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      /  Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
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Toaks 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 11:45:41
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8019
From: amigaguru.com

@olsen

Netgear ReadyNAS works fine with smbfs here.

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 12:16:00
#22 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote:
@olsen

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/34742/cifs-vs-samba-what-are-the-differences
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-leach-cifs-logon-spec-00


Um, yes, I'm aware that this documentation exists. In about the same way I'm aware that it is possible to climb Mt. Everest without using an oxygen support system

I would rather avoid diving into the specs, because if I do that, it might take another few years for me to produce tangible results. The sheer challenge of getting this done is beyond scary.

Last edited by olsen on 04-Dec-2012 at 12:30 PM.

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 12:17:13
#23 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@GoosMcGuile

Quote:

GoosMcGuile wrote:
@olsen

my smbfs version is 1.74 and work fine with my
Synology DS112+ shares http://www.synology.com/products/product.php?product_name=DS112
(with 1 TB exFat HDD)

the shares on my Fritz!NAS work just fine too.


I heard that the Fritz!NAS causes trouble since it uses UTF-8 file name encoding. Can you confirm that, and if so, which version of the Fritz!NAS firmware are you using?

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 12:22:35
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@ncafferkey

Quote:

ncafferkey wrote:
@olsen

The problems with using SMBFS with modern OSes have been partly debugged in this thread: http://aros-exec.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6867

Also, I've converted SMBFS into a "normal" handler for use in AROS, and I'd be delighted if you want to include my changes in versions for other Amiga flavours. The sources are in the ABIv0 source package found at http://aros.sourceforge.net/nightly.php in the subdirectory "workbench/network/smbfs/". Some details on the changes made are in the AROS-Exec thread above.


Thank you, I just downloaded the source code and will be looking into the differences between the AmigaOS/MorphOS 1.74 release.

Do you recall the specific change which made it work again? Was it a small change, or did it require more than one fix?

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 12:28:30
#25 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@nbache

Quote:

nbache wrote:
@olsen

That sounds like a great idea! Hopefully a reimplementation will also make it possible to increase the speed (I hesitate to use the term ) of writing from AmigaOS to SMB shares.


I really don't know how the file system's performance comes together in the first place. Reading used to be reasonably fast, but I don't remember writing as being so terrible. But maybe I never noticed, since I always used smbfs on my old 68k Amigas, and those only had 10 MBit/s Ethernet.

Anyway, the fact that the file system sort of gets the job done, rather than getting it done well, is something that might not cut it today. But I'm at loss to explain how the performance could be improved upon. I don't claim to understand how the SMB interface works.

Quote:

As for working servers, I used to have it working with Win XP Pro on my wife's old laptop, but it doesn't with her new Win 7 Home Premium.

Furthermore, I have it working fine from all my Amigas to our NAS, which is (AFAIK) a ZyXel NSA-310 with some Linux distro on it. Only problem is that it uses UTF-8 for filenames, and our SMBFS cannot support this (right?). So when I store all my Danish CD rips on it, titles (filenames) with national letters in them get garbled, and some of the files can't even be read back because they end up containing invalid characters. And of course again there's the write speed issue.


The UTF-8 support should be doable. I wrote the necessary code to handle the ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8 translation back in 2001, and it's been reused in other projects since then. This should do the job, although there's the problem with UTF-8-encoded code points which cannot be translated to ISO-8859-1. I haven't got a good idea how to handle this case yet.

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 12:29:57
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@scOOby

Quote:

scOOby wrote:
@olsen

SMBFS does not work with the SMB implementation of the Apple Airport Extreme router to which you can attach HDDs.


That would be the 3rd or 4th generation Airport Extreme/Time Capsule, wouldn't it? I think I know where to find one to test this with.

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 12:36:42
#27 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@djrikki

Quote:

djrikki wrote:
@olsen

Mac OS X Lion broke SMB (Apple removed it) support, any version before that worked fine.


Yes, 10.7 removed Samba and used the FreeBSD smbd instead.

Quote:

Further info:

http://sambaforamigaos.wordpress.com/

I maintain this site above - if you want to go to the effort of starting a Blog, PM me your email address and I'll add an account on there for you.


Neat site But I'd like to get the goods ready before I start blogging about my adventures

Quote:

Okay...

AmigaOS 4.1 update 6
SMBFS 1.7.4

In my office my AmigaOne 500 connects to these perfectly fine:
iMac MacOS X 10.5.8
Netgear ReadyNAS Duo (X-RAID) RAIDator 4.1.8 firmware, access via CIFS (Common Internet File System), journaled file system, Linux Ext3/Ext4 file system apparently.

( http://www.readynas.com/?p=177#Specifications )


That's the same one I've been using for a couple of years now.

I think I'll have to have a look at the GPL source code they are using, to see which SMB implementation the server is running.

EDIT: I just checked, and it appears that the firmware is using Samba 3.0.37, which was released in 2009.

Last edited by olsen on 04-Dec-2012 at 02:29 PM.

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ncafferkey 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 13:53:16
#28 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Jul-2003
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@olsen

Quote:

olsen wrote:
@ncafferkey

Thank you, I just downloaded the source code and will be looking into the differences between the AmigaOS/MorphOS 1.74 release.

Do you recall the specific change which made it work again? Was it a small change, or did it require more than one fix?


There may be some confusion here. AROS SMBFS still has the same problems working with Windows 7 etc. I merely transformed it from a program into a handler module that's loaded by DOS in the same way as other handlers. This was necessary in order for it to work with a wrapper that AROS has that allows use of packet-based handlers on top of AROS ABIv0's device-based handler system. But IMHO it is convenient that the new version allows setting up SMB mounts through mountfiles.

However, I still think the thread I linked to could be useful as it seems to point the finger at the handling of SMB headers: SMBFS may assume a fixed header size instead of reading a field that specifies the size. It also discusses the difference between supporting SMBv2 (a major undertaking) versus merely supporting Windows 7's implementation of SMBv1 (Windows 7 apparently has this disabled by default but can be coaxed into allowing it).

BTW, to answer the original question of this thread, I have a Buffalo NAS that works with AROS SMBFS, so I assume it would work with AmigaOS SMBFS too.

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pvanni 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 13:57:27
#29 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Aug-2003
Posts: 430
From: Lecco, Italy

@olsen
smbfs doesn't work with my NAS that use LanDisk firmware also known as
NAS-BASIC, I get an error while mounting, it work instead if I use the client tool
from samba (smbclient), actually for the NAS I use FTPMount.

Regarding speed there is a strange thing, if you access a share from a WinXP side,
so using samba the speed it's ok, if you use smbfs the speed is low, this is why I stopped
using smbfs and make files movement from the win side.

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GoosMcGuile 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 14:08:41
#30 ]
Member
Joined: 8-May-2009
Posts: 14
From: Unknown

@olsen

yes, your right, only normal ascii characters are supported in filenames.

My FRITZ!Box 7390 Firmware: 84.05.22

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tekmage 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 17:26:09
#31 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2005
Posts: 304
From: San Francisco

@olsen

Glad to see your looking at taking this on! I just setup a home NAS solution using CentOS and can say that smbfs 1.74 works with Samba 3.5.10. It is extremely slow so I have found it to be of limited value. A quick comparison found smbfs to top out at 400KiB/s with FTP doing 7MiB/s

Maybe someone should create a bounty for an updated SMBFS that supports OS X 10.7 and Windows 7+. Would not hurt to add a transfer rate of over 5 MIB/s too :)

Cheers,
Bill "tekmage" Borsari

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Paul 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 18:13:11
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 566
From: Michigan

@olsen

I don't have a NAS. Just a Windoze desktop and a Windoze laptop I'd like to be able to connect to on our wired/wireless LAN for simple file sharing. I haven't been able to do this since either of those was running Windoze XP. I gave up trying to fiddle with SMB or smbfs under Amiga 4.x ever since we went to Vista, and now 7 on the Windoze side. It would be wonderful if you could make this work again.

Paul

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The Young Frankenthousand A1-XE G4

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nbache 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 21:34:31
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 844
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@Amigo1

Quote:
Amigo1 wrote:
@nbache

The UTF-8 issue is odd.
Have you tried to copy files with umlauts or accents from the Amiga to a NAS for example? The filenames are OK on the destination, be it on Mac or NAS.
Hmmm, it looks like my memory may have played up on me. I just tried creating a file with only Danish characters in the filename on the Amiga side and copying it to the NAS. It worked fine and could be listed and read back on the Amiga. But the problem shows up on my wife's Windows 7 laptop. There the filename comes out as only underscores in Explorer, but the file can still be read.

If I then rename the file using Windows, it looks okay there, but listing it again from the Amiga, I can see that now the filename is in UTF-8. It also seems to contain at least one non-printable character, possibly a line feed, and cannot be opened from the Amiga any more.

This, in retrospect, was also what I have seen with my mp3 files before and should have described as the real problem above, if I had remembered it correctly.

Thanks for exercising my "little grey cells" .

Best regards,

Niels

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nbache 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 4-Dec-2012 21:55:29
#34 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Apr-2003
Posts: 844
From: Copenhagen, Denmark

@olsen

Quote:
olsen wrote:
@nbache

I really don't know how the file system's performance comes together in the first place. Reading used to be reasonably fast, but I don't remember writing as being so terrible. But maybe I never noticed, since I always used smbfs on my old 68k Amigas, and those only had 10 MBit/s Ethernet.
Reading still is pretty okay, it's only the writing that takes ages.

I just made the following test from my X1000:

Copy kernel.debug (around 1.5 MB) from HD to NAS: 1 minute 8 seconds.
Copy the same back from the NAS to a new place on the same HD: 1 second.

This is in line with my dailly experiences.

Quote:
The UTF-8 support should be doable.
Also see my above explanation of how the problem really manifests itself.

Quote:
I wrote the necessary code to handle the ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8 translation back in 2001, and it's been reused in other projects since then. This should do the job, although there's the problem with UTF-8-encoded code points which cannot be translated to ISO-8859-1. I haven't got a good idea how to handle this case yet.
One possibility might be to simply translate such characters into their Unicode 16 bit code point, e.g. U+00E6 for (bad example, as this is in fact contained in Latin-1, but you get the idea). BTW, I use Latin-9 (ISO-8859-15) as system charset here, not -1.

Best regards,

Niels

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abalaban 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 5-Dec-2012 9:18:23
#35 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Oct-2004
Posts: 1099
From: France

@olsen

I'm using smbfs for AmigaOS 4.x for years on my Qnap TS-101 NAS. It's an old model (using a PPC CPU) I don't know the Samba version right now, but I'll check tonight.

I don't find it so slow for me, I can even play my PVR movies from it without any problem.

As Niels I have problems if I'm using characters >128 in file names: they only show right on the OS that was used to create them.
I have another "problem" with the timezone and DST I would like it to automatically detect when the DST is in effect and correct the times accordingly. This seems to be easy using the new timezone.library on AmigaOS 4.x so if you're about to release a new version and don't do it I'll probably add it myself to the SF repository.

I'll donate to the project if you decide to update this essential piece of software.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

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tomazkid 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 5-Dec-2012 17:35:24
#36 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11656
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@olsen

Regarding OSX, can tell you this: Finder works against W2k8 in 10.6, but not in 10.7.
Might get you some encouraging to succeed where Apple failed

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 6-Dec-2012 8:35:54
#37 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@ncafferkey

Quote:

ncafferkey wrote:
@olsen

Quote:

olsen wrote:
@ncafferkey

Thank you, I just downloaded the source code and will be looking into the differences between the AmigaOS/MorphOS 1.74 release.

Do you recall the specific change which made it work again? Was it a small change, or did it require more than one fix?


There may be some confusion here. AROS SMBFS still has the same problems working with Windows 7 etc. I merely transformed it from a program into a handler module that's loaded by DOS in the same way as other handlers. This was necessary in order for it to work with a wrapper that AROS has that allows use of packet-based handlers on top of AROS ABIv0's device-based handler system. But IMHO it is convenient that the new version allows setting up SMB mounts through mountfiles.


Yes, I quickly figured out that the major changes are in the main.c section. The SMB interface code is unchanged.

Quote:

However, I still think the thread I linked to could be useful as it seems to point the finger at the handling of SMB headers: SMBFS may assume a fixed header size instead of reading a field that specifies the size. It also discusses the difference between supporting SMBv2 (a major undertaking) versus merely supporting Windows 7's implementation of SMBv1 (Windows 7 apparently has this disabled by default but can be coaxed into allowing it).


I'll start there. Lucky me: Roadshow has tcpdump support, which should make packet capturing and analysis a wee bit easier.

Quote:

BTW, to answer the original question of this thread, I have a Buffalo NAS that works with AROS SMBFS, so I assume it would work with AmigaOS SMBFS too.


Yes, that should be the case. It appears that the SMB server software used by NAS servers is mostly something from the Samba 3.0.1x-3.0.2x range, which appears to work fine with smbfs.

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 6-Dec-2012 9:36:38
#38 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@nbache

Quote:

nbache wrote:
@olsen

Quote:
olsen wrote:
@nbache

I really don't know how the file system's performance comes together in the first place. Reading used to be reasonably fast, but I don't remember writing as being so terrible. But maybe I never noticed, since I always used smbfs on my old 68k Amigas, and those only had 10 MBit/s Ethernet.
Reading still is pretty okay, it's only the writing that takes ages.

I just made the following test from my X1000:

Copy kernel.debug (around 1.5 MB) from HD to NAS: 1 minute 8 seconds.
Copy the same back from the NAS to a new place on the same HD: 1 second.

This is in line with my dailly experiences.


Wow, that's really terrible. Still, I don't understand how the write operations play out. It's possible that writing requires the other side to acknowledge each packet sent, and a different set of write commands might do the same job better. There's always more than one type of packet in SMB to do the same job :-/

Quote:

Quote:
The UTF-8 support should be doable.
Also see my above explanation of how the problem really manifests itself.

Quote:
I wrote the necessary code to handle the ISO-8859-1 to UTF-8 translation back in 2001, and it's been reused in other projects since then. This should do the job, although there's the problem with UTF-8-encoded code points which cannot be translated to ISO-8859-1. I haven't got a good idea how to handle this case yet.
One possibility might be to simply translate such characters into their Unicode 16 bit code point, e.g. U+00E6 for (bad example, as this is in fact contained in Latin-1, but you get the idea). BTW, I use Latin-9 (ISO-8859-15) as system charset here, not -1.


Parsing the file names and escaping what doesn't translate will invariably complicate the path name processing, and there are only so many characters in a file name (107) that may be used.

Hm... maybe something simple will suffice: escape the untranslatable code point octets with % and escape the % character, too, just like this is done in URL schemes. I think that the escaping option should not be enabled by default, and names which don't decode would be omitted from directory listings instead. This would make the file system safe to use by default. If you know exactly what you're doing, you would enable the escaping option.

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olsen 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 6-Dec-2012 9:41:10
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 605
From: Germany

@abalaban

Quote:

abalaban wrote:
@olsen

I'm using smbfs for AmigaOS 4.x for years on my Qnap TS-101 NAS. It's an old model (using a PPC CPU) I don't know the Samba version right now, but I'll check tonight.

I don't find it so slow for me, I can even play my PVR movies from it without any problem.


Reading seems to work much better than writing. Niels wrote as much, and this is how I recall it, too. In his case, reading was a whole magnitude faster than writing.

Quote:

As Niels I have problems if I'm using characters >128 in file names: they only show right on the OS that was used to create them.


I suppose the file system just returns the file names as they were created and performs no decoding. It's whatever reads those file names which will get itself into trouble.

Which reminds me: once the UTF-8 support is in smbfs, it will have to perform strict validation of the file names, or strange things are bound to happen.

Quote:

I have another "problem" with the timezone and DST I would like it to automatically detect when the DST is in effect and correct the times accordingly. This seems to be easy using the new timezone.library on AmigaOS 4.x so if you're about to release a new version and don't do it I'll probably add it myself to the SF repository.


The time zone offset is currently hard-coded in the command line/project settings options processing. Which is probably too simplistic to be useful all the time. I'll see what I can do.

Quote:

I'll donate to the project if you decide to update this essential piece of software.


Money is always welcome, that's why they call it "money"

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Reanimating the 'smbfs' Amiga SMB file system client: Which Samba/Windows version works for you?
Posted on 6-Dec-2012 15:54:41
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 9589
From: Norway

@olsen

I hope you are getting somewhere whit this.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

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