Brilliance has some great animation and painting features too, how well does that run under AmigaOS 4.1?

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 21-Sep-2012 at 08:46 PM.

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@DiscreetFX

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Brilliance has some great animation and painting features too, how well does that run under AmigaOS 4.1?

Yes, it truly does. Unfortunately, Brilliance, from what I recall, obtained much of its power from the fact that it was almost completely written in assembly language. As such, at least the last time I tried it, it doesn't even begin to pretend to work in OS4. It hits the hardware directly and continually.

Nice thought though.....

Scott

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@scabit and ddni

To prevent the crash I found that the only relevent factors were:

In GUI prefs: Planar on RTG enabled (leaving compositing on is fine)

In Compatibility prefs: Add DPaint and dpcpublit.library to the list of disabled applications (no-JIT)

Select one of the 640x480 fakenative p96 modes such as 21000 or 29000 (some other modes might work)

Here I still have the issue of the black buttons in the popup requesters but I can see what they say by clicking on them and moving the mouse away before releasing it.

The palette editor doesn't show all the colors as it should.

If I find a way to make it render those colors properly I'll let you know.

All the tools on the right and color cycling worked

I haven't tried all the items in the menus but at least it loads and quits without DSI using the settings above.

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@AlexC

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The palette editor doesn't show all the colors as it should.

Nor will Brilliance.

I've read a number of places that you need to promote the palette to a 256 color screen or you have no chance of it getting updated. In short, OS4 mode promotion (much like using HAM modes for VistaPro) doesn't have this option.
ModePro does.
If it works at all like Brilliance, you can establish one screen for the picture, a different one for the palette, place them where you want on screen and force a palette change to deal with unreadable text. For that matter you can change font as well.

Hmm..just found this which applies to DPaint V only. I have no way to test this for accuracy.

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Because the Palette & Range requestors are actually HAM mini-screens graphic cards have problems.

If that's the case then you would need to establish a HAM screen for the palette of DPaintV, as opposed to a 256 color screen.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 22-Sep-2012 at 02:34 PM.

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@number6

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If that's the case then you would need to establish a HAM screen for the palette of DPaintV, as opposed to a 256 color screen.

There's a problem there. To emulate HAM it would need a 15-bit or 24-bit mode, but those modes have no pallette. Since HAM uses a palette. I guess HAM is kind of like a hybrid high/true colour palette mode.

Maybe with advanced 3d drivers this can be realised along with copper emulation. But as it stands the VGA based hardware even with all the 3d bells and whistles including a blitter is still not enough to emulate the AGA chipset!

In theory it could render a HAM palette mode or a copper list 60 times a second or whatever the frame rate is using CPU or GPU blitter. But it's still a bit crass to doing it properly in hardware. Even though it's likely low res will have be emulated using doubling from now on with cards that only do VGA size and up.

@Hypex

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Even though it's likely low res will have be emulated using doubling from now on with cards that only do VGA size and up.

I guess you mean through s/w?

Because only Radeon R100 and R200 can do scan doubling, not the H/D cards.
We discovered that easily by changing the 640x200 programs to 320x200, changing horizontal size to 640 and enabling autoscroll. No one could do this on the H/D cards.

#6

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@Hypex

I have a better idea convert into a p96pip overlay
because if your going to upscale a 320x200 to 800x600 it will eat a lots of CPU power.
YUV format most likely as hard as converting it to a rgb 16bit or a 32bit format.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 22-Sep-2012 at 03:20 PM.

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@AlexC

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In Compatibility prefs: Add DPaint and dpcpublit.library to the list of disabled applications (no-JIT)

Interesting....I do not have to do this on my micro A1. I wonder why? Is this necessary for both the X1000 and the AmigaOne XE you have?

I hope this works for everyone having problems with getting it to work on the X1000.

Scott

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@scabit

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I run Dpaint 5.2, use Amiga-N to go to workbench, and open prefs/screens. The "insert open screen" button is not available - - it is not selectable. How exactly is Dpaint opening screens - is it going around Intuition somehow?

Okay, I need to correct myself here. It is not that Dpaint does not open screens through intuition...what i missed was the fact that it opens unnamed screens. The screen name is "", so it is not seen by the OS4.1 mode promotion tools, and I had already tricked screens named "" to open standard 640x480 256 bit P96 modes using Modepro.
I figured this out using Snoopy - which showed me Modepro parsing all my screen name database until it got to "No Name", at which time it registered success when DPaint was run.
So yes, if you have not lalready set up VistaPro 3.05 on your AmigaOne and use Modepro with the settings enabled to ask you about all new screens, you can intercept DeluxePaint screen modes and set them as you wish with ModePro.

Oh, why is Snoopy giving me an ISI every time I start it...anyone else have this problem? I have literally EVERYTHING enabled to log in it except possibly one or two timer events.

Scott

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@scabit

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So yes, if you have not lalready set up VistaPro 3.05 on your AmigaOne and use Modepro with the settings enabled to ask you about all new screens, you can intercept DeluxePaint screen modes and set them as you wish with ModePro.

And if you have already set up VistaPro's unnamed screen, you can just double click on the ModePro VistaPro unnamed screen to make it inactive temporarily. It should become "ghosted". I believe that = not being configured in the first place. Then, when done with DPaint, you can double click the VistaPro unnamed screen to make it active again.

#6

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@number6

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if you have already set up VistaPro's unnamed screen, you can just double click on the ModePro VistaPro unnamed screen to make it inactive temporarily. It should become "ghosted".

Wow, that's good to know! Some day I may read the guides or docs for some of these programs. But not likely any time soon!

Scott

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@scabit

On the X1000 I was getting crashes until I blacklisted these two but it could be that only one of them needs blacklisting. I saw both in the GR stack trace so they both got the treatment

I'll have to check on the XE but it shouldn't make a difference if it's only a JIT issue as Petunia would be the same version on both machines.

As for your Snoopy crash, if you have the latest from OS4Depot, my guess is that either something could be corrupted in your settings file, it's the first thing Snoopy loads and it would try to display a warning requester if no prefs or an old version is found, or it could be that you have something else patching some DOS/Exec function(s) and when Snoopy tries to patch the function(s) it hits something unexpected.

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@AlexC

Experimenting with mode promotion is difficult enough, but those of us who do could use a few answers from a setting/conflict pov.

Example 1:

SYS:devs/monitors/Radeon (for our R7000) has a tooltype:
FAKENATIVEMODES=(option for "yes" or "no"

Yet we choose fakenativemodes every day with ModePro regardless of the setting.
Specifically then, what does that setting in monitor do? Does anything about that setting affect/override settings made through ModePro?

Example 2:

SYS:prefs/GUI (tab controls) has a checkbox for "mode promotion"

Same question as above, since obviously ModePro has worked for us regardless of whether this box is checked or not.

Example 3:

More of an observation about which setting is the active one concerning "planar screens on RTG". By simply unchecking that box in SYS:prefs/GUI (tab controls), and instead checking "force planar" (in ModePro) for the VistaPro screens we have working properly...
VistaPro no longer functions as we have written. In this case I assume the prefs/GUI setting overrides anything regarding planar set in ModePro. Can anyone confirm that is the case?

#6

Last edited by number6 on 23-Sep-2012 at 01:32 PM.

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What about just using Personal Paint? Any features the DPaint V has over Personal Paint? Personal Paint works great on AmigaOS 4 right? Another idea is for someone to pay TV Paint Development to port TV Paint 10 to AmigaOS 4.x. That program is like DPaint V on steroids. Pretty sure they would ask for a nice chunk of $ to port it to 4.1. You never know, asking is free. I bought TV Paint 9.5 and love it but I don't use it on AmigaOS. Too bad we are in the limited paint program limbo today. In the old days the Amiga had a wealth of painting software to choose from. Much more then other platforms did. That does give an innovative developer an opportunity though.

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@DiscreetFX

I think it’s more the challenge to get Dpaint working, because we have lots of Paint programs that work on AmigaOS4.

TVpaint, PfPaint, Personal Paint, FXPaint

To name a few, and then we have Gimp maybe not paint program by Amiga users definition but you can do paint work on it, there was also that one made by Andy not long ago.

I also have also a paint program that is unfinished, the problem whit is that has to be redesigned, it uses way too much CPU on redrawing graphic that has not been changed.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Sep-2012 at 09:14 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Sep-2012 at 09:07 AM.

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@number6

My understanding is that the fakenative tooltype in the monitor file merely tells rtg.library to either show or hide the modes from the list of available modes in ScreenMode pref and most likely p96 functions like BestModeID() but they are still defined somewhere and ModePro might just be looking for the modes at a lower level. Consequently I don't think the tooltype has any effect on ModePro.

I can't find any documentation on GUI pref so I'm not sure what the "Mode promotion" toggle really does, would have to experiment with it. My best guess is that it tries to find the nearest match when a program tries to open a screen via Intuition->OpenScreen() but that too might have no effect on ModePro if it uses p96 or graphics.library calls instead of Intuition.

Planar on RTG does seem to override any attempt at opening a chunky display mode, which would make sense as the whole purpose is to make sure that the monitor isn't fed a format it can't handle. I leave that option off by default and turn it on when I need it otherwise it prevents ViewILBM from showing my color-cycling bootpicture. Fortunately GUI prefs doesn't need to close the screen to activate it so there's no need to close/iconify open windows to switch it on/off.

I've done more tests with DPaint and found that:

1) I really have to blacklist both DPaint and the dpcpublit library or something will definitely crash sooner or later.

2) "Planar on RTG" isn't quite enough, unless I run Blitzen I can't see nor use brushes I grab.

3) The animations won't play. maybe a CIA timer emulation issue?

Aside from those limitations it's quite usable. I could entertain kids or myself for hours with just the cyclic mirror and a color-cycling brush

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@DiscreetFX

TVPaint 10 seems to be running on MAC PPC, it would be nice to have a minimum OSX layer to make it run under AOS4. I'm not sure if the ABI is the same though.
IIRC TVPaint use it's own GUI system which is portable, a port shouldn't be to hard for them the question is what is their price.

Kamelito

@DiscreetFX
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Any features the DPaint V has over Personal Paint?

Color cycling, mirrors, perspective, etc. But at least it seem to be working fine and animation playback works fine.
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Another idea is for someone to pay TV Paint Development to port TV Paint 10 to AmigaOS 4.x.

I'm only familiar with the Amiga version and it's my favorite for 32bit editing. From their website it looks like the current version has evolved so much that it would take a lot of work to port. I doubt they'd do it for less than $100K so it would take at least 2000 users forking $50, or 1000 forking $100. Not sure enough users would be interested to pull it off. I'd spend $50 for a stable new version with png support, and even $100 for V10.

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@AlexC

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2) "Planar on RTG" isn't quite enough, unless I run Blitzen I can't see nor use brushes I grab.

I can confirm this - good point. Even though some of the features of blitzen have somehow been incorporated into OS4.1, there are apparently some that have not been.

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3) The animations won't play. maybe a CIA timer emulation issue?

Yes, even CIAgent doesn't seem to help with this. I would have thought if it was a CIA issue then CIAgent would show something useful, but it shows nothing when attempting to play anims in Dpaint5.2.

Scott

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@number6

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I guess you mean through s/w?

Yeah. Or possibly even with hardware rendering. But for that the GPU would need to do it every vertical blank to do a just as good job. Except another framebuffer would be needed.

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Because only Radeon R100 and R200 can do scan doubling, not the H/D cards.

That's what I found out. I hope they can still do hardware scrolling!