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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 8:50:30
#301 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@OlafS25

I wouldn't read too much into those stats either.
(No ARs on me, but that doesn't mean my words carry any weight. )

If someone has multiple ARs I might (internally) question if they have an agenda, but generally unless someone is bullying, attacking or very deliberately trying to start a major flamewar I wouldn't even consider reporting them.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 8:57:50
#302 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5726
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
Hmmm... Niburu topic started November 2012 - 11983 page views.
THIS topic started June 19, 2013 - 10203 page views.

ermm. interesting..
except that nibiru subject is entirely boring and admittedly i havent even try to view the thread in question, do you think these figures are real, or.. realistic - given our current attendance?

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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:01:28
#303 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote:
@number6
[...] do you think these figures are real, or.. realistic - given our current attendance?


Number of page views, not the number of individual visitors.
No reason to think it's not accurate, but it might include a few bot-visits I suppose.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:10:37
#304 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5726
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

i dont know how to get that info for comparison, but i know what was meant. i find it curious nevertheless. looking at the only site the subject has been discussed too
http://amiga-news.de/
i doesnt seem that the interest (to comment upon) there is higher than (very) average.
for the sake of comparison, what are statistics in lets say, such controversial thread like the one, where evert carton showed up?

edit: ah i see now. nevermind!
edit: still dont know, how can i see attendance details for older threads found by search function.

Last edited by wawa on 26-Jun-2013 at 09:16 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 26-Jun-2013 at 09:12 AM.

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sundown 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:16:16
#305 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5098
From: Right here...

@OlafS25

A new member showing up with a blank profile page has no right to demand that anyone else prove his/her credibility. But lets face the the real problem here, we are all considered liars, I am, you are, #6 is, & everyone else who posts in the forums are not trusted to be tell the truth. I understand what you're saying, just tired of school yard bully mentality of some. Demand any personal info you like as long as you're willing to give out your own in return.

I'm not here to kiss anyones butt & I don't expect anyone to kiss mine, "butt" I'm a liar.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:21:49
#306 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 199
From: Raleigh NC

@cgutjahr

Quote:
Sure, the "openly contribute thing" didn't work for you - let's just leave it at that. And let's ignore that half of the things I listed were not about contributing, but about infrastructure for users. And let's ignore that the first 40 google hits for "os4 openlinux" all pointed to your own site two days ago (ironically, there are some links to Amiga forums in the first 40 hits now).


I said it didnt work because it got out of control. Everyones free to contribute but lets add order to it so we dont have 10 contributers working on the exact same thing all over again.. Everything needs order, also if you want to know more google OS4 OpenDesktop. As for your suggestions, we actually changed a couple of things today.

Documentation expanded and new communications

So thank you for those suggestions.

Quote:
The root of my argument is that your project doesn't seem to go anywhere, and that this is the reason why you're here. The root of my argument is that your business plan sounds a lot like all the other business plans I got to witness in the last 15 years:


Actually, its grown a great deal since we introduced it. I came on here to address an issue, beyond that I found a way I could contribute positively to the community and I intend to do so.

Quote:
I do. There's really no connection between your product and the trademark you're trying to get your hands on. Using an old trademark to sell a product or get some more attention is raping, as far as I'm concerned. On top of that, you openly admit that you got contacted by the owner of the trademark, and that he didn't want to give you a license. Yet you're still here and you're still planning to rebrand your Linux distribution as "Amiga". What would you call that?


And thats your opinion, And no, Im not using an old trademark to sell a product. I addressed "Amiga OpenLinux" about 2 or three times and obviously you cant or refuse to read.

Quote:
I'm angry because you're either trolling all of us or you're just really, really not-so-clever. It's completely obvious that nothing useful is ever going to come out of this - we witnessed half a dozen wannabe community leaders like you come and go. And the result was the same every xxxxxxx time: People getting annoyed, people getting pissed or disillusioned, people leaving the community.


Not trolling. So whats going to come out of this. You will get a fully optimised, commercially supported distribution on the Amiga X1000. That expands A-EON's business, because they can sell machines into the Enterprise, that expands my business because I can sell PowerPC machines into the enterprise, with "OS4 Enterprise Linux" so its a win win for us and A-EON. I dont expect you to be a user personally, but thats OK. I still like you.

Quote:
I don't care about the trademark anymore. I care about the community. And said community doesn't need you, that much is for sure.


Opinions are like... Well you know the saying.

Quote:
I didn't "attack" your product, I said it's useless for this community


You know my take on opinions. To subside your anger I have found that playing with a cute, cuddly puppy helps a lot. Dont take yourself too seriously my friend.

Once again, thank you and good day to you sir.

_________________
http://www.pc-opensystems.com

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:40:03
#307 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 199
From: Raleigh NC

Well Darn,

Looks like an Amiga/Linux marriage was almost brought to fruition before.

Amiga to use Linux kernel

_________________
http://www.pc-opensystems.com

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:42:41
#308 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5097
From: Unknown

@RobertJDohnert

there is only one problem... the X1000 cannot be sold anymore because the processor is out of production and the rest available too expensive. So a-eon cannot sell more X1000 (whatever runs on it)

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:43:42
#309 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5097
From: Unknown

@RobertJDohnert

that "news" is a little old...

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resle 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:46:00
#310 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:
You will get a fully optimised, commercially supported distribution on the Amiga X1000. That expands A-EON's business, because they can sell machines into the Enterprise, that expands my business because I can sell PowerPC machines into the enterprise, with "OS4 Enterprise Linux" so its a win win for us and A-EON


The Enterprise is drooling over being able to run OS4 Linux on a $2800 machine that performs like a $250 all-in-one X86 Atom mini pc which can already run, well, all the other existing distros out there.

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 9:56:31
#311 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5726
From: Unknown

@RobertJDohnert

Quote:
So whats going to come out of this. You will get a fully optimised, commercially supported distribution on the Amiga X1000. That expands A-EON's business, because they can sell machines into the Enterprise, that expands my business because I can sell PowerPC machines into the enterprise, with "OS4 Enterprise Linux" so its a win win for us and A-EON.


i appreciate your effort, but im curious: do you really think there is a commercial market for ppc based linux given the price/performance ratio of available hardware (in this case x1k, which appears to be your only option)? if yes, what are your expectations? im asking this, since until the opening of this thread you did not even apparently consider ppc as a platform as it seems. where does this immediate change of mind comes from? i mean, usually leading a serious enterprise, considerations and making such essential decisions take a whole lot of time, while you change the name and logo (essential corporate identity elements) at will and on a daily basis and also claim ones that to your best knowledge do not belong you. this doesnt look like an acceptable behavior for an enterprise, because usually it might scare the partners and investors, not to talk of users. under usual terms it would be seriously damaging public relations and credibility of a company, and therefore none is doing that. one almost gets an impression, perhaps there is just none to scare off, and therefore you had nothing to lose. and also that there is none you need to consult.

im sorry, if this sounds critical, i dont want to spoil your business with trevor, nor scare you away, nor be in any way negative about you and what you are doing, but these are honest and immediate considerations that come to my mind.

Last edited by wawa on 26-Jun-2013 at 10:01 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 26-Jun-2013 at 10:00 AM.

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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 10:27:54
#312 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@OlafS25

Quote:
OlafS25 wrote:
@RobertJDohnert

]there is only one problem... the X1000 cannot be sold anymore because the processor is out of production and the rest available too expensive. So a-eon cannot sell more X1000 (whatever runs on it)


Who said anything about selling X1000s with (Linux) OS4?

Quote:
That expands A-EON's business, because they can sell machines into the Enterprise, that expands my business because I can sell PowerPC machines into the enterprise, with "OS4 Enterprise Linux" so its a win win for us and A-EON.


It's also quite possible Trevor has given him some insight into A-Eon's next motherboard, but aside from that there's Servergy to work with (as I seem to remember reading they suffered from a lack of PPC Linux support), and a lot of POWER server-level hadrware out there to potentially target.
A new PPC linux distro might be quite broadly appreciated, although admittedly CruxPPC, YDL et al don't seem to have survived the decline of PPC too well.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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amigadave 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 10:32:18
#313 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@RobertJDohnert

there is only one problem... the X1000 cannot be sold anymore because the processor is out of production and the rest available too expensive. So a-eon cannot sell more X1000 (whatever runs on it)


I have not seen any announcement that AmigaKit and A-Eon have stopped production of the X1000 definitely. Can you provide a link to the source of your info regarding this?

If it is just your opinion that no more production runs will be made after the current X1000's that are being prepped and distributed by AmigaKit, then I might agree with you, but still, I am unaware of any official statement regarding the end of production of the X1000 by A-Eon, or AmigaKit at this time.

Edit: I am pretty sure that reality, and the posts and attitudes of several members here, will soon have Robert banging his head against a wall, or at least feeling like that is what he is accomplishing here.

Last edited by amigadave on 26-Jun-2013 at 10:40 AM.

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"Amiga" - The computer that inspired people to invent and create!

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 10:32:59
#314 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5097
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

He mentioned X1000 and it is the only a-eon product right now. Regarding next motherboard I cannot remember anything read about it. And I personal do not see a big market for it because most of the AmigaOS (who could afford) already bought one (and most certainly will not buy a second expensive system). Custom board production is very expensive and risky.

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 10:35:09
#315 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5097
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Official announcement? Where is "official" announcement to continue production in next years? It is safe to say that the processor is out of production and got unpayable expensive (these two are official).

And even if there is a further batch of 100 that is nothing in todays world. And existing community buy it because of using AmigaOS. Additional users buying it because of professional linux are companies that are able to compare prizes. Do you think any professional company would buy a X1000 for that price?

If a-eon produces a cheaper and more competitive system this might be different (or if this linux distribution f.e. supports professional IBM server but this does not help a-eon). But still people would compare X86/X64 hardware and prices with it and I cannot imagine that they can compete there.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 26-Jun-2013 at 11:50 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 26-Jun-2013 at 10:47 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 26-Jun-2013 at 10:38 AM.

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vox 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 10:38:27
#316 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@wawa

Quote:
i appreciate your effort, but im curious: do you really think there is a commercial market for ppc based linux given the price/performance ratio of available hardware (in this case x1k, which appears to be your only option)? if yes, what are your expectations? im asking this, since until the opening of this thread you did not even apparently consider ppc as a platform as it seems. where does this immediate change of mind comes from? i mean, usually leading a serious enterprise, considerations and making such essential decisions take a whole lot of time, while you change the name and logo (essential corporate identity elements) at will and on a daily basis and also claim ones that to your best knowledge do not belong you. this doesnt look like an acceptable behavior for an enterprise, because usually it might scare the partners and investors, not to talk of users. under usual terms it would be seriously damaging public relations and credibility of a company, and therefore none is doing that. one almost gets an impression, perhaps there is just none to scare off, and therefore you had nothing to lose. and also that there is none you need to consult.


I can agree an add to this discussion: after nice intro letter everybody understood OS4 Linux has nothing to do with Amiga. Nobody would troll you further and you would enjoy happy life in maintaining commercial and usable x86 Linux.

Possibility was open to do a PPC port if you have time and nerves for it.

Suddenly out of blue, everything changes to "Amiga" and on Likendn you became an affiliate of Amiga Inc in your own words, without license from them. That might create confusion and legal issues to your own users.

I agree X1000 PPC distro (or overall well supported PPC Linux running on MacMinis and X1000) that would be maintained is a great aid to existing X1000 users (and PPC Mac users). Its overall not a big market, but is some additional market.

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

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amigadave 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 10:44:55
#317 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@amigadave

Official announcement? Where is "official" announcement to continue production in next years? It is safe to say that the processor is out of production and got unpayable expensive (these two are official).

And even if there is a further batch of 100 that is nothing in todays world. And existing community buy it because of using AmigaOS. Additional users buying it because of professional linux are companies that are able to compare prizes. Do you think any professional company would buy a X1000 for that price?


No, I was not disagreeing with you. I only asked if you had seen any official statement regarding the end of X1000 production. I have no hidden agenda, it was just a simple question.

And, NO, I don't expect anyone other than a very dedicated Amiga user with cash to burn to purchase an X1000 system. I doubt very much that any Linux users will line up to purchase an X1000, even if they were more easily available, unless they were really curious about AmigaOS4.x and wanted to buy it for that reason.

To answer your question: Trevor himself first stated that there would be no more production runs of the X1000 at last year's AmiWest Show, but later retracted it and left the possibility for more production runs open to the availability of A-Eon and AmigaKit being able to purchase the PA6T CPU's at acceptable prices. Thus there is an "Official" statement that production of the X1000 is continuing, but only when/if AmigaKit & A-Eon are able to find the CPU's at the right price. This I have heard in person from Trevor's own words (though he probably worded the statement a bit different and I cannot remember the exact quote of what he said).

Last edited by amigadave on 26-Jun-2013 at 10:49 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 10:51:33
#318 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5097
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Yes then we agree. And no I cannot remember official "end of production". If there will be new batches will certainly depend on preorders and the processor price (and of course production costs). But a professional linux distribution will certainly not help X1000 (a geek machine). It could help future (cheaper and better) systems selling to professional users but it would be still in competition with cheap X86/X64 systems. Perhaps there are companies using PPC Servers that might be interested, I do not know.

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vox 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 11:08:00
#319 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@OlafS25

Quote:
Yes then we agree. And no I cannot remember official "end of production". If there will be new batches will certainly depend on preorders and the processor price (and of course production costs). But a professional linux distribution will certainly not help X1000 (a geek machine). It could help future (cheaper and better) systems selling to professional users but it would be still in competition with cheap X86/X64 systems. Perhaps there are companies using PPC Servers that might be interested, I do not know.


a) It helps existing X1000 users
b) as well said, opens possibility for future systems to be supported out of box with nice Linux distro
c) dont forget PPC Mac/MorphOS users might be interested too
d) If it could cover SAM 440/460/Peg2/old A1 viable "Amiga" market is increasing from X1000 numbers

Quote:
The Enterprise is drooling over being able to run OS4 Linux on a $2800 machine that performs like a $250 all-in-one X86 Atom mini pc which can already run, well, all the other existing distros out there.


Maybe I am too optimistic, but I expect PA Semi to outperform Atom on same clock rate of 1.8Ghz

Last edited by vox on 26-Jun-2013 at 11:09 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 26-Jun-2013 11:15:16
#320 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5097
From: Unknown

@vox

But professional users would not say the 2800$ machine outperforms the 250$ machine and then buy the 2800$ machine, they look at the hardware and compare the specs and then buy a 500$ system (that certainly outperforms X1000, even if both cores are supported). My 3 year old notebook I bought for less than 500 EUR already had 4GB and 3 Cores. Today you get 4-5 cores for the price.

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