"US lesbian couple's son pens book on what makes a family"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19403608

At age 19, Zach Wahls became a YouTube sensation when he delivered a passionate speech on the floor of the Iowa House of Representatives in favour of same-sex marriage.

Three years later, he wrote a memoir about his life, his parents and the importance of marriage and family.

In his book My Two Moms: Lessons of Love, Strength, and What Makes a Family, Wahls argues that his life is not much different from most Americans, and discusses the pain of being painted as a threat to "traditional values". He says that family - no matter how it's constructed - is a fundamental building block of society.

In doing so, he hopes to deliver a message to other kids with same-sex parents who feel outcast: you are not alone.

_________________
"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

Google Translate

@BigD

Thought you might like this link. In 1537 the Pope issued a decree that Native Americans were individuals with souls and should be exempt from enslavement. Also, in this article are more links on decrees that Christians could take Pagans for lifetime enslavement. Just a bit more Church history you might want to familiarize yourself with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimis_Deus

@BrianK

Quote:

Toasters don't have any rights as a human and therefore cannot partake in human laws.

I always thought they went to Silicon Heaven along with the calculators

@BigD

Quote:

Your not my superior.

The only one who has attempted to establish superiority on this thread is yourself when you posted to the effect of "I am a scientist,so I know better than you" You have claimed superiority based on your degree, now either prove your superiority, or withdraw your claim. I do not claim to have a degree, and as a consequence I am not in a position to assert intellectual superiority, but when I make a point, I link evidence. I have linked to evidence of the history of christianity, and then, having seen the evidence, you post a comment that directly contradicts the evidence. This is not the action of an honest or trustworthy individual
Quote:

People can be assured that they can trust me but they certainly can't trust you.

Read the above comments to see why I do not accept your assurances.

Quote:

As I said their is no logical reason why once redefined to encompass same-sex couples why it can't be redefined to include polygamous relationships.

As I have already stated. Polygamy is a judaeo-christian tradition, strongly supported in Jewish history, and nipped in the bud among early christians by the pagan Roman Empire, and its secular laws. Just to show that I am not lying, here are a few snippets from your favourite book. Quote:

Genesis 16 1-4 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children : and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived. Genesis 25 6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had.... Genesis 26 34 Esau ... took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. Genesis 31 17 Then Jacob rose up, and set ... his wives upon camels. Exodus 21 10 If he take him another wife.... Deuteronomy 21 15 If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated.... Judges 8 30 And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten : for he had many wives. 1 Samuel 1 1-2 Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah. 2 Samuel 12 7-8 Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives.... 1 Kings 11 2-3 Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines. 1 Chronicles 4 5 And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah. 2 Chronicles 11 21 Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines. 2 Chronicles 13 21 But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives.... 2 Chronicles 24 3 Jehoiada took for him two wives.... :

So how can you condemn something that was authorised in your holy book, and stopped as a result of external pressure from pagans?

Quote:

Now when the law has changed he's encouraging homosexuals to sue these people out of a livelihood!

What this means is that he is every bit as odious as yourself. Anybody who deliberately sets out to instigate a confrontation or dispute deserves a good kicking, regardless of race, colour, creed, sexual orientation, criminal history, or disabled status. This law is to remove an inequality, not to let a petty tyrant get his revenge for real or imagined slights. Two wrongs do not make a right.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

Archbishop of Canterbury condemns child abuse failings

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19425149

"A "profoundly negative culture" within the Diocese of Chichester led to two decades of child protection failures, a report has concluded.

The inquiry by the Archbishop of Canterbury's office said "fresh and disturbing" aspects of the way abuse claims were handled keep surfacing."

"The report by Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams's office is believed to be the first of its kind in the Church of England for more than a century."

"The report said the abuse was made worse by the "very slow" way the diocese recognised events and failed to act with "rigour and expedition".

"A whole series of investigations and reports across nearly two decades bears witness to a profoundly unhelpful and negative culture in parts of the diocese that led to its failure to take the action needed," it added.

Responding to the report, Dr Williams said in a statement: "Safeguarding and appointments matters should be conducted under the supervision of this office until uniformly better practice can be assured.""



I guess we can add this to the ever growing list of child rape and cover ups of child rape conducted by the "morally superior" Catholic Church. Thank God we have them to protect us from the declining moral standards of liberals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 30-Aug-2012 at 09:26 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 30-Aug-2012 at 09:18 PM.

_________________
"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

Google Translate

@SpaceDruid

Priest claims kids are Seducers

@BrianK

I don't know how to even begin to reply to that.

_________________
"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

Google Translate

@BrianK

Quote from article;

Quote:

A papal bull is a particular type of letters patent or charter issued by a Pope of the Catholic Church. It is named after the lead seal (bulla) that was appended to the end in order to authenticate it.

So what? When you ask a Roman Catholic what religion the practice they say they are Catholic, most of them don't claim to be Christians so do you think I want to just defend religious people of all types just for the fun of it now? The Pope to Catholics is supposed to be God's representative on Earth because someone somewhere thought the role of the Apostle Peter should be continued ad nauseam. Great. What's that got to do with the thread?

Most people in Britain want marriage to stay the way it is. The Pope was was a relatively important figure in medieval times and gave decrees on slavery, shame on him (I'm glad Wilberforce - A Christian was around to undo this vile business). The Bible directs slaves how to live but doesn't say slavery is right! Whether the Catholic Church gave a decree on slavery or child abuse I fail to see what reflection that has on this thread??!! Maybe you tripped up on the way to the 'Catholics behaved just as bad as Henry VIII in the middle ages' thread?

Is this more 'New Atheist' propaganda?

Last edited by BigD on 30-Aug-2012 at 11:24 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 30-Aug-2012 at 11:21 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

In doing so, he hopes to deliver a message to other kids with same-sex parents who feel outcast: you are not alone.

Of cause they're not alone but let's not paint these underprivileged children as normal or indeed social engineer society until that situation is normal

Lacking a mother or a father is never ideal and I feel sorry for them. Hopefully children from more stable backgrounds aren't tainted by the depressing children's books like 'Tracey Beaker' that try andwhimsically tell the story of life in a foster family. Lovely . Just because it helps a child in a similar (bad) situation as the child in the story doesn't make it helpful to children who are blessed enough to have a mother and a father present.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Did you even watch the video?

You are a very sad and pathetic man full of hate and bile. You criticise a man who tells of the love he has for his family and you don't mention a single thing about the hate and vile behaviour of the rapist church members also mentioned in this thread.

You can't see love when it is in front of your eyes and you can't see the pain and misery your supposed moral masters have inflicted when even an Archbishop condemns it .

You are no Christian, that much is clear. You can claim you are whatever you like, you've claimed to have a degree, I do not believe you, you claim to uphold Christian values, I do not believe you.

At every turn the words you claim contradict the lies you tell. The only one that is blind to this is you.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 31-Aug-2012 at 03:17 AM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 31-Aug-2012 at 03:08 AM.

_________________
"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

Google Translate

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

misery your supposed moral masters have inflicted when even an Archbishop condemns it .

While I denounce the horrific actions of the Diocese of Chichester I take no collective responsibility for the failings of the Church of England.The Archbishop of Canterbury has his own church to run and I pray he would do a good job but what he says does not impact me and my faith directly. The Pope may argue he is the successor of St Peter, I refute that. The Archbishop of Canterbury may think he's the premier spokesman for Protestantism, I doubt that. His decision making is slow and lacking bravery to tackle the backslidden liberals in his own church. Compromise on that front has weakened his position and fragmented the Church of England. No wonder they seem to have lost control on who they are appointing to positions of leadership! On the basis of that are you attempting to denounce all Christians everywhere of being hypocrites? That is a vile accusation if that's what you are doing.

I will however watch the video clip of the same-sex family you have brought to my attention as that is relevant.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

So what? When you ask a Roman Catholic what religion the practice they say they are Catholic, most of them don't claim to be Christians so do you think I want to just defend religious people of all types just for the fun of it now?

Previously you had said that Christianity had nothing to do but reject slavery. You clearly didn't know church history. I provided you a link so you can catch up. As for Catholics aren't Christian that's just plain silly talk. Catholism is the root of most all Christianity. They worship Jesus like all the other Christians.

Quote:

(I'm glad Wilberforce - A Christian was around to undo this vile business

It is interesting that all knowing diety gave you a book to base your morals on. And that book is so ambigous we have Christians for and against slavery, for and against equality in the sexs, and for and against gay marriage along with positions that have changed through the years.

Quote:

Is this more 'New Atheist' propaganda?

There's no such thing as New Atheism. Everyone is born an Atheist. It's our culture that shapes our religious views.

I suppose the term 'New Atheist' is appropriate though. I consider the 'Old Atheists' the ones Christians burned at the stake and put their head on pikes. 'New' means 'oh goddammit we can't kill these too'.

Last edited by BrianK on 31-Aug-2012 at 02:06 PM.

@BigD

Quote:

While I denounce the horrific actions of the Diocese of Chichester I take no collective responsibility for the failings of the Church of England.

That is not what I claimed Twisty.

You have claimed throughout this thread that the Church is some kind of moral authority. This latest case of child rape is but one in a very long line of cases that involves considerably more than one diocese.

If you would like to familiarise yourself with the following list,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases_by_country

you can see it is endemic in the Catholic Church.

Quote:

On the basis of that are you attempting to denounce all Christians everywhere of being hypocrites? That is a vile accusation if that's what you are doing.

I have already stated

" I don't have any issue with religious people, most people I know have varying beliefs in a deity of one sort or another. My problem is with religious organisations (and those that follow that distorted mantra absolutely - as in the case of Twisty), because none of the main ones measure up to the standards they expect their members to do."

so yet again you distort the words of others (as you've claimed I've done). I have claimed with good reason that YOU are a hypocrite because of the very many instances in this thread, but I make no such claim about Christians in general as I've already said.

Quote:

I will however watch the video clip of the same-sex family you have brought to my attention as that is relevant.

You condemned a stable loving family unit that just so happens to have two parents of the same gender (which directly contradicts everything you've claimed about the family unit), then attacked his advice to children (and then attacked the children themselves - "let's not paint these underprivileged children as normal") who have to put up with vile abuse by "moral crusaders" like yourself and you did all this without even bothering to listen to what it was that he was saying?

This is why people don't regard your opinions as having any merit.


It is good that you say you will now do what you should have done before you spoke. Perhaps you can understand my anger with your previous post?

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 31-Aug-2012 at 03:44 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 31-Aug-2012 at 03:41 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 31-Aug-2012 at 01:33 PM.

_________________
"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

Google Translate

Brazil gives a gay man materity leave

@BrianK

While that is great, it would also be great if both parents were given maternity leave regardless of their gender. I had to go to work as normal despite getting no sleep or sympathy, the little git that stole the first one, also got all the second one...

That's why I made him wear shorts to school... (evil cackle)

_________________
"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

Google Translate

@ All

I've often wondered...

Why religious people are always "practising" their faith !!!

You'd think in 2000 odd years (or whatever length of time your religion happens to be going for) that someone would have got it right and mastered it instead of just "practising" it...

Strange that (slow learners, maybe)...

_________________

@Franko

Quote:

Why religious people are always "practising" their faith !!!

The problem a diety of infinite power can't get the job done. Sure he may have infinite power but it appears he's quite the procrastinator.

Last edited by BrianK on 31-Aug-2012 at 04:55 PM.

@BigD

Quote:

So what? When you ask a Roman Catholic what religion the practice they say they are Catholic, most of them don't claim to be Christians

Hmmm, so catholics aren't christians? That must be news to Catholics everywhere. Of course they are christians, they believe in this Jesus Christ rubbish. However, give them their due, they have over the centuries backed off and recognised when science is right and religion got it wrong.

It seems only fundamentalist nutcases don't believe the earth goes round the sun, or that the world (not universe as the bible says nothing about anything outside the middle east) is 6000 years old and things were dreated rather than evolved. It is your sort of bigotted Christianity that gives religion a bad name.




Quote:

Great. What's that got to do with the thread?

Nothing but YOU are the one who continues to drag your particularly nasty form of religion into just about every thread.

BTW. You will be delighted to know that Richard Dawkins talk in the Western Isles that the Not So Free Church tried to get boycotted was a sell out success. It just goes to show even in happy clappy land there are people with sense that want more than their narrow minded religions can give them. Lets face it, even if not aetheists MOST people are agnostic. Very few actually practice Christianity and as mentioned it seems no one has actually got it right yet.

@BigD

Quote:

(I'm glad Wilberforce - A Christian was around to undo this vile business).

So basically you are choosing to ignore an almost two thousand year history of genocide, rape, oppression etc and focus in on one person who acted to correct an injustice (perpetrated by christians) as proof that all christians are the epitomy of gentility.

And when I point this out to you, you ignore me. How typically un christ-like you "christians" are

Quote:

I fail to see what reflection that has on this thread??!!

You were the one who saw the legislation as an attack on religion in post #25, and then introduced a badly run poll on behalf of the Scottish Catholic Observer which was pointed out to be of dubious provenance. You then leapt to the defence of catholicism, and attempted to set christianity up on a pedestal as the supreme moral authority. I reject the claim that christians have a better moral compass than my own, based on their own history, just as i reject your assertion that I cannot question your statements because you claim to have a piece of paper stating that you are a scientist.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

@Nimrod

Post #25

Quote:

The church is the only group that exists primarily for the benefit of it's non-members by sharing the good news of Jesus Christ or by easing suffering practically.

I see no defence of the Roman Catholic church here. I think you are confusing the use of 'the church' which means the fellowship of Bible believing Christians worldwide irrespective of denomination as described in the Bible.

Last edited by BigD on 31-Aug-2012 at 07:35 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios