilk claim this. If you want to talk about indoctrination, what about Sunday Schools and children being taken to church? Or infants being circumcised/christened/baptised? You don't seem to have any issue when it comes to brainwashing children to your own ideas, so I don't suppose it occurs to you at any point that not all forms of communication with children is about indoctrination.

Children being given books that helps explain why Johnny has two dads, Billy only has a mum, or Gemma is in care because nobody has adopted her yet, is NOT indoctrination. It's education. The difference is quite substantial.

Nobody, not even Stonewall has any intention of trying to convert straight kids into gay kids.

Quote:

You should be ashamed of promoting this eventuality. Sick

And there goes the last possible credibility you ever could possibly have had about you not being a homophobic bigot.

What's sick is teaching the story of Noah to kids. It's about the mass genocide of billions, what's sick is the Bible's morality where time and again, God murders millions or torments an faithful servant in order to impress Satan (WTF's that all about?) What is sick is telling children that they will burn for all eternity for having perfectly natural feelings that are beyond their control.

What is sick is your insistence that you hold any kind of moral high ground that you can think to lecture others.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 08-Feb-2013 at 03:10 AM.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

I'm not saying you are wrong, you may very well have the evidence you can present here, in which case please do.

From C4M's Gay marriage in primary schools booklet
Quote:

Not only will there be political pressure, there will also be a legal requirement to teach about same-sex marriage. Section 403(1A)(a) of the Education Act 1996 imposes a duty on the Secretary of State to “issue guidance” to ensure that pupils “learn the nature of marriage and its importance for family life and the bringing up of children” as part of sex education. If the legal definition of marriage changes, the law will require that children learn about gay marriage as part of sex education. Sex education is mandatory in secondary schools. Many primary schools also choose to teach sex education in some form. Wherever the subject is taught, the law requiring teaching about the importance of marriage applies. Worryingly, when the Home Office launched the consultation on redefining marriage they were not aware of the implications of this law. Even months after the consultation had concluded, an Education Minister confirmed that the department was still not sure how the Government’s proposals would affect schools.... ...Legal advice provided by leading human rights lawyer Aidan O’Neill QC confirms that schools would be under an obligation to teach children about gay marriage within sex education. In addition, if gay marriage is taught within schools outside sex education, Mr O’Neill says that parents would have “little prospects of success” in claiming a legal right to withdraw children from such lessons.

SpaceDruid
Quote:

What have Stonewall got to do with what teacher teach?

Information on Stonewall resources being financed by the Training & Development Agency for schools;
Quote:

An accompanying teacher training DVD produced by Stonewall, with support from the taxpayer-funded Training and Development Agency for Schools, suggests that pupils must become “resilient” to the values of their parents and grandparents. This is in reference to some parents and grandparents who may have objections to issues such as gay marriage.

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@BigD

Quote:

Not only will there be political pressure, there will also be a legal requirement to teach about same-sex marriage. Section 403(1A)(a) of the Education Act 1996 imposes a duty on the Secretary of State to “issue guidance” to ensure that pupils “learn the nature of marriage and its importance for family life and the bringing up of children” as part of sex education. If the legal definition of marriage changes, the law will require that children learn about gay marriage as part of sex education. Sex education is mandatory in secondary schools. Many primary schools also choose to teach sex education in some form. Wherever the subject is taught, the law requiring teaching about the importance of marriage applies.

Thank you for finally backing up a claim with evidence (That's credible). That explains why I don't remember it as sex education when I was young consisted of dissecting a frog.

Edit: Having now looked at the said act, I can see the quotation you used, missed out one of the most important parts.

F2(1A)
The Secretary of State must issue guidance designed to secure that when sex education is given to registered pupils at maintained schools—
(a)
they learn the nature of marriage and its importance for family life and the bringing up of children, and
(b)
they are protected from teaching and materials which are inappropriate having regard to the age and the religious and cultural background of the pupils concerned.

Source, Education Act 1996

C4M misrepresenting the truth in order to project a false threat isn't new. That's pretty much the entire campaign, but I won't blame you for misleading with your quote, we know you don't check your sources.



OK, now that I have a context, please explain why you were trying to insinuate that primary school children would be taught about gay sex?

Clearly, sex education is aimed at those in their teenage years, by which point the children will already have an idea about their sexuality and the existence of homosexual people. This kind of education is designed to give meaning and understanding to the emotions the child is going through.

Previously, this information was limited to heterosexual relationships which left rather a lot of people confused. Fortunately, a much broader range of teaching has been available for some years now and my own kids learned about gay people at school and neither fear them or were converted into becoming gay because of this knowledge.

This does rather raise the question however as to why teachers have been perfectly happy to teach about gay relationships and sexuality without mass resignations or sacking and parents have not been thrown in prison for withdrawing their kids from these lessons?

For about 9 years, these teachers would have to have been teaching about civil partnerships as well, so we are not exactly breaking new ground here.

Quote:

Worryingly, when the Home Office launched the consultation on redefining marriage they were not aware of the implications of this law. Even months after the consultation had concluded, an Education Minister confirmed that the department was still not sure how the Government’s proposals would affect schools....

Forgive me for not trusting C4M's claims when already so many of them have been shown to be false. Would you be so kind as to provide the source they listed to verify this claim.

"an Education Minister" doesn't cut it.

Quote:

...Legal advice provided by leading human rights lawyer Aidan O’Neill QC confirms that schools would be under an obligation to teach children about gay marriage within sex education.

Well if marriage is to be taught, all forms of it should be. I see nothing wrong with this. This would of course be entirely legal.

Quote:

In addition, if gay marriage is taught within schools outside sex education,

Why would it? Unless we are talking about history lessons in 50 years, why would gay marriage be a subject discussed?

This is a clear example of conjecture in an attempt to make a situation appear more "threating" than it is. You should know, you've been doing things like this through most of your posts.

Quote:

Mr O’Neill says that parents would have “little prospects of success” in claiming a legal right to withdraw children from such lessons.

And that's clearly a lie. I was withdrawn from a lesson in school because of "differences" with a teacher. My parents were not thrown in jail. I was not tied to the stocks. This is one of these unethical journalistic practices where two separate arguments are joined together to make it appear like they are connected.

First the paragraph established the credentials of the expert, "leading human rights lawyer" where he says something non-controversial, "subject must be taught" then attaches something not attributed to the expert "if gay marriage is taught within schools outside sex education" and then attaches a quote from the expert again to make it appear like he was talking about the conjecture the author of the article inserted.

Standard tabloid ethics, or lack of them. For more examples, read any Daily Mail story ever.



Quote:

Information on Stonewall resources being financed by the Training & Development Agency for schools; Quote: An accompanying teacher training DVD produced by Stonewall, with support from the taxpayer-funded Training and Development Agency for Schools, suggests that pupils must become “resilient” to the values of their parents and grandparents. This is in reference to some parents and grandparents who may have objections to issues such as gay marriage.

Again, please provide the source the article that made this claim.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 08-Feb-2013 at 03:38 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 08-Feb-2013 at 01:38 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 08-Feb-2013 at 01:36 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Nimrod Go to bed, spend some time with your wife ... You'll understand your wife better and maybe be able to deal with your anger and sarcasm issues.

Nimrod was very nice and ignored this bit from you. Now that you've gone there what you go home to is fair game as well. What is it you go home to anyway? With your rage issues towards homosexuals right now best guesses from me would be no one or a gay porn collection.

Also we are all still waiting to hear why your religion's definition of marriage must be forced on government and other citizens outside of your religion. Until you address this directly you have lost this debate.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 08-Feb-2013 at 02:13 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 08-Feb-2013 at 02:12 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

If you nurture your child into acting on their unwanted homosexual feelings then you are directly and knowingly encouraging them to knock about 20 years off their life expectancy due to the damaging effects of the homosexual lifestyle (AIDS, STDs, promiscuous relationships, etc). So yes, I'd say that is harming him/her in the long run.

If a child expresses they have "unwanted homosexual feelings" the first order of business is to have them explore why they are labeling them as "unwanted". They may need the help of a therapist for that. The child may be heterosexual and just have a fleeting crush on a specific member of the same sex. Or they might be bisexual. They should be guided to the idea that they have plenty of time to figure out how they truly feel. They should be encouraged that if they are indeed homosexual there is nothing to be ashamed of. The age of the child of course figures in quite a bit here.

There is no specific "homosexual lifestyle". If you teach a child to respect themselves and others and to value their lives and health you have protected them properly. Lets assume though for a second we believe your idea that all homosexuals are deviants being promiscuous and live 20 less years. Well I say better to live to 65 happy that 85 miserable. Better to live to 45 happy than 65 miserable etc.

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@BigD

Quote:

Just because your an atheist doesn't mean you can't be saved, just as in the same way people brought up in Muslim, atheist, Jewish, Sikh or Hindu homes can be saved and come to a living faith in Jesus Christ. There's hope for you yet brother. I'll make it a daily point to pray for your salvation.

While you're praying for people who don't want it, perhaps you'll find time to consider the sin of pride and the trap of arrogance you are falling into with this pious cant.

Or perhaps you won't. I don't particularly care, really.

Quote:

This system discriminates against Christians and you give me a lecture on how it works

This system does not discriminate against Christians, and the gentleman in question has been kind enough to point out, without resorting to personal abuse, why and how this is so.

If you consider not getting special rights to do what the hell you like to be discrimination, fine. But consider this - if a Muslim couple had taken a 15-year old child from a Christian background to a mosque where they were subsequently converted, you'd be up in arms about it. And don't try to claim otherwise, its plain from your tone regarding other faiths that you consider your sad misinterpretation of Christianity as the only way to avoid hellfire - you'd be incensed.

Quote:

If you nurture your child into acting on their unwanted homosexual feelings then you are directly and knowingly encouraging them to knock about 20 years off their life expectancy due to the damaging effects of the homosexual lifestyle (AIDS, STDs, promiscuous relationships, etc).

Being gay does not knock 20 years of anyone's life expectancy.

But being abused, assaulted and excluded from society by homophobes like you can certainly do so.

Being convinced that one's sexual orientation is 'unwanted', and thus that one is in a very real sense sub-human is also certain, I say certain, to trigger low self-esteem issues, leading to self-harming behaviour and ultimately suicide if this negative reinforcement and outside judgement continues uninterrupted.

In today's STD-aware world, the only reason why a gay person would die any younger than an equivalent straight person is if they are made the victim of homophobic abuse of one sort or another by people like you.

The one thing that gay people and the liberal majority in favour of this bill want is for you to leave them alone.

To return to an older point you ignored:

You can't force people to act against their conscience and their faith. You, 'BigD', cannot force a same-sex couple to adopt your opinion and not get married. You cannot force a minister of religion who supports equal marriage to shelve this support and parrot your homophobic line to them when they ask.

You can't stop this minister from conducting a marriage between that couple.

That would be discrimination.