@Nameless

I said "remind" and not they are the same. I meant a company buying name and past without product and hoping to make money with it without investing much. They have no products either, they want others to give them the money for developing their software because of nostalgic reasons. I will personally not donate for that, only for amiga-related projects I am convinced of.

@OlafS25

The difference I would say, at least in my opinion, is Cinemaware does have a product. They have the entire back catalog of Cinemaware games, as well as ports (or emulated versions, or however they work) for various platforms.

I can understand some similarities, especially regarding nostalgia. But it's not like they are slapping 'cinemaware' labels on random pieces of shovel-ware, then saying they are official 'cinemaware' games. Although I do recall the 2nd (or 3rd) reincarnation of cinemaware trying that years ago, with some offshoot label.

Biggest difference (again, to me) is that the nostalgia for Cinemaware isn't exclusively an Amiga nostalgia. It's for the games themselves. I personally couldn't care what platform they run on, so long as I own one of those platforms and the gameplay is the same or extremely close to the originals -- and for updated ports, some extra features. If they eventually come out with new titles, I'd want to see similar gameplay and 'cinema' genres covered -- basically a continuation of what Cinemaware would have been, if they survived.

@Nameless

Quote:

For those who feel Cinemaware should port to the Amiga... my question would be, why?

For those who feel amigans should back up Cinemaware with their money... my question would be, why?

Simple analogy, really.

Quote:

recedent wrote: @Nameless Quote: For those who feel Cinemaware should port to the Amiga... my question would be, why? For those who feel amigans should back up Cinemaware with their money... my question would be, why? Simple analogy, really.

yes very basic analogy indeed

AmigaOS is still around and it should be supported by Cinemaware of all companies IMHO

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@recedent

The main reason to support them is if you want Wings on one of the platforms they are porting to. If you solely use an Amiga (or whatever variant you choose), then you may not wish to support them.

But you are right, if you run an Amiga only, then you probably wouldn't be that interested. I expect the vast majority of former amiga users are running some other platform by now, however.

So I'm not sure anyone is saying amigans should back up Cinemaware, as there are barely any 'amigans' left. People who enjoyed Cinemaware games are those who would support them.

As to why post it here then, it's because about 99.9% of former Amiga people either use a different platform as their main computer now, or at the least, have access to other systems.

Again, if someone can post a viable economic reason for them to port to AOS4, then maybe they will listen. Simply saying you won't support them unless they port to an Amiga (whatever that is defined as nowadays), is of course your prerogative. But logically there is no reason for them to port to a system with barely any users.

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@OlafS25

Quote:

I said "remind" and not they are the same. I meant a company buying name and past without product and hoping to make money with it without investing much. They have no products either, they want others to give them the money for developing their software because of nostalgic reasons. I will personally not donate for that, only for amiga-related projects I am convinced of.

well they did develop great games and I do hope remakes will be great. Would love to se AROS / AOS4 / MOS versions of games, but we could beg and prepay for it after Windows / PS3 / whatever versions make enough momey, even we do deserve the remake.

To differ it from C=USA, they will have my support, because they seem to be Cineware, not just name Licencee that would pretend to have their own games based on some one elses open source work for 2x price and without any support. Hope they will do as serious company, even North and South remake and new Syndicate FPS and Alien Breed were complete failures, as well as Civ5 is console game. But there is an XCom remake on the way ...

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Roots Taking Over The World

@ExiE

Quote:

You guys miss the point. Todays Cinemaware have nothing to do with company we used to love and played their games. Yes they have rights to brand, games etc and they are trying to use the old Amiga fame, but thats all.

Not 1 person from the old team? Just like C=USA? Who will do the remakes?
Its like Defender of Crown remakes were mostly awful ...

Would love to see Wings, Lords of Rising Sun, It came from desert same or similar in gameplay with enhanced gfx and music


@Franko

Quote:

I've gotta agree with what's being said by most on Amiga.org, that it's a bit of a cheek for Cinemaware to ask Amiga users to contribute towards a Mac/PC game when they have no desire to make anything for the Amiga.

Because they don`t know Amiga(Oses) exist.
If we could conditon Kickstarter donation with Amiga version, that would do the magic (and donate some hardware and have Amigans there in Cineware ...)

If its kickstarter ... well they just downgraded themselves
(cant see A.org post due to ban that will lift in about week)

Last edited by vox on 11-Aug-2012 at 09:21 PM.

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AF 2012, Hollywood Designer 5, AmigaOS 3.5,4.0 and 4.1 registered user, user of Linux Mint 13
Roots Taking Over The World

@Nameless

I'm not saying they shoud make an Amiga-ish version or nothing. Let them finish their work on iOS/Android/Windows/Mac and then sit and calculate - what is Amiga-ish version worth of? Then set up a Kickstarter project (not 300k $ of course) and see how many of us are interested/if it's worth the hassle. Then we'll talk.

@vox

Quote:

You guys miss the point. Todays Cinemaware have nothing to do with company we used to love and played their games. Yes they have rights to brand, games etc and they are trying to use the old Amiga fame, but thats all. Not 1 person from the old team? Just like C=USA? Who will do the remakes? Its like Defender of Crown remakes were mostly awful ...

The team doing the remake is:

Raylight Games of Naples, Italy (the experienced developer behind Wings for Game Boy Advance, as well as Amiga classics Speedball 2 and Wing Commander: Prophecy for GBA!) will have the honor of taking on this project under the production leadership and coordination of Cinemaware.

In addition, Ken Melville, one of the original writers of and composer for the classic game, will also be involved in the production and will help us design & write new content for the project if we are able to achieve our minimum goal!

So there is some connection to the original Wings. It isn't the same design team, but it's not the same as CUSA.


An Amiga kickstarter would be one way to approach it. I'm not up to date with exact numbers of users, but some simple calculations can tell if it's even remotely possible.

Let's say approx. 1000 AOS 4 users? 1000 MorphOS users?

Then dwindle that down by the percentage of users who even have hardware capable of running a semi-modern game. G3/G4s on the MorphOS side would probably be ruled out there, so not enough MorphOS people left to make sense.

For AOS people, would the Sam boards be powerful enough? Let's assume they are. So 1000 users... let's say 30% are willing to buy/donate.

Game is $15. That results in 300 customers, $4500 taken in.

How can they even hire a developer to do a port? Assuming there are any developers? Unless Hyperion agrees to port basically free of charge, I don't see how it's feasible.

@Nameless

They could always propose a bounty to free the source code, so that a free developer could do a port (if it only is possible). This way they get the bounty money, and make additional profit on reselling the PC/Mac version just for the needed data files.

@recedent

So they would release the source code to a game they just paid a professional team to work on, to possibly make about $5000? And that number may be generous.

I won't say it's completely impossible. I mean, say if they ported to AROS, AOS4 and MorphOS... and somehow even found a free/cheap developer to do that.

And then managed to find 1000-2000 users out of that group willing to pay around $50 each. But that would seem very very unlikely to me. I expect the total revenue for a project like that would be more like $1000-$3000. For a company, I don't see how it's worth it. And to top it off, give away their source code.

Last edited by Nameless on 11-Aug-2012 at 09:55 PM.
Last edited by Nameless on 11-Aug-2012 at 09:52 PM.

@Nameless

Quote:

Nameless wrote: @Franko For those who feel Cinemaware should port to the Amiga... my question would be, why? Keep in mind companies have a goal of making some money.

Thanks for the "business lesson" but rest assured it wasn't needed...

Simple fact remains it's a bit of a cheek for Cinemaware to post a link on Amiga.org (thankfully they didn't do it here) asking people for money to help them make money and not even make a product for those they went there to ask for money from...

I'm not even sure which incarnation of Cinemaware this lot are but either way who cares when they have made it clear they will not be support the Amiga in any way, shape or form...

Not sure about you but it just doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to me to financially support Kickstarter projects that don't offer me anything in return...

You may find that odd,but hey, that's why I don't need business lessons...

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@Franko

I never said it was odd for those who solely (or primarily) use Amigas to not be interested in them. In fact, I already stated above that the small group of remaining amiga people probably wouldn't be interested in supporting them.

But I see nothing wrong with them posting on Amiga forums, as most former Cinemaware customers used that platform at the time.

As for business lessons... I'm not entirely sure you do understand. How can Cinemaware possibly make any money porting their games to the Amiga platform? The only suggestion so far was for them to give away their source code (which they just paid a professional team for), hoping to find a free developer, and then raking in the cash... which won't be very much cash.

So it really does come down to a business decision. Those who say they should port to AOS... can you come up with a plan where they make any actual money?

@Nameless

Quote:

Nameless wrote: @Franko As for business lessons... I'm not entirely sure you do understand. How can Cinemaware possibly make any money porting their games to the Amiga platform?

Do you make it a habit of "conveniently" missing the point...

I assure you mate when it comes to business decisions and making money I sure as hell understand and don't need any lessons on that score. That's one of the reasons why since I retired in 1999 that I still can live very comfortably off the money I made from work/ business and investments...

I have never claimed here that Cinemaware were/ are going to make any money from the Amiga side of things...

All I have been doing is pointing out that it would be very odd for people to use their hard earned cash to support a company that produces nothing for them, now what's so hard to understand about that !!!

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@Nameless

Aros runs on PI, Aros runs on 68k hardware, Aros runs on X86, Aros runs on PPC and on Android/Arm, based on Linux and in Emulation (UAE). How about that? And new content would help also Aros to get more distributed. How about that? And to support most of the platforms you just have to write one game and compile it for the different platforms. Otherwise you have to program it for every single platform. How about that? Does that sound like a plan?

@Franko

I guess I misunderstood your point. I assumed you were being constructive and wanted Cinemaware to port to the Amiga platform. If so, I was wondering how you thought they could do so and make any money in the process.

So... umm... you simply dislike the fact they posted in an Amiga forum? Even though their games used to run primarily on Amigas and many former Amiga people read these forums and remember them fondly? And the vast majority will own platforms they are developing on (iOS, Android, Windows)?

I don't get why some here feel slighted that a company posted in an Amiga forum -- especially if these people already know that cinemaware can't make any money porting to the amiga platform.

@OlafS25

Aros, especially for PI, would be one possibility. The only issue there is, it's not exactly in wide distribution yet on Pi, or very stable.

Aros still android hosted on Pi, right? If so, people would just run the android version of Wings.

If Aros was native for Pi... and they got enough users, then possibly.

Anyone know a rough estimate of Aros users out there? Aros, to me, would have a better chance of a port than AOS or MorphOS. Downside is, most Aros people are probably using X86. And I expect very few are using it exclusively. Wings for Windows will already be X86 and certainly have a vastly larger userbase.

To get port, you sort of need Aros to be used exclusively on a hardware platform without mainstream operating systems. Pi, again, could be an option, but I don't think just yet. You'd need probably at least 10K users at a minimum.

Edit: And also just realized... is Pi even powerful enough? If I remember right, it has the power of about a Pentium III, with Xbox graphics. If the game is even remotely semi-modern, the Pi may be too wimpy to run it, regardless of OS used.

Which also brings up another issue. What percentage of current Amiga systems has the horsepower to even run a modern game?

Last edited by Nameless on 11-Aug-2012 at 11:52 PM.
Last edited by Nameless on 11-Aug-2012 at 11:51 PM.

@Nameless

The existing community is strongly (sometimes a little too emotional ) supporting the existing platforms. Of course most use PCs or Android devices but if most of us spend hard-earned money they want to support the existing base and not just have nostalgia. Without direct connection to the existing platforms (68k, Aros, MorphOS or AOS) I see no big chance to win many supporter.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 12-Aug-2012 at 12:01 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 12-Aug-2012 at 12:00 AM.

@recedent

Quote:

They could always propose a bounty to free the source code, so that a free developer could do a port (if it only is possible). This way they get the bounty money, and make additional profit on reselling the PC/Mac version just for the needed data files.

This is possible, but after all commercial value is sucked out (e.g. Quake, Duke ... etc.)

Quote:

hmmm I am not sure if you understand. It reminds of CUSA making money with nostalgia posting on different amiga sites and at the same time saying that all existing NG OSs are toys

Understand the parallel, but retro mania is general. Lets see how they do they job anyway, and real Amiga community is not a place to cry for non Amigan product, since we all do play Cineware games at least in UAE.

I find it better for new Win games / PS3 generation to get some gameplay back, and yes, retro forums would be the target. Just like Linux forums would be real C-USA target if they used Linux to lower the system prices and really supported open source and GPL GNU development.

However, lets give CIneware a shot - they will do better job then past role of remakes.
Or they already did it? (just for GBA and PS)
http://www.cinemaware.com/games/

Quote:

Releases Robin Hood: Defender of the Crown (2003, PS2, Xbox, Windows) Defender of the Crown (GBA) The Three Stooges (GBA, PlayStation) Wings (2003, GBA) Defender of the Crown: Digitally Remastered Edition (Windows, Macintosh) The Three Stooges: Digitally Remastered Edition (2002, Windows, Mac) Wings: Digitally Remastered Edition (postponed, Windows, Mac) Lords of the Rising Sun: Digitally Remastered Edition (postponed, Windows, Mac)

Last edited by vox on 11-Aug-2012 at 11:57 PM.

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Roots Taking Over The World

@Nameless

You (or Cinemaware) could talk to Pascal (the creator of aeros, the Linux/Aros combi that is also used for PI. I think Pascal is at the moment adapting/improving it for PI.

the website: http://www.aeros-os.org/

Regarding number of users that is difficult to say the last number was 5000 downloads of Icaros/AspireOS, then I have at least 1000 downloads of my 68k distributions, there were already a couple of hundred downloads of aeros and there is Broadway. Of course compared to millions of PCs the numbers are still not huge but it is rising and there is support for modern hardware. The numbers are already a couple of weeks old so they are certainly higher now. There are estimates that the existing amiga-community (all camps including emulation) are about 8000-10000 people so Aros is pretty good covering the community. The next step is to have innovations (combi with Linux, PI and others) to get outside.

What hardware do these games expect? Every PC has 2-3 GHz and at least 1 GB Ram and 3D. What are requirements?

I have a old PC with 2.4 GHz and 1 GB and a new one with 3.4 GHz and 4 GB. Not enough?

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