@BigD

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and we are still considering legalising euthanasia in the recent case of Tony Nicklinson.

Tony Nicklinson, in case you had got the wrong end of the story, is not mounting a legal challenge to prevent the state from carrying out a n execution, he is campaigning for the right end his suffering. He is not threatening your existence in any way whereas you and others like you are interfering with his ability to make his own choices. For centuries narrow minded bigots have been interfering with other peoples freedoms and using an invisible friend as their justification. Now that the rest of the world is waking up to your activities and thinking for themselves you call it unfair. If you do not like the concept of clinical abortion, then do not have one. If you do not wish to kill yourself , then don't. Just stop interfering with the right of other people to make their own decisions. And that includes having the right to get married to a partner of their own choosing.

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

There sounds your individualistic mindset again! That mindset has a few problems though, one is that our taxes are used for the state funding of KILLING BABIES SO WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SILENCE ON THIS ISSUE. Like the doctors that signed death warrants rather than stand up to the Nazis, we are guilty too.

In the same way, if we stand by and watch the destruction of marriage take place before our eyes then we are partly responsible. Why don't you understand any concept of collective responsibilty? If World War III kicked off presumably you'd resort to self preservation and yell about how you know your rights and quote United Nations articles from your bunker while the bombs fall?

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Just stop interfering with the right of other people to make their own decisions. And that includes having the right to get married to a partner of their own choosing.

Just I wouldn't stand by and watch my country fall at the hands of external aggressors, I'm also not prepared to our sit back and watch self-centred liberals try and unravel the moral fabric of Great Britain and replace with their pseudo-liberal ideals which are about as hollow as the Conservative's pledge to support 'the family' in their election manifesto.

Just as it won't benefit society to weaken laws which currently protect vulnerable elderly people from being pressurised into taking their life so as not to become a burden, so I won't be advocating changing the law on marriage. Why would I not want the best environment to bring up children advocated, publicised and subsidised above 'flash in the pan' homosexual partnerships? Why would we want to try and ban churches from holding wedding ceremonies? Why would we actively try and vilify a large proportion of the UK's population for thinking there is a lot to be valued in marriage? Why should marriage be sacrificed for a very small number of homosexuals who want to have a wedding rather than a civil partnership? Presumably only because the liberals / progressives / homosexual lobbyists think they should have the word 'marriage' to engender a false idea that this is equality in action?

Let's remind ourselves that ONLY 39% OF HOMOSEXUALS SEE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE AS A PRIORITY!! Just as with the abortion issue, the rights of the individual should not trump the rights of unborn children so the rights of a few vociferous liberal and homosexuals should not trump the majority who are prepared to sign petitions, answer the government consultation and take flak for standing up for something that is still good in a country that is going to the wolves!

Final thought, since same-sex marriage is not a human right at all as judged by the ECHR perhaps we should stick it in the same reject legislation box as the pasty tax because it is taking as much of a stuffing off the general public!

Last edited by BigD on 20-Jun-2012 at 09:32 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 20-Jun-2012 at 09:31 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 20-Jun-2012 at 09:18 PM.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

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I'm also not prepared to our sit back and watch self-centred liberals try and unravel the moral fabric of Great Britain

What you are not prepared to tolerate is the concept that I should be free to live my life according to my own principles instead of kowtowing to your every whim.
I have no intention of forcing you to turn homosexual, have an abortion, or even kill yourself. You on the other hand have no intention of letting me decide to do any of these things. As it happens I do not wish to do these things any more than you do, but it is important that I should be free to do so if the need arises. It is this freedom that distinguishes our current society from the Nazis that you are trying to equate us to because we are too liberal.
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Just as it won't benefit society to weaken laws which currently protect vulnerable elderly people from being pressurised into taking their life

Learn to read. Tony Nicklinson is not being pressured into commiting suicide, He is going to court to be allowed to die. He is the one who is having to apply the pressure to be allowed to make his own decision concerning his own life.

You make a huge song and dance because a tiny portion of the tax take in the UK is spent on abortions, compare the minuscule percentage of the NHS budget spent on this one service with the amount skimmed off and presented to the CofE which is an organisation that does nothing to improve my health or happiness, and exists solely to protect its own interests and status. The greatest fear that the CofE has is that they will lose their elevated status and will have no more say than any of the minority faiths in this country.

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

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Learn to read. Tony Nicklinson is not being pressured into commiting suicide, He is going to court to be allowed to die. He is the one who is having to apply the pressure to be allowed to make his own decision concerning his own life.

Sure but his selfish actions may cause the law to be changed by Case Law affecting many more people than just him. But obviously he is in such isolation, pain and suffering that I'm sure he doesn't realise the affect his decisions have on the rest of the country

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You make a huge song and dance because a tiny portion of the tax take in the UK is spent on abortions

Telegraph - NHS spends £1 million a week on repeat abortions

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According to statistics, thousands of women are using the service to terminate unwanted foetuses; in some cases up to nine times. The abortions are understood to cost up to £1,000 every time, with five out of every six repeat terminations being requested by a woman who is unmarried. In 2010, 189,000 terminations took place, with more than 64,000 of them being performed on someone who had already undergone the procedure.

I wouldn't call that tiny and I wouldn't call that insignificant. Images of Auswitch spring to mind but with incinerators instead of gas chambers. And the mass killing is being carried out in a grisly way that isn't befitting of a civilised country.

16 May 2010 - The Sunday Times
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A member of staff at NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde said they saw aborted babies being placed in disposal bags and sent for incineration along with used bandages, swabs, dressings and syringes.

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Speaking to The Sunday Times on condition of anonymity, the member of staff said that on one occasion earlier this year six plastic bags each containing a single foetus, were placed in a clinical waste bin to be burned.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

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There sounds your individualistic mindset again

You start out fairly good - you extend individualistic rights to the fetus to self determine it's outcome in life. True you give up the rights of the parents and make them subjective to State control in that relation. But, strangely those individual rights or the fetus are no longer valid once the fetus is born. The person is then unable to have the individual freedom to choose who they love. The person is then unable to have the individual freedom to choose when their life is over.

Your view is backwards.. You give freedoms to the unborn and once born the person is subjecated to the dictates of the State. When people are forced to give up their individual freedoms that's when your views evoke the fasicst, Nazi, state that you so falsely blame others at falling into.

@BrianK

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Your view is backwards.. You give freedoms to the unborn and once born the person is subjecated to the dictates of the State.

Nice comment, reminds me of something George Carlin said.

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When people are forced to give up their individual freedoms that's when your views evoke the fasicst, Nazi, state that you so falsely blame others at falling into.

I must admit, BigD going on about Liberal Nazis had me more than a bit confused. Despite this statement of his, he is not being required to give up any of his freedoms. He just refuses to allow other people to have freedoms.

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

That's what they say; the father you go to the far right or far left the more you end being similar to the other extreme! Stalinist rule resulted in the same destruction that Nazi fascism did! That's probably how thinks will pan out in the UK! The liberal agenda if allowed to run riot will begin to look like fascism! How about this for the new liberal slogan;

"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than other!"

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

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That's what they say; the father you go to the far right or far left the more you end being similar to the other extreme

The only people who think Liberals are far right are communists, and the only people who see liberals as lefties are the fascists. The entire principle of Liberalism is the avoidance of extremism. Both extremes seek to remove the freedoms of the individual while Liberals deem the right of the individual to have the freedom to do anything that does not interfere with the rights and freedoms of others to be paramount.
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"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than other!"

That is the status quo at the moment. CofE members have an automatic place in the lawmaking system of this country, and can force non members of their congregations to follow their rules, and pay money to them. This power is not shared by other religions in this country. If I do not want to face Mecca and pray five times a day, I simply do not become a muslim. If I do not want to play golf, I simply do not join the local golf club. As things stand I do not have this same freedom to not live as a member of the CofE. This is despite the fact that only 6% of the population actually attend Cof E churches, and in my locality the only places with increasing congregations are run by the muslims and the jehovahs witnesses. Once there are more people attending mosques in this country than there are attending churches, will you be happy to be required to pray five times a day, or possibly go round delivering copies of the watchtower.

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

Dont' get why anyone who wants to kill themselves needs "legal" permission to do so. If your going to kill yourself just go ahead and do it no amount of laws saying it's illegal can stop you if you really want to take your own life, so why bother asking someone else to make an new law just to say it's alright... makes no sense at all...

There are plenty of laws that say killing others is illegal but does that prevent a murderer from doing so...

If someone really wants to commit suicide then that's up to them, it has no effect on the rest of us and only affects their own immediate, friends, family & relatives...

Dunno what's wrong with some people today that they need laws for absolutely everything in their lives or "permission" or "approval" from others to do anything in their lives...

Gawd, and they call us an advanced society... pardon me while I start up campaign to make it legal to fart in public without people giving me looks of disgust...

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@BigD

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Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than other!"

If everyone was equal they could marry whomever they wanted.

@Franko

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Dont' get why anyone who wants to kill themselves needs "legal" permission to do so

Under normal circumstances they don't, but this particular case is not normal circumstances. The man is only capable of moving his eyes, and as a consequence needs somebody to do it for him. He needs to get permission for a doctor to show him the same mercy we would give to a dying dog, or his alternative is to request no further nutrition, and starve to death. In this he is still depending on others to respect his wishes, but starving to death is a very unpleasant way to go.

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When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BigD




@Everyone else

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"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

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@Nimrod

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Nimrod wrote: @Franko Under normal circumstances they don't, but this particular case is not normal circumstances.

Well if he can still use his eyes someone just needs to hold a laptop in front of him and let him read BigD's posts, if that doesn't give him a heart attack nothing will...

Seriously though, I never bothered to look up the link to that particular guy as the links posted here by a certain someone tend to lead you to sites full of fairy stories and made up not even half truths...

There is no pleasant way to go I wouldn't think and no ones ever came back to say otherwise but even through the guy has my sympathy, if starvation is his only option and his life is that bad he feels the need to end it, then starvation will do the job just as well as any other way...

I'll never understand why anyone else feels the need to have a say in whether someone takes their own life or not as at the end of the day our own lives are all we truly own in life and if one chooses to end it then it's basically got nothing to do with anyone else...

Seems to me some folk spend most of their lives trying to live someone else's...

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@BigD

Turns out Homosexuality is illegal in 41 out of the 54 Commonwealth Nations. So much for equal.

@BigD
Thank a gay for enabling your post.
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18440557

Refusal to rent club out for an evening due to the married couple being gay. LINK Human Rights Issue? Or that radical gay agenda at work?

Is this any different than the discrimination displayed in refusing to sell a home to blacks Human Rights issue? Or that radical black agenda at work?

Discrimination is discrimination and it's all ugly. Loyal readers, you can decide where you fall on this.

Last edited by BrianK on 24-Jun-2012 at 01:16 PM.

@BrianK

Big week for Scotland - and some decent analysis here:

http://www.humanism-scotland.org.uk/content/same_sex_marriage_infographic/

@AndyC

Teachers could be forced to promote gay marriage in classrooms

Doesn't sound like equality to me! What about the parents' right to have their children taught traditional morality and relationships. We seem obsessed with reducing teenage pregnancy on one hand while educating our children how to carry out increasingly inappropriate sexual acts at an ever younger age. What happened to childhood? What happened to society?

The 'Gay Rights Agenda' is being used to destroy our central building blocks of society and common morality under the guise of 'Equality'. Traditional morals are being replaced with a hollow political correctness and 'pseudo-equality' which in reality will mean churches persecuted in the same way that Christian Adoption Agencies are post the 'Same Sex Adoption Bill'! Having just visited the Nazi Rally Ground in Nuremberg, Germany I'd say we're definitely on the slippery slope to social extremism in the UK. Rioting in our cities, a lack of faith in our Government, an incresing interest in Marxist ideals and the failure of capitalism in Europe, intolerance is growing towards Christians and it's a case of 'Everyone's equal but homosexuality is the right that trumps the rest'!!

What about the right to raise our children free of overt sexually perversion in our schools, tv media and web pages? Politicians should concentrate on getting automatic porn filters in place to limit childrens' exposure to this filth, not increasingly teaching it in our schools while also attempting to raise homosexuality to on par with marriage! Save marriage, protect our children and stop this waste of public money!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@AndyC

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Big week for Scotland - and some decent analysis here: http://www.humanism-scotland.org.uk/content/same_sex_marriage_infographic/

Good infographic and article Thanks.


@BigD

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What happened to society?

Hopefully it grows up, stops living in fear, and instead accepts equality.

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Having just visited the Nazi Rally Ground in Nuremberg, Germany I'd say we're definitely on the slippery slope to social extremism in the UK.

Yes BigD isn't it amazing that unlike Nazi Germany the UK doesn't kill it's homosexuals.

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intolerance is growing towards Christians

I understand the fear you have with this. Christians over the era have tortured and killed gays. Christians over the era have tortured and killed atheists. Christians over the era have tortured and killed non-Christians. Christians over the era have tortured and killed 'the wrong kind' of Chrstians. ... I can understand that you fear Christians might be treated like you've treated non-Christians for centuries. (Note I in no way promote harm to anyone, including Christians. But, if I go to heaven God's going to get an earful about his followers.)

@BrianK

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I understand the fear you have with this. Christians over the era have tortured and killed gays. Christians over the era have tortured and killed atheists. Christians over the era have tortured and killed non-Christians. Christians over the era have tortured and killed 'the wrong kind' of Chrstians. ...

Are you one of those people who believe that anyone who is "killing in the name of..." to coin Rage Against the Machine, is a Christian including Adolf Hitler, King Henry VIII, the crusaders etc? If there is no fruit that they are followers of Christ then I resent you referring to them as Christians. The Klu-Klux clan use crosses that doesn't make them Christian! As I have already pointed out Christians were behind the introduction of free education, the abolition of slavery and the introduction of our Biblically based legal system. Athiesm brought us Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot I think they killed more homosexuals than the medieval church!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios