@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: and the introduction of our Biblically based legal system.

You know that's one of the things that makes the laws of the UK and many other countries too, pretty laughable in a sad sort of way...

How can you put your trust in laws that are based just like you said on "biblical" or religious beliefs which themselves are based on fairy stories and myths about mystical entities...

Yeah, I know it's not compulsory to swear on the bible anymore in a court of law but at the end of the day you are most likely being judged on Biblical/ Religious based laws (and even a religious judge), which for a lot of people makes a lot of our legal system absurd, pointless & unfair...

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@BigD

Quote:

Are you one of those people who believe that anyone who is "killing in the name of..." to coin Rage Against the Machine, is a Christian including Adolf Hitler, King Henry VIII, the crusaders etc? If there is no fruit that they are followers of Christ then I resent you referring to them as Christians. The Klu-Klux clan use crosses that doesn't make them Christian! As I have already pointed out Christians were behind the introduction of free education, the abolition of slavery and the introduction of our Biblically based legal system. Athiesm brought us Joseph Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot I think they killed more homosexuals than the medieval church!

Let me help you. Here's fallacy you're looking to construct: No True Scotsman

As for your resentment. Resentment comes about because of a lack of ability of constructive thought or consise constructs of argument. What this statement is, is nothing less an attempt to use emotions to make your opponents feel bad and guilt them into agreeing with your position. On this topic here's a good comedian. One thing that makes comedy good is that element of truth they use in their act. Worth your viewing Steve Huges - Offended .. Learn it, live it!

Last edited by BrianK on 06-Jul-2012 at 02:45 PM.

@BigD

What's your problem, BigD?

Just leave people to live their lives how they want to. Isn't that one of your Christian ethical requirements, do unto others and all that? Denying others the right to live as they see fit while at the same time demanding that they not interfere with your Christian lifestyle, or indeed intrude on it or be visible to you or your children at all, lays you open to the charge of hypocrisy.


And while we're talking about that, drop the accusations of Nazism, please. It is, frankly, offensive. Although you are free to accuse anyone you like of being a Nazi, it isn't clever, it isn't accurate and it isn't funny. It is, in fact, a paranoid, hysterical over-reaction to the removal of institutional biases in our society that makes you look out of touch, stupid and, yes, hypocritical.

The proposed legal change means that churches can, *if they so choose*, be free to perform same sex marriages. I utterly fail to understand how this constitutes 'persecution of christians' (see the later image) in any way, shape or form. Frankly, you're starting to seem like you're just using that as a cover for blind phobia of the other. You are free to say 'I disagree with this'. But to say 'I disagree with this and anybody who thinks otherwise is a Nazi' as you currently are, is frankly, rude.


And a third point - homosexuality in schools. You may not be aware of this, but the school leaving age has actually gone up - its not fourteen anymore. It is not immoral to educate these older teenagers as to the risks, physical and emotional, of sex and marriage, nor is it wrong to provide the same level of support to those people who happen to be interested in the same sex or both, as to those interested in the opposite sex.

You solve nothing by refusing to talk about the subject in schools. Sexualities different from your own aren't going to disappear just because you've put your head in the sand and tried to preserve a sort of 1950s Enid Blyton vision of a childhood that never was well into the next generation's teenage years.

Last edited by T-J on 06-Jul-2012 at 04:54 PM.

@BigD

Quote:

If there is no fruit that they are followers of Christ then I resent you referring to them as Christians.

Your resentment is noted, but totally irrelevant. If I am attacked by a group of "true believers", and their leaders not only fail to condemn these attacks, but goad their followers into further attacks, then the entire group are judged as a whole. You cannot later make the excuse "That wasn't supposed to happen, therefore it didn't happen."

Quote:

As I have already pointed out Christians were behind the introduction of free education, the abolition of slavery and the introduction of our Biblically based legal system.

Christians were also behind the Albigensian Crusade and the crusade against the Emirate of Cordoba. They were responsible for the Spanish Inquisition, as well as the genocide against the indigenous population of South America. Mary Tudor re-introduced catholicism to England in a manner that earned her the soubriquet "Bloody Mary", and a few years later Oliver Cromwell travelled around Scotland and Ireland, gently preaching the benefits of puritanism, while making lots of new friends. (Feel free to go to Drogheda or Wexford and repeat the previous statement in a pub of your own choosing, you should get a warm and rousing reception)

Free Education The Aztecs were one of the pioneer cultures in this respect, while Frederick the great of Prussia intoduced the first recognised modern education system in 1763. In England prior to 1662 religious dissenters were not permitted to recieve any formal education. Far from spreading the benefits of education Christianity tried to control and limit its spread, and fought a long and bitter rearguard action for many years.

Abolition of slavery While it is true that the lawmakers in the UK that passed laws abolishing slavery were inspired by their religious belief in equality, they were primarily from the more radical, non establishment fringe who held opinions that equality was important, and they were opposed by religious leaders who held that duty and obedience were important, and quoted their holy books in support of slavery. Since the majority of the debate was between christiansand otherchristians, it is obvious that the christians will win. It's like claiming that America won the American civil war, while ignoring the fact that America also lost the American civil war.

Our biblically based legal system A system that discounts any evidence that is given by a non religious affirmation as intrinsically less true than evidence given after holding a book. Truth is truth and lies are lies, and it makes no difference if the speaker has sworn on a bible or the Concise Oxford Dictionary. In court everybody gives oath on a holy book to make their evidence more valuable, but half of them go on to lose their case anyway.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BigD

You are clearly unhinged. This is fantastical nonsense, laced with paranoid ravings and ridiculous statements.

Teachers will teach what the government legislates them to teach, via the national curriculum. If this presents a problem, they can look for work in private schools or other establishments that are exempt from this.

Similarly, parents can choose to take their children out of the system (e.g. home schooling), but this could have major impacts to home life and the child's social development.

Informing children about the concept of sexuality, and ensuring that the minority of children who start to comprehend their own homosexuality are not singled out, persecuted or otherwise disadvantaged, is crucial, and it is every educators' obligation to play their part in this.

No teacher, anywhere, is sitting down with a class room full of young children and explaining the ins and outs (pardon the pun) of sexual acts of foreplay and intercourse.

Teaching children about sexuality is entirely different to promoting one sexual orientation over another.

I despair of you, I really do...

@AndyC

Quote:

No teacher, anywhere, is sitting down with a class room full of young children and explaining the ins and outs (pardon the pun) of sexual acts of foreplay and intercourse.

You are lying and deluded;

These Channel 4 programmes (now on DVD) are routinely recommended by local education authorities for use with school children such as this one;

Channel 4 Sex Education Materials is not fit for purpose!

Homosexuality is a life choice that does not need to be shared with 5, 6 and 7 year olds!

Look at this rubbish;

Sex education: Do we want 5 year old children given explicit lessons?

Last edited by BigD on 06-Jul-2012 at 11:47 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Homosexuality is a life choice that does not need to be shared with 5, 6 and 7 year olds

Yes it does. In our society families are not a monoculture. We have interracial parents. We have single Mums. We have single Dads. We have some kids raised by Grandparents without parents. Some parents are Gingers. And we have some kids being raised by two same sexed adults.

Now I agree explicit descriptions of how naked people fit together isn't something a kid needs to know. But, they should know about age appropriate sexuality. Afterall they ARE experincing sexuality at this age. I can't think of any worse model than expecting ignorance will create an informed person.

EDIT: The other thing about education is it's also protection. For example, it's probably a very good for that 7 year old to know it's not acceptable for the Catholic Priest to touch his private parts.

Last edited by BrianK on 07-Jul-2012 at 03:36 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 07-Jul-2012 at 12:37 AM.

@BigD

Quote:

@AndyC You are lying and deluded;

Do you have any evidence or this claim, or are you simply exposing your prejudices for all of the world to see? There are some statements that AndyC has made on other threads that I disagree with, and think that he is mistaken, but I would never accuse him of lying. This is a harsh accusation that should either be proved or retracted, but I doubt that you have either the integrity or the honesty to do the latter.

Quote:

Homosexuality is a life choice that does not need to be shared with 5, 6 and 7 year olds

Sex, like death, is a fact that while we may prefer not to think about,does not in any way alter the simple fact that it exists. By the time I was seven years old, I and my classmates had been informed twice of friends who would no longer be with us, one as a result of a disease that can now be (but often isn't) prevented by immunisation and one as a result of a traffic incedent that is now even more frequent. I was also aware that there was a difference between boys and girls, and how and why some of us had younger brothers and sisters. This is the 1950's and 1960's as it was, not the Enid Blyton vision that T-J refers to, but acknowledges to be false. If you choose to remain ignorant of the facts, then that is your choice, but do not attempt to force that same ignorance on to the rest of the world. Ignorance may be bliss, but it is a bliss that includes high levels of STD's, juvenile pregnancy, and consequent infant mortality. If you consider educating childeren to avoid these pitfall to be disgusting then you have a view of education that I cannot accept. On the subject of your links, do you not think it a little bit hypocritical calling people out as Nazis, and then linking to an article from a rag that actually supported the Nazis during their rise to power? And from the tone of these articles, would more than likely do so again at the drop of a hat.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BigD

Quote:

intolerance is growing towards Christians

That is a bit much considering Christians (especially fundamentalist nutcases) are the most intolerant bunch of people on the planet !

If you doubt the truth of that statement just look at your own posts.

@BillE

Original Quote:

intolerance is growing towards Christians

Reply Quote:

That is a bit much considering Christians (especially fundamentalist nutcases) are the most intolerant bunch of people on the planet !

Your apathy towards one segment of society is how fanatical tyrannies like the Nazi Party get started. The Jews were marginalised because the Nazi Party perpetuated the myth that they were greedy, anti-german and holding the country back. Holding Christian morals and beliefs in our culture leads to persecution and demotion and it is clear that we worship the cult of the individual and pander to the whims (or perceived wims) of the homosexual community rather than make sure our culture is an equal and tolerant one across the board.

HOMOSEXUALS HAVE EQUALITY, IT'S CALLED A CIVIL PARTNERSHIP. DON'T LET A TINY MINORITY OF PRACTICING HOMOSEXUALS AND LIBERAL ACTIVISTS DESTROY MARRIAGE FOR THE REST OF US!

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2012 at 09:18 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Nimrod

Quote:

Do you have any evidence or this claim, or are you simply exposing your prejudices for all of the world to see?

Yes, I have proof.

@AndyC
Quote:

No teacher, anywhere, is sitting down with a class room full of young children and explaining the ins and outs (pardon the pun) of sexual acts of foreplay and intercourse.

This has been exposed as a lie; many local eduction authorities already promote this sort of material, see the article below;

Sex-education: Do want your 5 year old child given explicit lessons?

AndyC is deluded in that he doesn't know/acknowledge this is going on and damaging our chidren, desensitising them to sexually explicit material and then we wonder why this sort of thing happens;

Babysitting teen 14 raped girl 5 spared custody as judge says he was corrupted by internet porn

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2012 at 09:15 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Your apathy towards one segment of society is how fanatical tyrannies like the Nazi Party get started.

Your hypocrisy is staggering. You make a statement like this while displaying antipathy towards one segment of society and demand the right to continue this attitude in perpetuity. For the last two thousand years, people who didnt kowtow to the demands of christians were denounced as heretics and put to death in quite unpleasant ways. Now the tactic is to denounce independent thinkers and non believers as Nazis.

Quote:

Christians morals and beliefs lead to persecution and demotion in our culture

You never typed a truer word! For the last thousand years in this country "christians" have been persecuting non christian, or "wrong christian" groups, denying them the rights of free expression, free assembly, education, and sometimes life. You seem to be proud of this heritage, and when you are asked to stop, as in T-J's graphic, you promptly try to play the prejudice card.

Quote:

HOMOSEXUALS HAVE EQUALITY, IT'S CALLED A CIVIL PARTNERSHIP.

Two points on this
1) Stop shouting at me. It doesn't make you more right, I will not be bullied into changing my opinion. If I change my viewpoint it will be as a result of superior logical argument, and accurate information given, not intimidation.
2) If homosexuals had equality, it would be called marriage not the current, mealy mouthed, "civil partnership".

Quote:

This has been exposed as a lie; many local eduction authorities already promote this sort of material, see the article below; Sex-education: Do want your 5 year old child given explicit lessons?

You linked to this article before, and I read this article before. My answer to your question is Yes, I wanted my children to recieve a full, frank, and accurate answer to any and all questions they asked on all subjects. As a result of this I am proud to say that my three sons are now fully mature, hold differing opinions on a wide range of subjects, can logically defend their beliefs without resorting to name-calling or violence, respect each others rights to hold those opinions, and to the best of my knowledge, have never required treatment for std's. This is a total contrast to your own attitude of striving to impose and enforce your prejudices based on what your invisible friend tells you is right, which has led to the explosion of aids in Africa because religious groups are actively preventing education and the use of basic sexual health practices.

Quote:

Babysitting teen 14 raped girl 5 spared custody as judge says he was corrupted by internet porn

First let me state that the rapist was (and still is) an evil little piece of excrement who lack empathy and a moral compass. He also made pathetic excuses in order to evade the consequences of his actions, by portraying himself as the victim. The fact that the judge, who was possibly following some personal agenda against pornography, accepted the line of Clearly Ridiculous Alternative Perspectives, does not make it a fact. Where is the scientifically based, statistical analysis of rape figures before and after the legalisation of access to pornography that supports this privileged individuals opinion. Or must we once again blindly accept the adage that it is wrong because "my invisible friend says so."
Pornography has existed for thousands of years, as can be shown from the excavations of Pompeii, or the medieval hindu temples, and when Denmark became the first country to legalise pornography in 1969 the church view was that within three months sex crimes woul multiply exponentially, and by the end of the year the entire male population of Denmark would be blind and hairy palmed. When Denmarks sex crime rate fell, a US presidential commisioned report recommended that the USA follow Denmarks example. The report was rejected 60 votes to 5 with 34 abstentions as a result of religious pressure group lobbying. Once again the religious viewpoint is "Ignore the facts, do what my invisible friend says... or else!"
The fact that you have found somebody who expresses the same opinion as your own does not make it a fact, even if that other person does hold a position of authority.

Can I suggest that you google the term "Logical fallacies" and then look for the terms "Appeal to authority" and "Ad Hominem", paying particular attention to Godwins Law.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BigD

And, once again you pass off links to the Daily Mail as "proof" to back up your offensive opinions. Genius.

Clearly, pre pubescent children have no need to learn about sexual positions, foreplay and all the rest (and none of these links you refer to seem to be particularly risque in my opinion) but children approaching that age need to understand why they feel the way they feel, and how to express these feelings in a healthy way.

Linking to articles about 14 year old children raping young children in their care is hardly a reasoned argument against sexual education. Quite the contrary. It just points to someone whose upbringing and personal experiences (and probably a lack of decent sexual education) led them to do a very bad thing.

Anyway, this thread isn't about that, it's about how much you hate homosexuals and want to restrict the way they live their lives.

For the record, I have discussed sexuality with my 3 and 6 year old daughters - even explaining why some boys like boys and some girls like girls. Somehow I don't think they'll be overtly damaged by this.

Oh, and thanks for the links to those books, I think I'll head over to Amazon and order them now.

Cheers,

AndyC

Reviews of the books in question:

How Did I Begin?

Amazon link...

"This book explains genes, conception, pregnancy and birth in a sensitive yet light-hearted manner. The cartoons and illustrations, which abound on every page, make it a really fun book to read, grabbing the attention of young children. Everything your child is likely to ask you about the facts of life is covered this book. A really excellent find which has helped me enormously with my kids."

"This book is informative yet quite light hearted. Sensible and sensitive explanations which my five year old Grandson found interesting and which satisfied his curiosity about what his mum is going through. I would recommend this book to any second (or even third) time parent as a really good way of guiding siblings through the whole subject of pregnancy and birth without any embarrassment or "awkward" moments.

Let's Talk About Sex

Amazon Link...

"Our family think this is a brilliant book. It would be appropriate for children from ages (8), 9, 10 or 11 depending on maturity etc to about 14 years. The book covers "growing up, changing bodies, sex and sexual health" in a factual and accurate but often light-hearted way, recognising that children can be very embarassed about these topics, but do need to know the full facts and the context. It has been written for them as individuals and is aimed at their level of interest and understanding.
The illustrations are entertaining - accurate but cartoonish and the "bird" and "bee" comments at the margins are brilliant. The bee finds everything excruciatingly embarrassing and says so, but the bird loves it all and comments accordingly. Children can relate well to both characters and their thoughts at different stages of their development. They also begin to realise that the bee may be silly in being so prudish about natural matters and may adapt their own comments and behaviour in the light of this. We have used these characters to instigate family or individual discussions about these important topics - for example, prompting a discussion by saying "I can see you feel like the bee and find this very uncomfortable to talk about - would you like to look at the book again?" or "the bird loved this bit" and discussing more openly.

The approach taken in the book means that children go on to read chapters eg sexual health which they might not otherwise have read because they like the style of writing and the "aside" comments from the bird and bee. My children (two girls and a boy) read bits of the book avidly from the ages of about 9 or 10. They continue to dip into it as the months go by and as they realise the possible relevance of chapters which were a mystery to them previously. I still find it tucked in one or other of their bedside tables from time to time and would expect to do so for some years to come".

There are few things more irritating than people reviewing a book they haven't even read.

AndyC

@Nimrod

Quote:

My "RE-COMPILLED" Quote courtesy of Nimrod: "Christians morals and beliefs lead to persecution and demotion in our culture" Your quote: "You never typed a truer word! For the last thousand years in this country "christians" have been persecuting non christian, or "wrong christian" groups, denying them the rights of free expression, free assembly, education, and sometimes life. You seem to be proud of this heritage, and when you are asked to stop, as in T-J's graphic, you promptly try to play the prejudice card."

Read my 'ACTUAL' quote, it reads as follows;

Quote:

Holding Christian morals and beliefs in our culture leads to persecution and demotion

I'm sure you can understand the meaning of that statement if you concentrate and try not to twist the words before you! Again, I am not talking about Henry VIII or Cardinal Wolsey persecuting people! They used Christianity purely as a smoke screen to justify their own selfish and evil desires. Oh yeah and back in the last period of social decline (that partly mirrors our current time period) in the 17th Century people categorically entered the clergy as a career path not because they were necessarily Christians, probably a bit like a lot of Church of England/Church of Scotland ministers today! Some Godly men of the 17th Century like William Grimshaw, didn't become Christians until they were convicted of their sin and saved by the redemptive power of Christ's death on the cross while already serving within the church as an unconverted but fully trained ministers.

Christians are persecuted today if they speak about their faith on the high street and faced with demotion in their jobs if they talk or make a stand for their faith at work! That is TRUE inequality. Homosexuals have LGBT days and have liberal activists eating out of their hands to destroy marriage and rebuild it in their honour even though they couldn't care less about getting married and are quite happy with their promiscuous lifestyle on the whole!

No one argued that biological based sex education shouldn't exist in secondary schools but teaching primary school age children that is okay for them to touch each other private parts be it boy on boy or girl on girl or whatever is disgusting and completely inappropriate and has no place in our nation's schools!

This is taken from material recommended for 5 year olds;

Quote:

Sometimes as children are growing up, boys become curious about other boys and girls become curious about other girls. They may look at and even touch each others bodies. This is a normal kind of exploring and does not have anything to do with whether a girl or a boy is or will will be heterosexual or homosexual.

This sort of stuff will only get worse if marriage is redefined. Protect our children from these perversions and keep marriage they way it is.

Last edited by BigD on 08-Jul-2012 at 11:26 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

That last quote is entirely consistent with my childhood experience, as I suspect it is with most people (although it's possible not everyone here will openly admit it, as is their right).

I turned out (mostly) ok.

AndyC.

@AndyC

Quote:

That last quote is entirely consistent with my childhood experience, as I suspect it is with most people (although it's possible not everyone here will openly admit it, as is their right).

Even if that was your experience it doesn't automatically mean that we should be encouraging children to experiment in this weird semi-abusive manner. If we are encouraging them to touch each others private parts how is the line to be drawn or the warning signs noticed when an adult takes advantage of them? If they are being told that this perverted experimentation is normal then we are opening them up to the danger of adult grooming and the increased likely-hood that they won't report it if it happens!

All this social engineering is all very well stuck in the mind of progressive liberals but in reality you will damage a lot more children than you'll help by redefining marriage and hence our teaching of relationships in schools.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Read my 'ACTUAL' quote, it reads as follows; Quote: Holding Christian morals and beliefs in our culture leads to persecution and demotion

Are you honestly trying to deny the simple fact that throughout history christians have spread the "good word" of their gospels by carring out massacres of anybody who did not immediately fall to their knees and obey. Nor can you sweep these acts of genocide under the carpet by simply claiming "no true christian". I suggest that you go back and read BrianK's post where he exposes the no true scotsman logical fallacy. You keep trying to assert that conversion by murder was a minor and infrequent occurence in an otherwise peaceful and loving history. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Quote:

Christians are persecuted today if they speak about their faith on the high street and faced with demotion in their jobs if they talk or make a stand for their faith at work! That is TRUE inequality

You really have no conception of what the word persecution really means. I do not see christians in this country being rounded up and herded into extermination camps, or deported en masse. I do not see christians in this country being tried and convicted of gross indecency and as a consequence jailed in the way that Oscar Wilde was, neither do I see gangs of skinheads going round on a Saturday night doing some new equivalent of queer bashing that was such a popular pastime in the fifties and sixties. (That is the real fifties, not your Enid Blyton fantasy version) Christianity does not earn you an immediate dishonourable discharge from the military. The rest of the world is not trying to put the boot on the other foot, and take revenge on the current crop of christians for the hate crimes committed by their predecessors, we are simply setting a level playing field and asking you to stop making ridiculous demands on the rest of us. Look at T-J's graphic and take note of the message that it contains.

Quote:

No one argued that biological based sex education shouldn't exist in secondary schools but teaching primary school age children that is okay for them to touch each other private parts be it boy on boy or girl on girl or whatever is disgusting and completely inappropriate and has no place in our nation's schools!

Small children do know that there is a difference between boys and girls, and they are interested in these differences. If a child has been caught playing "doctors and nurses" do you gently explain that no harm has been done and teach them the facts that they have been trying to discover, or do you scream at them that they are disgusting little perverts who deserve to roast for all eternity in hellfire? The only difference between the quote from the modern book, and the one I read back in the fifties was the use of the words homosexual and heterosexual. Also, why wait until secondary school to start explaining where babies come from. When a toddlers mother starts swelling up do you tell them what has happened, is happening, and will soon happen, or do you fill their heads with rubbish about gooseberry bushes, or storks. What is wrong with the concept of telling kids the truth?

Quote:

Protect our children from these perversions and keep marriage they way it is.

If all of you Godbotherers think that sex is a perversion, why don't you just stop breeding, die out, and leave the rest of us in peace? And by the way, when this new legislation comes into effect it will not make any difference to my marriage. I will not suddenly start fancying men, and I don't anticipate that my wife will suddenly get an overwhelming urge to leap into a sexual relationship with some other woman.

Quote:

If we are encouraging them to touch each others private parts how is the line to be drawn or the warning signs noticed when an adult takes advantage of them?

Children do know the difference between playing among themselves and being set up by an adult. The reason that the children abused by adults do not report the offence is not that they think it is right, it is because the adult is usually in a position of authority, and puts the blame on the victim. The classic example is the catholic priest, who is supported by the authority of the church, but of course you claim that the victim should somehow recognise that the abuser in this case is not actually a christian, because BigD says so.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@BigD

Quote:

Christians are persecuted today if they speak about their faith on the high street and faced with demotion in their jobs if they talk or make a stand for their faith at work!

Not true.

I passed a street preacher yesterday while heading to the supermarket. A month or so ago there was a sort of 'preach-off' on Hanover Street, with two on opposite sides of the street telling us all about the Revelation of St John. And then a while before that, I narrowly avoided a large gathering of the faithful dispensing free tea and pamphlets to all and sundry.

This would not be possible if your fantasy of persecution were true.

And as for 'demotion at work', you take paranoia to new depths with that one. Believe me, anti-discrimination rules that prevent you from picking on everyone else anymore also prevent them from picking on you.

Quote:

That is TRUE inequality. Homosexuals have LGBT days and have liberal activists eating out of their hands to destroy marriage and rebuild it in their honour even though they couldn't care less about getting married and are quite happy with their promiscuous lifestyle on the whole!

More paranoia. Marriage isn't being 'destroyed' by allowing churches to deliver their sacraments to whichever couples they choose to deliver them to. And again you reveal your crude stereotyped prejudice with comments like this one on promiscuity.

Quote:

This sort of stuff will only get worse if marriage is redefined.

No, it won't.

Sexuality isn't determined by whether or not same sex marriages are legal.

And society isn't in some sort of freefall into depravity as you seem to believe it is. It is merely coming to terms with certain things it has not the power to change.

@T-J

Quote:

Sexuality isn't determined by whether or not same sex marriages are legal.

Marriage is marriage and can not be copied or emulated by two blokes or two girls who are not even biologically compatible!!!

Sexual preference for same sex relations/orientation in my experience and from the research I've done it seems primarily to do with whether you had a strong father figure or not and even then it is ultimately a life choice that shouldn't be taught and encouraged in schools. The main point is there will be many more confused and damaged children caused by the forced teaching of these deeply questionable practices as "NORMAL" and part of "HEALTHY EXPERIMENTATION"! Liberals activists and people pushing the homosexual agenda should be less selfish and weight up the net effect on society and that is a downward trajectory if marriage is redefined.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios