@phoenixkonsole

40meg? That seems strange. A 1920x1080x32bit image should use little more than 8meg. I wonder if there's any double buffering going on there? Even so it seems hugely excessive.

Either way, running multiple apps on seperate screens (especially with screen dragging) sure would eat into RAM pretty darn quickly. High resolutions would surely be out of the question if using full color depth.

I guess 16bit color would help considerably though, and used by anyone with even a few clues in regards to computers and graphics will be hard to distinguish from a 24/32bit image at those sorts of resolutions. A little skill goes a long way with computer graphics. Even 8bit images at those sorts of resolutions can be made to look very similar to a full 24/32bit image.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 20-May-2012 at 01:01 PM.

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:

BTW. Stephen i now that 256MB are too less because i made Broadway. Paolo will agree on this. With 256MB you can't do anything serious. Sure you can make a "COOL demo" showing a cool video running besides some easy websites.

Have to say I don't really know that much about "Broadway" (never found it very interesting to be honest) but your comment about not being able to do "anything serious" with it using 256MB of RAM leaves me gobsmacked...

Have things really got so bad when it comes to the Amiga (well the NG side of it) that even with 256MB of memory some programs cant do "anything serious" with that much RAM !!!...

If that really is the case then it's kinda sad that people who code things for the NG side of the Amiga are obviously too much into following the "PC" way of doing things (bloated & inefficient) and have either lost or never had the ability to code the way things were intended to be done on the Amiga, ie: code efficiently and to make full advantage of it's limited resources...

I use 256MB of memory on my A1200 and even with the biggest program running and doing various tasks all at once I've never come close to it running out of RAM let alone not being able to do "anything serious" with it, that's the real Amiga way of things be it classic or NG...

Maybe I'm missing something here but to me if a program on the Amiga can't do anything serious with 256MB of memory then there's something seriously wrong and simply not Amiga like with that...

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@fishy_fis
yep... my fault! Resized to 1080 it is only 2.6MB ..... shame on me! I have put the original file, a mosaic of some NASA images as wallpaper : D

Well... doesn't change my results with AspireOS because there I use the original Stardust wallpaper

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x86 aros powerhorseAresOne
AROS Broadway - get the most out of Imica and AresOne

@Franko

Things like webbrowsing and video dont really leave much room for RAM optimsations on any platform. The only way to optimise with some things is to omitt features/functionality/quality. Even the classics/os3.x would use the same sort of ram overheads with 1:1 situations.
It's very easy to use a few hundred meg browsing on OS3.9. I do it regularly, and that's even without all the frills the more modern browsers offer vs. the OS3.x counterparts.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 20-May-2012 at 01:19 PM.

@Franko
Hey Franko... don't get me wrong! You can do a lot but not much of serious stuff.

Playing games will work:
Quake 1-3.. no problemo
Watching movies... no problemo
Reading PDF's
Writing simple textes

What makes trouble is consuming heavy stuff or working with and on large files.
For examples Fotos:
Imagine you can only load a FOTO at a time...
Every layer you add will consume the same amount of RAM...
So kind of Photoshop style work will end rapidly.

In my main work we are writing Word documents with many images embedded, Hyperlinks and what not ever.. a manual for a powerplant weights sometime around 500MB... a normal Office PC has no problem with it, so you don't need to trim images or compress them (which enables also to redo them if needed at any point)..
Your are just faster.

This is not possible with 256MB RAM and no swapping.

And than there is the modern Internet which evolves rapidly and will suck up more ressources in the next 1-2 years than it does already.

Even now i can break a Amiga system with 256MB Ram in under a minute just browsing some heavy webpages.

Facebook here, ign.com there, gizmodo here, freemail there and bam. Reboot.

The thing "You" and "me" like is that we can be creative and productive with out "old" Amigas and old apps.... SURE!!!

But it is not on par with modern productivity.

Conlcusion:
Give AROS 512MB and it makes fun
Give it a gig and you are in heaven : )
Then you can safely run HTML5 apps, online office and so on.

256MB is not enough.

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x86 aros powerhorseAresOne
AROS Broadway - get the most out of Imica and AresOne

@phoenixkonsole

Its a mission impossible to convince him. Like its a mission impossible for him to convince you. Difference is you live now, he lives in the past.

@phoenixkonsole

Reckon I just don't get all this NG malarky and modern day home computing and seriously doubt I ever will... :-/

When it comes to the net & browsing I've always said it, the Amiga just isn't any good for that, heck even these old PPC 2.1GHz iMacs I've been using the past two years for the net are rapidly becoming defunct as more & more sites now only support Intel versions of plug-ins you need to view the web properly these days...

You see that's the difference with me I'm quite happy only editing two 24Bit photos at a time in ImageFX on my Amigas , simply because I know the machine has very limited power and resources in comparison to modern computers and I can appreciate just how well the Amiga can do this with such limited resources and thanks to some very efficient coding & skill by the programmers who made things like ImageFX...

Like I say I'll just never understand all this need for GHz of speed and GBs of memory (and not just with the Amiga, I mean PC's & Macs too) when it leads to some very sloppy, inefficient and very bloated software that still perform badly even with all those GHz & GBs...

Imagine for a minute if you took someone who has only ever written stuff for a PC or Mac and said to them I want you to write a program exactly like DeluxePaint or ImageFX...

Here's the tricky bit...

It must be able to run properly using only 2MB of RAM, ok I'll be a wee bit generous here and throw in 4MB of fast ram too (that's including the memory used for the actual program itself),...

Oh and by the way you only have at max 50Mhz of processing speed to do it all in (thought I'd be generous and at least allow them the speed of a typical 060)...

Could they do it !!! I honestly doubt it... and that kinda explains why to me the Amiga when compared to all the power todays computers have is more amazing than they will ever be and why I consider the Amiga as quite simply the best home computer ever created...

(Doubt anyone else would ever agree with me on that but that's just the way I view the entire subject)...

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@Kicko

Quote:

Kicko wrote: @phoenixkonsole Its a mission impossible to convince him. Like its a mission impossible for him to convince you. Difference is you live now, he lives in the past.

Think you miss the point, I'm not here to try and convince you or anyone else about anything,..

Just stating my point of view and listening to others along the way...

If only time travel were possible and I could actually live in the past, that would be bliss...

But alas, oddly enough it hasn't so here I am in the here and now having conversations about the way I view things with others who converse back saying how they view things...

Cept every now and then someone pops in (won't mention any names) to try and convince everyone that because I hold different views on things from most, that somehow means I have mastered the science of time travel and am in fact living in another time zone...

Strange thing is, that very same person doesn't seem to realise he's stuck in a time loop which he can't get out of and all he ever does in that loop is repeat the same message over & over again. which arrives in the now as "he's stuck in the past"...

You've been watching The Twelve Monkeys a wee bit too often I reckon...

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@Franko
There's some really good, efficient stuff out there in the modern world if a person is interested enough to look for it. I cant for the life of me recall the name, but one example that springs to mind is a first person shooter game, with quake3 or higher quality visuals crammed into 96KB of RAM. Fully texture mapped, sound, multiple levels, intro, etc., etc. It's not really my genre, but that's not the point either.

As for your challenge, while I understand your point you'd be pretty broke by now if you was paying out cash for everyone who could find examples to prove you wrong. Heck, there's even Dpaint for pc which meets your criteria, let alone some of the open source clones like 4P or gfx2.
I have absolutely no doubt I could put together a pc with the sorts of specs of my classic amiga that could do just as much, and run similar software, of a similar quality to my classic amiga.
Much like the amiga though it simply wouldnt be the mainstream type stuff that Joe Public would be used to reading about.

I love my a1200 and the software available, but things arent nearly as black and white as you, or those that try to claim a person needs something modern to be productive suggest.

Anyway, Ive made enough off topic comments now, so I'll (probably) leave this thread alone to continue on the original topic now :)

Last edited by fishy_fis on 20-May-2012 at 02:26 PM.

If 512 is too little ram theirs this model-


cotton-candy

@Kicko

On the subject of "living in the past"...

If you answer yes to any of the following question then you too are "living" in the past...

Q) Do you watch TV...

A) YES... then you are living in the past, TV despite a change to higher resolutions and slimmer hardware is still the same as it always has been... ie: a bunch of still images displayed quickly in sequence that fools the eye into believing it's seeing moving pictures... so you're living in the past...


Q) Do you use a phone...

A) YES.... then your living in the past. A phone even though your voice is transmitted as a digital signal these days still works on the same basic principal as it always has done ie: breaking down your voice and transmitting it as an electrical signal to the end user before converting it back into an audible sound again.... so you're living in the past...


Q) Do you use an electrical computer...

A) YES.... then your living in the past. Very simple this one, nothing has changed here at all, it's still just a bunch of "binary" electrical signals (well that part actually needs a longer explanation to do it justice) that control various electrical components... so you're living in the past...


And one last question just in case you answered NO to all of the above...

Q) Do you eat food...

A) YES.... then your living in the past. So far back in the past, since the dawn of mankind in fact as nothing has changed in all that time. You eat food, whether cooked or raw, whether you hunted for it yourself or bought it from a shop, you are doing something that is from so far back in the past that unless you stop doing it from this moment onwards you can never again claim you don't live in the past...

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Um.. If you want power for performance, isnt it far more cost effective to spedn 100 times the price, as in £4000, on a desktop supercomputer thats 500 times the power resources of a Raspberry Pi, and so per image processed, is 20% the price?

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The older and more respected a scientist is, the longer it takes to prove him wrong.

@fishy_fis

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote: @Franko but things arent nearly as black and white as you, or those that try to claim a person needs something modern to be productive suggest.

Never claimed things were black & white...

Life would be very dull & boring if it were that simple and we all agreed on everything we all said...

It's all about different views, opinions and perspectives to me, I mean if I agreed with everything said on these sites there'd be no point in me saying anything at all, as sating "I agree" all the time would be pretty boring and pointless...

Don't think there'd be much demand for a site where there's one post saying something followed by countless posts all saying "I agree"...

We'll there might be... but happily I haven't found that site yet...

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@Franko
"I agree" ;)

There's very few things in life that are clear cut black&white. Even Michael Jackson now has some green tinges to him :)

Last edited by fishy_fis on 20-May-2012 at 03:16 PM.

@Franko

Quote:

Franko wrote: @fishy_fis Quote: fishy_fis wrote: @Franko but things arent nearly as black and white as you, or those that try to claim a person needs something modern to be productive suggest. Never claimed things were black & white... Life would be very dull & boring if it were that simple and we all agreed on everything we all said... It's all about different views, opinions and perspectives to me, I mean if I agreed with everything said on these sites there'd be no point in me saying anything at all, as sating "I agree" all the time would be pretty boring and pointless... Don't think there'd be much demand for a site where there's one post saying something followed by countless posts all saying "I agree"... We'll there might be... but happily I haven't found that site yet...

Try the official mac site

Last edited by TiredofLife on 20-May-2012 at 04:23 PM.

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If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

@TiredofLife

Haha. Good stuff. I like that :)

I would like a Kickstarter project for a ARM based AROS system.
it may just be one of chinas ARM based mediaplayers.

50$ for a A9 cortex based system with 2GB RAM should be no problem.

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x86 aros powerhorseAresOne
AROS Broadway - get the most out of Imica and AresOne

So AROS run like an apps, so can it run on every similar hardware?
Could be run like an android apps one day?

Last edited by Seiya on 21-May-2012 at 11:36 AM.

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@TiredofLife

Quote:

TiredofLife wrote: @Franko Try the official mac site

I can't...

For some strange reason they banned my IP two days after I got my first Mac and sent them a wee message explaining why their products were so rubbish and how pompous & arrogant all their staff were in their stores...

Not sure if they didn't take my comments as constructive criticism as they were intended as I couldn't view their site to see the reply...

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Well all this talk of needing hundreds of megabytes of memory is again missing a monumental chance for Aros to shine.

All Aros needs is a good way to warn users that memory is low and not to run more apps. On subject of browsing, I had considered doing away with multiple tabs to conserve memory but memory handling is better.

I hate to say it, but I am with Franko on this, Aros should be able to run happily in 256mb which it can, but on the understanding that some modern features will struggle in low memory machines, just like people moaned that the Atom 3d chip was rubbish, but the fact is that it was ok for some 3d applications and not running the latest call of duty on, but it sold vast numbers of computers based on it.

If you want the best hardware for the job get it, nobody is stopping you, I just want people to see Amiga on Raspberry Pi, get a taste for it and move up to better hardware with Aros.

Last edited by clusteruk on 21-May-2012 at 09:25 AM.

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Amiga 1000, 3000D, Aros Nvidia PC, and an Aros powered Rasberry Pi owner and user.
http://www.imica.net