Hey look! I found just the article for Hyperion:

Migrating from Power Architecture to ARM.

@trans

eheh, before this thread becomes a copy of all others, I would like to ask people if they would agree if Hyperion would switch to ARM and dropping all support for PPC. As you know such a small company cannot do everything. So supporting both architectures is just not possible. Maybe dropping PPC in one go is another possibility.

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...comment removed...

Last edited by Darrin on 21-Jun-2012 at 07:54 PM.

@trans, startup-sequence.bat, ...
Doesn't anyone bother reading discussions about this topic before posting?

Moving to ARM would either require dropping all existing PPC (and possibly 68k) programs, or else it would require tons of money & time to write (or possibly buy) a PPC->ARM JIT compiler.

Trying to get all existing PPC programs recompiled for ARM would be a monumental task, and definitely impossible in some cases (as the developers and/or source code are unreachable).

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@ChrisH

I have to agree with Chris on that one. I don't see any purpose to jump to ARM architecture right now. PPC is ok don't worry.

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@Phantom

Indeed it is not time to jump to ARM. But it does not hurt to look to a switch in the future. So if it is possible to design OS4.2 or later to be ported to a different processor then the earlier you start to think about it the better.

Quote:

Phantom wrote: @ChrisH I have to agree with Chris on that one. I don't see any purpose to jump to ARM architecture right now. PPC is ok don't worry.

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@Spectre660

Sure. Just looking-around is free and make plans for the future it's something that a serious company have to do for the plain sailing of the platform.

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@ChrisH

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One byte at a time.

@Phantom

Quote:

I have to agree with Chris on that one. I don't see any purpose to jump to ARM architecture right now. PPC is ok don't worry.

Worry? I got well beyond worried many years ago. These days it's all disappointment. I will never buy an Amiga (X1000) b/c of the price. Besides, I want a system that has a HUGE user base. I'm not really interested on "hobbyists computing". But I want to use AmigaOS all the same b/c of all the systems I've used it remains the best overall, IMO.

@Spectre660

Quote:

Indeed it is not time to jump to ARM.

Not time? Time was three years ago! ARM chips are cheap. If people could by an Amiga for a couple hundred euros they be selling like hot cakes.

As it stands? A-Eon will be lucky if they sell just 10,000 X1000s.

so far ARM has nothing to offer for desktop, when compared to PPC. Better stay on PPC.

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@KimmoK

A15 is probably a good deal faster than PA6T, at a fraction of the cost. They're becoming available, but even an A9 would be a good match...

Next year Applied Micro's 3 GHz 64 bit ARM server chip arrives...

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@trans

Quote:

If people could by an Amiga for a couple hundred euros they be selling like hot cakes.

Maybe netbook from Hyperion (if ever released) will satisfy such demand.

Quote:

Time was three years ago!

Without doubt. However, I would rather see port to x86 - architecture much better suited to desktop/laptop usage.

@trans


Have alook at this post as to an estimated 1996 cost to Port AmigaOS 3.1 from 68k to PowerPC in two years.
Basic Wage bill alone would have been at least 3 Million US$.
Any one have easy money for a 2012-14 try at OS4.1 PowerPC to ARM or X86 or OS3.1 68k to ARM or X86?



http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33564&forum=25&start=120&viewmode=flat&order=0#610305


Quote:

trans wrote: @Spectre660 Quote: Indeed it is not time to jump to ARM. Not time? Time was three years ago! ARM chips are cheap. If people could by an Amiga for a couple hundred euros they be selling like hot cakes. As it stands? A-Eon will be lucky if they sell just 10,000 X1000s.

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@trans

If you want a system with HUGE user base, then noone stops you from joining Windoze user base. Amiga user base was HUGE in the 90s, now unfortunately it's not, although I'm really confident about the situation.

Like it or not, Amiga is a hobbyist computer nowadays, and in my opinion, will not gonna change soon.

Just have fun with your Amigas.

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@trans

The trouble is that simply porting the OS to ARM is not going to magically give you cheap, affordable computers. The processor chip is not the major component of the price - it's the engineering of the motherboard.

If there were an ARM desktop machine on the market (now) and fully documented, then it would be worthwhile asking for a port to the new technology, but there isn't, and no one is going to create one for our micro-sized user base.

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Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@tonyw

You bring up a good point, there is nothing equivalent in the ARM space to the 460EX just yet. ARM does not have the performance available from the PPC line. It does offer a much higher performance per $ relative to the current CPU's for the Amiga systems. Of course that is a view of the market from right now.

What becomes interesting about ARM is the amount of money and energy companies are putting in to it. I estimate that there is between 2 and 4 billion being spent on ARM development, including 64bit support. I have not looked in to it but I seriously doubt that the PPC line is seeing that level of investment.

In my opinion, the other great thing about the ARM for the Amiga is the fact it's lower performance. The fact that it is not possible to "throw hardware at it" to make "it" faster raises the value of an efficient OS.

Bottom line is we need cheaper hardware or a more valuable OS...

Cheers,
Bill "tekmage" Borsari

PS I'm sure if we asked Jens nice enough he could build us a cheap ARM based mobo :)

@trans

I noticed this:

It is worth noting early on that the PPC architecture is natively big endian, while ARM is natively little endian. It is important to bear this in mind when reading the documentation of the two architectures since bytes within words and also bits within bytes are enumerated in opposite senses.

Seems that it would be about the same level of effort to port to x86 as to ARM.....

Scott

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@trans Quote:

I will never buy an Amiga (X1000) b/c of the price.

I continue to be amazed that to use AmigaOS4 some people seem to think they are *expected* to buy an X1000. That is like thinking everyone must buy an A3000 or A4000 when they came out (while ignoring the A500 & A1200).

The X1000 is *supposed* to be expensive! That's why we have the Sam460 & Sam440 (and soon hopefully a Netbook too).

Quote:

A-Eon will be lucky if they sell just 10,000 X1000s.

And? I think Trevor was always clear that he always expected to sell a limited number of them, due to the price. The X1000 was never meant to be a mass-market machine, it was supposed to be a top-end (expensive) machine. If you can afford & justify buying one, then great, but if you can't then so what? The existance of the X1000 doesn't prevent you getting a Sam460 or whatever (and presumably there are even second-hand machines if you look carefully).

Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Jun-2012 at 12:54 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Jun-2012 at 12:45 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Jun-2012 at 12:45 PM.

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I love using Amiga OS4.1 on my A1-X1000 & Sam440
Don't forget the official support forum for OS4!

@tonyw Quote:

The trouble is that simply porting the OS to ARM is not going to magically give you cheap, affordable computers. The processor chip is not the major component of the price - it's the engineering of the motherboard. If there were an ARM desktop machine on the market (now) and fully documented, then it would be worthwhile asking for a port to the new technology, but there isn't, and no one is going to create one for our micro-sized user base.

Errr, yes there are ARM desktop machines available (any time) now:
http://apc.io/about/
(800MHZ, 512MB, 3D graphics from a Radeon chip, HDMI+VGA output, audio out, ethernet, motherboard is compatible with Mini-ITX standard. Just lacks SATA & PCI-Express, but it already has most stuff built-in.)

Not forgetting (the not so desktop-like) :
http://www.raspberrypi.org/

Whether these motherboards are the start of a new market segment, or disappear in a few years, is anyone's guess. But with even Windows 8 running on ARM, the chances have to be improving.

Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Jun-2012 at 12:59 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 23-Jun-2012 at 12:58 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I love using Amiga OS4.1 on my A1-X1000 & Sam440
Don't forget the official support forum for OS4!