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      /  OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
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scabit 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 28-Jun-2013 23:07:14
#481 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2005
Posts: 1663
From: Satellite Beach, FL USA

@cgutjahr

This is quite an amazing thread.

I think we should all unite - AROS, MORPHOS and AMIGAOS and fight this outside threat to our sanity and the status quo. It seems to me almost all of us are already in agreement that:

a) This interesting company is following a familiar pattern...a pattern not so profitable to the existing "Amiga" community or one that offers "the Amiga community" any real value
b) Whatever the "plan" they offer it is unlikely to become a reality that will please the existing user base

So lets all unite together against this common enemy, but aside our petty differences and face this usurper together shall we! Oh come on, give it a try!


@Wawa
Quote:
being voted "troll president" i dont call anybody else "a troll". how dared i?


Hope I didn't hurt your feelings...but with Franko being banned we needed a new nominee, and you were already highlighting your "nominations' for us.....

Scott

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number6 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 28-Jun-2013 23:23:16
#482 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9894
From: In the village

@scabit

At this point I can't tell a genuine expression from sarcasm.
The thread contains both I'm sure, but we need an "S" marker.

It took years from 2010 until the published q/a with Barry with input from any and all who wanted to participate.
Were those good times for everyone?

At the very least conducting a true question and answer session -immediately- should prevent a repeat of the consequences of "waiting" that long again.

#6

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 28-Jun-2013 23:27:49
#483 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5727
From: Unknown

@scabit

Quote:
I think we should all unite - AROS, MORPHOS and AMIGAOS and fight this outside threat to our sanity and the status quo.


fight this outside threat? apart that im not actually buying into this hype, at least not until anything essential that might convince me is delivered, i dont have any problem with it. they can call their linux "amiga" or whatever all day long as far as im concerned, its none of my business. the only thing i discuss is an assumption if this would have any positive impact on anything "amiga" as we define it. which i doubt.

secondly how do you want to fight that enemy? with fire arms? (you know they are pretty much harder to come by in europe than in the us) because we have no arguments or influence on that whatsoever, even if we all had a common point of view at the matter (which is not the case). amiga, os4 nor that amiga-linux-os4 all that doesnt belong to us. by what authority and simply why do you want to take responsibility for that all?

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 28-Jun-2013 23:41:59
#484 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5727
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:
It took years from 2010 until the published q/a with Barry with input from any and all who wanted to participate. Were those good times for everyone? At the very least conducting a true question and answer session -immediately- should prevent a repeat of the consequences of "waiting" that long again.


i think both interviews will probably have about the same effect on anything that personally interest me as "amiga", namely null. therefore i actually dont mind if i need to wait, because im not particularly waiting for anything like that anyway. but if there will be whatever essentially interesting to report from that chat session, do it by all means. at least we will have something to quarrel about again, in lack of better distraction.

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AmigaMac 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 0:54:52
#485 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Oct-2002
Posts: 974
From: 3rd Rock from the Sun!

@scabit

Quote:
I think we should all unite - AROS, MORPHOS and AMIGAOS...


That'd be the best thing to happen to the Amiga community since its birth!

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Rob 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 0:55:46
#486 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5588
From: S.Wales

@scabit

Quote:
I think we should all unite - AROS, MORPHOS and AMIGAOS and fight this outside threat to our sanity and the status quo.


What threat?


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Yo 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 1:52:53
#487 ]
Team Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2004
Posts: 2042
From: France, on an ADSL line

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote:
@scabit

Quote:
I think we should all unite - AROS, MORPHOS and AMIGAOS and fight this outside threat to our sanity and the status quo.


What threat?




Apathy

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resle 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 8:02:46
#488 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

..and the Open EnterpriseAmiga Linux OS4 for X1000 mogul has vanished already..

Last edited by resle on 29-Jun-2013 at 08:04 AM.

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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 8:24:00
#489 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@resle

Quote:
..and the Open EnterpriseAmiga Linux OS4 for X1000 mogul has vanished already..


Hmmm... website is stll there, OS4 linux is still downloadable.

Given that he's arranged to be present on the Sunday night chat, I wouldn't exactly call it disappearing.
You and I may visit here daily, but maybe he's got better things to do during the week than hang about on forums trading barbs. Hell, I'd be more suspicious there was nothing to it if he WAS constantly on the forums 'bigging it up'.

Prophecising failure in Amgialand is usually a safe bet. I'm happy to wait until Sunday to see what his plans are. I've already laid out what I think the opportunity is here.

I'll be asking myself 2 questions form Sunday's chat:

1) Is it likely to harm or hinder my hobby OS in any way?
2) Is it going to offer anything positive for my hobby OS?

As long as 1) is a "no" then I don't really mind.

If 2) is "yes" then that's a bonus.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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resle 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 8:32:39
#490 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@Boot_WB

then, he has already achieved his goal. You feel you need to "ask him questions" like whatever he is doing could influence the Amiga scene. He got his status just by slapping an amiga moniker somewhere and mentioning getting in contact with this and that. Where, instead and darn obviously, whatever he will do won't be relevant to the amiga scene, either positively or negatively. Yet, there he is, showing up on chats to graciously grant the herd to reach him with questions and enlight it.

bah.
(or should I say baaaaaaaah....)

Last edited by resle on 29-Jun-2013 at 08:34 AM.
Last edited by resle on 29-Jun-2013 at 08:33 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 9:02:51
#491 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@resle

I will wait for sunday too to make a judgement for myself

And it is the result of the unwillingness of existing parties to make something together instead fighting against each other. Instead they hold the heritage as hostage. The attitudes that parts of the key developers have hold back the whole platform and if someone from outside breaks that it could bring a boost. That is my personal view, others do not have to share them. But some of those were wrong in the past already, why do they think their view must be correct this time?

I have sent some clear answers to them if they are not or not clearly answered I will join Gutjahr and others here.

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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 9:11:34
#492 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@resle

If you're right, then you'll be proved so on Sunday. Bleating about it now just smacks of fatalism. Neither of us know what is going on behind the scenes with the -unknown quantity- of the Amiga brand.

Even though our hobby-OSes aren't dependent on the Amiga brand, it's still related so yes, I'd like to know what his plans are for it. Same as I was interested in Barry's plans (until it became clear that there was no plan beyond 1) Buy, 2) Customize, 3) Add obscene markup 4) Profit).
Same as I had a mild curiosity as to what McBill was up to with RIMM. I'm also vaguely interested in what goes on with the Commodore brand.

That's not to say I'll be switching to (or even installing) OpenLinux, it's simply an interest in what happens with the Amiga brand.

I see an opportunity for the Amiga brand to break free from its current position, not a Messiah to follow.

Last edited by Boot_WB on 29-Jun-2013 at 09:17 AM.

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opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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resle 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 9:45:22
#493 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@Boot_WB, wawa

answers will be shapen by your expectations, which you made transparent here. you will be told what he knows you want to hear. My very last words on this story :)

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OlafS25 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 9:52:03
#494 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@resle

and at the end we are all dead

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Overflow 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 9:52:21
#495 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1423
From: Norway

@resle

Heh, well, noone (few at the very least) will spend money on something they cant use.
So if words is all someone brings to the table then all you waste is a few minutes/hours listening.

IF words are backed up by action down the line, then great.

Nothing lost and potentially something gained. How can this be bad?

Trevor and Aeon was treated with the same scrutiny and he came thru.
You can argue about choice in hardware and pricing, but the action follow his words.

BUT being positive doesnt make for entertaining forum posts.

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Boot_WB 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 10:54:51
#496 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@resle

True enough, if he is a crook.

I've made my hopes plain, simply because I see a possibilty to free the brand by marketing it with a 'substantially different' architecture (which will run on - amongst other things - all our NG hardware), and I'm hoping that will help shape the direction that the Amiga brand goes in, if it goes in any direction at all.
I'm pretty sure Olaf sees the same possibility as I do.

If they get the rights, and use them as suggested, then no-one loses anything (as no-one has the right to use the 'Amiga' trademark anyway).

- Users gain improved Linux support on their PPC machines.
- AROS gains a x86 'target hardware' brand in addition to iMica etc.
- Hardware manufacturers/system-builders gain the possibility to use the Amiga trademark, and possibly another sales portal for their hardware with increased foot traffic.
- All OS-teams gain the choice to support hardware sporting a recognised trademark to market their own OSes for new hardware ("runs on Amiga"), or 'suggest' additional hardware platforms that LinuxOS4_PPC might want to support.
- Amiga Inc gets some licensing revenue.
- Linux OS4 has it's marketing brand.

There's some technical detail to work out (ensuring the Amiga brand sublicensee isn't distributing or 'making available to the public' OSes with a substantially similar architecture*) but that's all. (Having a link to the OS homepage, rather than hosting a download image, should get around that one.)

The only loser would be whoever wanted the Amiga brand booted into the long grass in the first place, and frankly my sympathies for their feelings are not that great.

-----

By now they've had time to have discussions with A-Eon, possibly A-Cube, and hopefully other parties. We'll see what comes of it, but if Trevor and/or Max are on board, then that will give me some confidence.

If by Sunday it's just Roberto with no 'partners' on board and just rhetoric, then sceptical-me will come back out to play.

* (In fact, if you look at the wording of the settlement, they're only prohibited from distributing/making available "The software AND any OS" with a similar architecture.

Unclear wording in a Hyperion/Amiga contract? who'd a thunk it.

ianal, but form my interpretation that that wording would not prohibit Amiga Inc (or sublicensee) from marketing AROS/MorphOS (without OS3.1) on Amiga hardware as-is.

EDIT: Removed hideous mangling of the English language ("their" instead of "they're").

Last edited by Boot_WB on 29-Jun-2013 at 04:35 PM.
Last edited by Boot_WB on 29-Jun-2013 at 10:57 AM.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 11:59:22
#497 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

Quote:
ianal, but form my interpretation that that wording would not prohibit Amiga Inc (or sublicensee) from marketing AROS/MorphOS (without OS3.1) on Amiga hardware as-is.


Amiga.Inc and Hyperion interpret it otherwise.

No AmigaOS-like OS on Amiga branded hardware (except AmigaOS itself). Of course, third party can port its OS to Amiga branded board (eg. AROS to Amiga Mini from CommodoreUSA), only licensee (eg. CommodoreUSA) can´t sell its Amiga branded product bundled with AmigaOS-like OS.

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wawa 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 12:16:13
#498 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5727
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Amiga.Inc and Hyperion interpret it otherwise. No AmigaOS-like OS on Amiga branded hardware (except AmigaOS itself). Of course, third party can port its OS to Amiga branded board (eg. AROS to Amiga Mini from CommodoreUSA), only licensee (eg. CommodoreUSA) can´t sell its Amiga branded product bundled with AmigaOS-like OS.


and what about mos and aros on sam (amigaone500) or x1k as it was apparently attempted? ah wait, they are not amigas but amigaones, all clear. but since only "amigas" in this century came from cusa and were plain pcs, how could os4 (amigaos itself as you call it) ever run on this hardware.

so if what you write is truth, its a trade off by two sides (ainc/hyperion) to slash the cake in two and never again allow to run "amigaos" on any "amiga". nice deal, especially for us.

Last edited by wawa on 29-Jun-2013 at 12:17 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 12:29:13
#499 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
and what about mos and aros on sam (amigaone500) or x1k as it was apparently attempted?


AmigaOne is Amiga branded computer. AmigaOne licence is another part of agreement - Hyperion can market AmigaOne with all AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS, if they wish. I don´t know if contract between Hyperion and A-Eon (or Acube) prohibits sale of AmigaOne computer bundled with AmigaOS-like OS. However, 3rd party download of these OSs for AmigaOne should be fine (even in eyes of Hyperion).

Quote:
how could os4 (amigaos itself as you call it) ever run on this hardware.


Only Amiga.Inc is prohibited to market AmigaOS-like OS on Amiga branded hardware. As I wrote in this very thread, Hyperion can get Amiga name licence for hardware from Amiga.Inc and bundle AmigaOS with this hardware (I only wonder, why they would do it, if they have royalty free exclusive AmigaOne licence).

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: OS4 OpenLinux: Regarding the Amiga Community
Posted on 29-Jun-2013 12:44:03
#500 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10736
From: Norway

@wawa

Quote:
slash the cake in two and never again allow to run "amigaos" on any "amiga". nice deal, especially for us.

Yes that’s basically what the settlement deal was.
Amiga Inc was using Amiga name for their product AmigaDE (Amiga anywhere), to sell mobile content to BlackBerry and other phones.

Then Amiga Inc made deals whit CUSA, allowing them to use the brand names for a license fee.

Brand "Amiga" has lost a lot of value, because it will end up having no meaning if people continue to sell other products like toilet paper.

When you start Google "Amiga 500" and find 500 rolls of toilet paper you know what I mean.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 29-Jun-2013 at 12:46 PM.

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