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      /  OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
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PosterThread
resle 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 11:37:58
#201 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@Dandy

In the same post you're quoting, I am the first to say that there is no cause that is inherently good or bad.

BUT - If there is really no way of identifying causes that are good to a certain amount of people within this community, then there's really nothing left holding the community together anymore and no reason for sticking to this "Amiga thing".

Well, in this case I see something extremely specific: make a LINUX distro work on some VERY SPECIFIC and OUTDATED hardware. How can this feel
1) Good
2) Related to Amiga
- is beyond me.

Last edited by resle on 25-Jun-2013 at 11:49 AM.

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Overflow 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:01:18
#202 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1422
From: Norway

@resle

Ill take a stab at this one;

If you buy Amiga Hardware you support the vendors and developers of said hardware, hopefully
encourage them to stick around and maybe even develop new versions (Trevor, acube, amikit etc).

Ok, so you got Amiga Hardware+AOS4, but it cant do all you want it to do, whatever that might
be. So alongside AOS you use Linux, getting access to software and hardware support.
I dont really see how that Is a bad thing.

On my Intel PC I got both Linux and Win7, and I dont see much conflict with that.

Last edited by Overflow on 25-Jun-2013 at 02:03 PM.
Last edited by Overflow on 25-Jun-2013 at 02:02 PM.

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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:08:52
#203 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Thread

Given the A3000UX was an Amiga produced by Commodore with Unix as the default OS, it's not exactly unprecedented to consider selling Amiga-branded computers with a Linux distro as the default OS.

/Heresy

Last edited by Boot_WB on 25-Jun-2013 at 02:09 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:14:48
#204 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

Quote:
Given the A3000UX was an Amiga produced by Commodore with Unix as the default OS, it's not exactly unprecedented to consider selling Amiga-branded computers with a Linux distro as the default OS.


dAmiga
AmigaMini

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resle 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:34:58
#205 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@Overflow

When you take, as a platform, a PPC board which is unrelated to Amiga unless you're running AmigaOS 4.X on it...

...and you take away AmigaOS 4.X to replace it with Linux...

...you end up with Linux, on some custom PPC board. Period.
How in the world has this anything to do with Amiga.

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:38:35
#206 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5726
From: Unknown

@resle

Quote:
How in the world has this anything to do with Amiga.


because an amigan is sitting in front of that! thats enough.

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resle 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:38:56
#207 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@Boot_WB

Amiga original hardware (any) running Linux/Unix? It's an Amiga.
Amiga original hardware (any) running AmigaOS? Obviously an Amiga.
NG hardware by third parts running AmigaOS? Somewhat an Amiga.
NG hardware by third parts running Linux/Unix? Not an Amiga. In any way.

Last edited by resle on 25-Jun-2013 at 02:39 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:42:22
#208 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@resle

Quote:
NG hardware by third parts running Linux/Unix? Not an Amiga. In any way.


If it has Amiga in its name, then it is Amiga. Without doubt.

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:44:09
#209 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5726
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
If it has Amiga in its name, then it is Amiga. Without doubt.


lets check if this can run amigaos:

http://csimg.shopwahl.de/srv/DE/29014134797/T/340x340/C/FFFFFF/url/mireille-mathieu-der.jpg

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:45:40
#210 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5097
From: Unknown

@pavlor

then CUSA produced "Amigas"?

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:51:11
#211 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
then CUSA produced "Amigas"?


Yes.


You ask the wrong person. As an Amiga.Inc supporter, I see everything with their "blessing" as Amiga (sort of).

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:53:42
#212 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5097
From: Unknown

@pavlor

that is a "minority" opinion for sure...

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Overflow 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 14:55:28
#213 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1422
From: Norway

@resle

You bought a piece of hardware you most likely want to use with AO4, but for practical reasons to
get the most usability out of it you have Linux as alternative.

Get the most out of the hardware of your choice.

I dont see the problem, but God forbid someone would want to be practical with the hardware
you got.
If you want to travel down that road you end up with "why use anything but Windows or IOS, as AOS, AROS, MorphOS cant support hardware like the 2 mentioned first".

Hell, lets only use INTEL cpus.

Or maybe let people enjoy their hardware as they please without it being called out as a bad idea or
hurting "the cause".

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cgutjahr 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 15:04:31
#214 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 826
From: Unknown

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:

The OS4 OpenLinux Project is the equivalent of the Fedora Project or the OpenSUSE project.

No, it's not. The projects you mention have proper websites, clearly defined goals, long lists of contact addresses and quite a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo. And, most importantly, they prominently feature all sorts of tools that allow me to discuss the project or contribute to it (mailing lists, bug trackers, IRC channels, code repositories, design documents, forums, dev cons (in real life or via the net) - stuff like that).

The "OS4 Open Linux Project", on the other hand, is just a blog hosted by Google's free blogging service. It doesn't contain much information at all, and if I click on "contribute", it basically says "send an e-mail, please". And while the site refers to a "team" or "us" most of the time, at some places you can also find references to "me" ("e-mail me"). That's quite telling.

To sum it up: The "OS4 Open Linux Project" doesn't seem to exist right now. It's just a headline on a meaningless blog.

And this "headline on a meaningless blog" is apparently trying to get control of the Amiga trademarks - your company website pc-opensystems.com doesn't mention "Amiga" at all. Nice move - if the rights holders actually try to stop you, you just shut down a stupid website.

I understand that all the attention you get right now feels really nice. And it doesn't take much imagination to see lots of people cheering you on behind the scenes - because everything that pisses of Ben Hermans and the scavengers at amiga.com is considered a good thing these days. And, as an added bonus, they can use you as a scapegoat to see what the reaction will be. Everybody wins, right?

You want to rape the Amiga trademark some more? Fine, be my guest. The thing has been treated so badly for the last 1.5 decades it barely resembles what I used to love so much. Another offender honestly doesn't make much of a difference to me.

I'd just wish we'd get some adult offenders for a change. This kindergarten crap and all the drama surrdounding it is getting really tiresome.

For a start, how about you open a new thread, and tell us why we would need your product? There's not much information available about your distribution, but it looks like a reconfigured (X)Ubuntu. X1000 users already have Ubuntu, Mint and (IIRC) Debian available. What does "OS4" do that these other offers don't?

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number6 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 15:06:24
#215 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9889
From: In the village

@thread

If you want to get technical in terms of trademark, which some of you seem to be pointing at, then USPTO serial # 85821711 makes it quite clear.

Quote:
AMIGA

Goods and Services

IC 031. US 001 046. G & S: Alpaca fiber products, namely, insoles, socks, tree ornaments, yarn, rugs, and livestock and pet clothing


Quote:
Live/Dead Indicator

LIVE


That must be why so many discussions of "what is Amiga" ended up in the Amiga.org "sock" drawer. Heh.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 15:21:30
#216 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@resle

Quote:

resle wrote:
@Boot_WB

Amiga original hardware (any) running Linux/Unix? It's an Amiga.
Amiga original hardware (any) running AmigaOS? Obviously an Amiga.
NG hardware by third parts running AmigaOS? Somewhat an Amiga.
NG hardware by third parts running Linux/Unix? Not an Amiga. In any way.


For my personal sentiments, I happen to agree with you, with the minor modification of:

Hardware by third parties running an Amiga-like OS? Somewhat an Amiga.

I'm not going to try to stand in the way of someone else modernising the brand though, as it won't affect our enjoyment of our NG Amiga-like OSes.

The only thing it could affect is the rebirth of an Amiga-like-OS trying to benefit from the 'Amiga' trademark - but let's face the reality that this isn't going to happen regardless. Hyperion can't use "Amiga", and neither can Amiga Inc allow it to be used in conjunction with any other Amigalike OS*.

If anything, a broader marketing of computers under the Amiga brand could inadvertantly create some side-exposure of the NG OSes, especially if that exposure is in geek circles. If the community manages to avoid having a "let's set fire to the place" period during this, some people might actually come back.

*OT:

Hyperion actually has the same rights to use the "Amiga" TM as AROS or MorphOS do in fact.
They do have AmigaOne, but if I create Amiga2.0 can they claim it's infringing the Amiga TM without exposing their own AmigaOne TM ?
They have the right to AmigaOne as is, but to demonstrate that Amiga2.0 CONTAINED the Amiga TM would be to demonstrate the same for the AmigaOne TM.

Just a line of thought...

/OT

Last edited by Boot_WB on 25-Jun-2013 at 03:31 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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vox 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 15:26:14
#217 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@RobertJDohnert

X1000 is over 2000GBP with VAT and even as basic system. Horribly expensive, but compared to
If you are about to develop for X1000 you should ask A-EON for a Nemo board (just the X1000 board) and they should gladly donate one. Same was offered to port MorphOS to it, but the team refused. Serious developers only.

Well, while I am not thrilled by your idea of CUSA continuation and Amiga Linux, AmigaOne Linux for PPC Macs, Pegasos II boards (MorphOS users could help here), X1000 and SAM 440/460 would be most welcome, since no PPC Linux support these "Amigish" PPC systems (able to run AmigaOS/MorphOS) out of box and in continuation.

So I would pay $99 for such stable and continued in development distro. While I do find choices of Debian and Mint 11 PPC as good, these teams cannot support our boards out of box. One Linux to rule PPC boards but with bugfixing would be nice, as X1000, SAM 460 and SAM 440 and so on users have a lot of troubles over time in maintaining their links.

Now, your test of Amiga Inc might be difficult. They want their 600$ per product a year and I do believe its unworthy. Better go back to OS4 Linux. Now seeing that licence is not that expensive I see how greedy CUSA was.

@pavlor

Best I can accept is that CUSA produced CommodoreUSA Amigas, a repacked PCs in MacMini style case with AMIGA logo for a short period of time. Some barbones are maybe left, but system was shortly on sale, unworthy of mention. Its difficult to be Amiga Inc fan over time. Same AmigaAnywhere I do read Amiga Inc Anywhere and so on. It might contain name Amiga, but who does it and why ...

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 15:32:41
#218 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

Quote:
They do have AmigaOne, but if I create Amiga2.0 can they claim it's infringing the Amiga TM without exposing their own AmigaOne TM ?


They will simply show your Amiga2.0 to Amiga.Inc and Bill will try to fill his empty pockets... at your expense.

Quote:
Hyperion can't use "Amiga", and neither can Amiga Inc allow it to be used in conjunction with any other Amigalike OS*.


Hyperion can use AmigaOne or Amiga One. Sure, they can licence plain name Amiga from Amiga.Inc, but there is no reason to do it. Now, if you want new Amiga branded computer, AmigaOne is your only choice.

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 15:42:55
#219 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
Best I can accept is that CUSA produced CommodoreUSA Amigas, a repacked PCs in MacMini style case with AMIGA logo for a short period of time. Some barbones are maybe left, but system was shortly on sale, unworthy of mention.


I acknowledge it as Amiga, but it certainly is not product worth of Amiga heritage.

Quote:
Its difficult to be Amiga Inc fan over time. Same AmigaAnywhere I do read Amiga Inc Anywhere and so on. It might contain name Amiga, but who does it and why ...


Same people (man...) were at birth of AmigaOne and AmigaOS 4 more than 10 years ago. Yes, it is hard to support someone who lied too much (like they), but I wouldn´t be loyal Amiga user, if I abandon them in time when they are so helpless.

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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 25-Jun-2013 15:44:33
#220 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Boot_WB

Quote:
They do have AmigaOne, but if I create Amiga2.0 can they claim it's infringing the Amiga TM without exposing their own AmigaOne TM ?


They will simply show your Amiga2.0 to Amiga.Inc and Bill will try to fill his empty pockets... at your expense.


Bill doesn't like Ben anymore, and might well be open to the idea for a fee. $1200 + 5% as a goodwill gesture might sound quite attractive to free up an imprisoned brand name, enough to choose not to sue over the Amiga part anyway.

Quote:
Quote:
Hyperion can't use "Amiga", and neither can Amiga Inc allow it to be used in conjunction with any other Amigalike OS*.


Hyperion can use AmigaOne or Amiga One. Sure, they can licence plain name Amiga from Amiga.Inc, but there is no reason to do it. Now, if you want new Amiga branded computer, AmigaOne is your only choice.


Non sequitur - they don't have the right to the Amiga brand remember.

Last edited by Boot_WB on 25-Jun-2013 at 03:47 PM.
Last edited by Boot_WB on 25-Jun-2013 at 03:45 PM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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