@thinkchip

Quote:

thinkchip wrote: @Franko I think if you buy something you should get information about updates, too. That's something we don't get much.

Too be honest I have no idea why it's really only in the computer & computer hardware market the folk have accepted these types of selling practices to creep in and for the most part they have come to believe it's acceptable and there is nothing "legally" they can do about it...

Like I say I'm not sure about other parts of the world but here in the UK we have very good consumer protection laws that benefit the buyer, sadly though a lot of folk don't seem to realise this and blindly accept the word of the big multinationals like Microsoft, Apple Dell, Intel etc... and quite often think they have no protection when it comes to being sold goods that are "Not Fit For Purpose"...

Guess for some strange reason it's become accepted and common practice for most and although at least in the UK there are laws to protect the buyer from this but like I say before buying anything it pays to do your homework and ask all relevant questions first to protect yourself and the seller & prevent any hassle in the first place...

It's only common sense really...

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@Spirantho

Quote:

Spirantho wrote: There's no lack of skill in the Amiga world, it's the lack of time to do it on top of a day job. Giving the coder money means he doesn't need a day job. Edit: I'd imagine you should be looking at about £2000-£3000 for a BlizzardPPC SCSI driver, if you can find someone willing to work for that little.

No time to write driver ok. How much for allocated time per hour per day to write driver.

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The Machine: Bride Of The Pin•Bot by Williams Electronics

Here an idea maybe a-eon should say drivers will be released freely in three to four years times as that is how long it might of taken to get the drives to this point with out the injection of cash, that way people can decide weather it was worth it to not.

Trevor
"We are just forutnate that we still have talented developers around who are willing and able to do the work."

I think we are also very forutnate to have an Amiga nut who when hears it can't be done, refuses to give up.

It's odd also how some think amigakit and a-eon are out to make a quick buck, i very much doubt they ever expect to get all the money back from x1000 development so please give them break, if you really don't like it then Aros is a fine free os.

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AmigaNG, YouTube, Software

@Amiga4000

I thought that the 3D driver was going to be released some time soon, nobody said it would only be available with OS4.2! I doubt OS4.2 will be released any time this year so that's a hell of a wait

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SAM 460 with 2GB or RAM, 1000GB HD, 4 port SATA, DVDRW drive and Radeon HD 4650 GFX card.

no news.

IIRC, I've paid for CyberGraphix4.1 drivers separately for my CV64-3D, etc...

Business as usual. Not everything can be free. There are people who need to pay for their living and need to do work to earn money. With just hobby R&D our progress is way too slow and (IMHO) it's nice to see some progress during my lifetime.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
// "priest" is just the RED goaul in me
// The multicolor AmigaFUTURE IS NOW !!

@KimmoK

Quote:

... it's nice to see some progress during my lifetime...

Either the developers have to work harder and faster or you change your lifestyle to a more quiet pace.

To revert to the topic:
I think it is very OK for Trevor c.s. to charge for some specifically developed piece of software. As far as I can fathom, writing a driver for a gfx card is by no means a trivial undertaking. In stead of wailing we should be glad we have these kind of enterprising individuals like Trevor, Hans, the fellows behind ACube and lots of others, who are busy for OUR collective hobby!

OldFart

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As long as I don't express my age in terms of 'years'
and my wealth not in terms of 'money',
I can still pass for rich young man...

Quote:

elwood wrote: @All When you purchase a graphic card in a shop, you also pay for the driver for Windows/MacOS.

no no.
if you purchase a graphic card with or without hardware, the price is the same.
Driver inlcuded are the same driver that you can download from hardware vendor.
2D and 3D driver..

Here, on Amiga you have to pay for 2D driver only.

And you continue to say: "we are only enthuiast, this is only an hobby for us".

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@Seiya

Pay for drivers?

"Registered AmigaONE X1000 "First Contact" customers will be able download driver updates free of charge from the A-EON Technology website."

TrevorD

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AmigaONE X1000 "The real McCoy"

(Posted from Timberwolf Beta on the AmigONE X1000)

@TrevorDick

I think the confusion is because the "Not-Eon" customers are confused what they can expect regarding driver-support in the future and what will be part of AOS 4.2. (without extra-fees)

@elwood

Quote:

When you purchase a graphic card in a shop, you also pay for the driver for Windows/MacOS. Amiga companies tried very hard not to make you pay AmigaOS drivers. Now it's just not possible anymore. Never forget there is nothing free in this world. There is no reason to react...

Btw do you happen to know (since you are ACube support) why ACube opted to not have drivers included with a SAM platform?

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Free IRC client for Amiga: www.amirc.org

@trans

I see the problem as follow

It is a hard task for the vendor to support only windows/mac, mac should be OK because we know the hardware, but the vendor must ensure their hardware works well with so many different motherboard/chipset/CPU. For example, Asus provides motherboard with an army of different tests with different memory vendors, of CPUs and mix of them.

Then, some vendors provide their api and some opensource things in order for drivers to be available on linux. Unfortunately, this brings some more work for the vendor, because main devs on linux parts needs assistance on some points because "things doesn't works as they should, while the main dev has just followed the API". Then the vendor must find why and provide a fix or a workaround.

Now, if vendors should support niche markets like Amiga, Atari, or whatever "non standard" like, well, riscos, and many other OSes, and their particularities, it turns that the vendor has "opened" his platform, and this brings more and more work to support some hundreds of machine. So, just, the vendor doesn't do any affort at all, it's the crysis. They provide this service with ease, if the compagny that needs those drivers is able to bring some money on the desk, and fill a "gold member status" or whatever else the means "you paid us to have API and help, and we allocated 1 engineers for this task for half a year". Let's just say 1 engineers costs around 4k€/month salary charges included, they will charge you 8k€/month to provide that engineer as support , so if you need support, they will charge you 8k€*1 enginner*6months= 48 k€
At this price, you will have all the drivers you need, and all the support you could dream about....

Of course, it we were talking about 100.000 machines, we would have some sort a support for free, and special engineer payed support if we had to go deeply into the "thing".

I was myself working on a Bluetooth stack for morphos for quiet some time, this is a lot of work, there exists a lot of chips with integrated BT, all those have their proper internal API, I found one the vendor could provide me an API and some sort of help for free, but at some point the vendor (some random chineese compagny) told me it is too many work for them to debug the chip in order to just sell some hundred of licence and that they cannot help me anymore (all those questions were regarding bugs on internal timeline the vendor fixed in their win/mac drivers).
This represent so far some 50 hours of coding, not couting the time spent with the vendor nor the time spent to find a suitable vendor..... and would require some more 200 hours to have a minimal BT stack running (i'm not familiar bith BT stack, not is coding my main job anymore).

How could I give those drivers for free, when it costs me so many hours to bring something minimal to life? Ok there's the thing that tells me "you helped the platform", but well, in 250hours of work, I just could to some things with my family, or do another project that brings me more money....

Not everyone has enough free time to work for free eternaly.

So at some point, it is anoying paying for drivers.....life is hard;) But it's the way it got to be!

Last edited by DC_Edge on 25-Jun-2012 at 11:41 AM.

@

Anyone remember the Elbox Spider USB Card ?.

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Sam460ex 1.15Ghz, 2GB.Radeon HD6670 . Apex TM-302-3 Case

@DC_Edge

Quote:

DC_Edge wrote: So at some point, it is anoying paying for drivers.....life is hard;) But it's the way it got to be!

While I don't quite agree with your statement of "that's the way it's got to be" I do see your point that for some "developers" that sure they may like to be rewarded monetarily for their efforts but for most it's a hobby and not everyone who writes Amiga stuff doeas so in order to get paid for it...

I myself would never think of asking for money for any Amiga software I had written as I do it for my own use and enjoyment...

Perhaps the answer really should be encouraging more folk into actually learning to code and write stuff for the Amiga, which to me is one of the best and most enjoyable things I do on the Amiga instead of forever complaining that there is no new software/ drivers etc...

The Amiga is not a platform any longer that someone should expect to make much (if any) money from when writing software and if money is your motive to write something then the Amiga sure as heck aint the market to be in...

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@Franko

Those that are blessing the platform with free software should be applauded, but if you want more developers, you cant really count on everyone with coding skills
to make drivers which takes xxx manhours for no pay.
If its seem viable to actually make a quid or 1000 on developing something on Amiga
then you would probarly see more people code/support.

If you want drivers to be provided for free on hobby basis, then you have to accept the constraints that "forces" like long wait time.
If you are hellbent on having everything for free, then you dont have to use said driver, or start a bounty for driver development....OR hope "someone" will start making those drivers for free....whoever and whenever that happens...

Just to repeat; those that develop for free should ofcourse be applauded, but a buissniss plan cant be based on that.

Last edited by Overflow on 25-Jun-2012 at 11:58 AM.

@Franko

Quote:

Perhaps the answer really should be encouraging more folk into actually learning to code and write stuff for the Amiga, which to me is one of the best and most enjoyable things I do on the Amiga instead of forever complaining that there is no new software/ drivers etc...

And write it in the same language as the rest of the OS and support software

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Amiga 1000, 3000D, Aros Nvidia PC, and an Aros powered Rasberry Pi owner and user.
http://www.imica.net

@itix
It seems that Acube doesn't know nothing of this deal, if AEON had talks with Acube for a partnership, there will be no problems for them to support and offer these drivers maybe for free to their customers.

@all
sorry but I don't get the whole story of "pay for drivers", when I pay for something I assume that this something is completely supported in every aspect of its function. It seems that this equation doesn't work for amigaos 4, what have the users stamped on their faces? Amiga os4 users must be more demanding and less prone.

Last edited by ArcadeHeart on 25-Jun-2012 at 12:05 PM.

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote: And write it in the same language as the rest of the OS and support software

Yup... and that of course is M68k Assembly language for the vast majority of us...

EDIT: a wee typo...

Last edited by Franko on 25-Jun-2012 at 12:14 PM.

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Paying for drivers should not be an issue. It should be part of the cost of the hardware when purchased. Computer Hardware is pretty much useless without the propper software.

My only iussue on the Amiga side of things is that the Hardware should only be released when functional, completely usable drivers are ready. Sure you have somethiung that kind of works when unfinished drivers are included with new hardware but the frustration that follows and the wait for mature drivers that fully utilize the Hardware's Advertised abilities is not worth the price.

This would reduce the many complaints I see about customers (and yes, that is what we are when we buy Amiga hardware) in many forums.

Drewlio77

Last edited by Drewlio77 on 25-Jun-2012 at 12:25 PM.
Last edited by Drewlio77 on 25-Jun-2012 at 12:24 PM.

@Franko

Perhaps you should do what you are asking others to do, and show how well it can be done in M68k assembler. I leave it to you to nominate a driver, perhaps say an NVidia driver for for 68k based Amiga's with PCI slots. I will even get you the full source code for the Aros version for you to port.

Of course ensure it is portable to the latest incarnation of AmigaOS4 as that would be popular and I would pay for the driver, say £50

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Amiga 1000, 3000D, Aros Nvidia PC, and an Aros powered Rasberry Pi owner and user.
http://www.imica.net

Why is it that people think that cards designed for Windows should work on Amiga and the software should be free, the windows drivers are free, rightly so, but not on a small platform that is offering support for the same cards.

I have paid for graphics drivers to be written and people took my drivers and used them on the hardware they purchased cheaper off the internet. So where is the money for the driver development. Happily I did that project expecting nothing, but it made me realise I cannot afford to do it again, and yet here we are again with the Raspberry Pi and people want it native and want it for free. So this time, I am doing a more advanced hybrid system with no native drivers unless they can be funded.

Just be grateful the community has Trevor, who is committed to AmigaOS with money to support it so you can all get it for free.

Last edited by clusteruk on 25-Jun-2012 at 12:37 PM.

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Amiga 1000, 3000D, Aros Nvidia PC, and an Aros powered Rasberry Pi owner and user.
http://www.imica.net