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      /  aros research on smp
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PosterThread
pavlor 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 9:24:45
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@Kronos

Quote:
now thats is so goddam awfull even most OS4 programs either use MUI or some halfported Linux-crap these days.


Brief browsing through OS4depot shows Reaction is used more than MUI:
Emulation/
Amines
AmiArcadia
Colem
Genesisplus
Gngeo_gui
Smsplus
Tgemu
Vbagui
Warpsnes
Xmamegui

Utility/Archive/
Cranu
Utility/Filetool/
Amidisk
Filer
Findmore
Utility/Hardware
Apod

Only few MUI based applications in these drawers.

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wawa 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 9:45:06
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@Kronos

Quote:
- ReAction ...... now thats is so goddam awfull even most OS4 programs either use MUI or some halfported Linux-crap these days.

aros68k runs the available 68k reaction (?) programs ive came across, like aweb or so. usually you just need to download some missing classact classes and put them where they belong (classes/gadgets)

Quote:
- WarpUP ........


you are not serious obviously. what would be point of that? aros is best advised to avoid to support these ugly unnecessary hacks/workarounds that came to existence out of despair, because there was no reasonable way forward anymore.

Quote:
- Some dos extension for allowing partitions >4GB .... dunno even which one, doesn't matter since it's all the same when coding in "user space"


have not tested it extensively but im pretty sure aros supports >4gb even on 68k out of the box, why shouldnt it?

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wawa 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 9:48:37
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
Brief browsing through OS4depot shows Reaction is used more than MUI:

not a lot utilities anyway. soon qt will be the most popular gui on os4 i gues. but why should aros seek full compatibility with os4 anyway? partial compatibility with os4 and mos is maintained to allow easier ports, but beyond that?

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wawa 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 9:49:03
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

again triple post, making me sick..

Last edited by wawa on 26-Aug-2013 at 09:49 AM.

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wawa 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 9:49:07
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

..seems this site has some problem with my crappy connection or something.

Last edited by wawa on 26-Aug-2013 at 09:50 AM.

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pavlor 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 9:51:52
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
but why should aros seek full compatibility with os4 anyway?


That is reasonable. Compatible, where it makes sense, improve in other areas.

Quote:
soon qt will be the most popular gui on os4 i gues.


I don´t think so. It is really useful for ports (eg. qtpdfview), but native software will continue to use Reaction or MUI.

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Kronos 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 9:55:16
#67 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2082
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Yeah, some tools, emulators and such use ReAction, but do they outnumber all apps using MUI,GTK,QT,whatever combined ?

And even if they would, should we count a small utility the same way as OWB (the proper one) ?


@wawa
It's nice that AROS-68k can run the old ReAction binaries, but one still can't recompile RA-SW to any other version of AROS (not that one should....).


Sure, "WarpUP" is useless these days, but it was one of the few APIs added to 3.5/9

Back in the day there were (atleast) 2 ways/patches to go beyond 4GB and as usual it was a fiercly fought feud. All nextgen OS and 3.5/9 have one of these implemented and as long your not writing low level DOS stuff, you will hardly every notice which one.

_________________
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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 10:14:38
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Applications that use ClassAct do run (it is in my distribution). And I do not see much sense reimplementing everything from 68k. It is a cross-platform API so you have to reimplement everything because you cannot simple copy f.e. 68k libs like on AmigaOS or MorphOS. What makes it worse is that many 68k components are not available in source or written in ASM. On Aros 68k you can copy everything in libs or C to add it. So the question is what is really necessary for future development and there I think it is more important to break the old limits and add modern features than to reimplement existing components.

Assuming Aros would offer full ReAction support, do you think all the AmigaOS devs would support Aros? And ReAction is not the only difference, take any topic (memory management, the different libs, RTG...) and dig a little in the different documentations there are differences on all platforms that are often "only small" but thus making it hard to find. Most developers only support one platform because of this (sometimes also because of lack of interest in the other platforms) so I do not think that it would change much. It is more important to have something that is interesting enough to attract users outside. And even for 68k SMP could become interesting for new FPGA based Amigas. Most other features can be added at least in Aros 68k. If I remember right f.e. AmiArcadia works with ClassAct. And the few applications really needing ReAction are not worth the effort.

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 10:18:30
#69 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@Kronos

many applications are not available in source because developers long left the community. And as I wrote there are many differences between the platforms that make supporting all very difficult. Sometimes I think OS developers are doing everything to make life of application developer hard but more propable it is just that they do not care. Besides I think because of common components and sources Aros and MorphOS have more in common than AmigaOS and Aros.

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 10:24:05
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Yes on OS4 ReAction is more used propably. But how many of these developers are supporting another OS (f.e. MorphOS)? And if there would be a "ReAction" implementation would this change anything? I do not think so. If they would be interested in cross-platform they would support already MUI because it is the standard on all platforms, if they use ReAction they show that they are primarly interested in AmigaOS.

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wawa 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 10:25:16
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@Kronos

Quote:
Sure, "WarpUP" is useless these days, but it was one of the few APIs added to 3.5/9

therefore aros should basically stay compatible to 3.1 there may be soem api extensions one could adopt from beyond, but surely not warpup.

Quote:
Back in the day there were (atleast) 2 ways/patches to go beyond 4GB and as usual it was a fiercly fought feud. All nextgen OS and 3.5/9 have one of these implemented and as long your not writing low level DOS stuff, you will hardly every notice which one.

i remember but i dont know how this is done on aros. never bothered to check. you could have asked jason yesterday in the q/a irc session.

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wawa 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 10:30:17
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
That is reasonable. Compatible, where it makes sense, improve in other areas.

aros will likely never be api compatible to os4 as design decisions went in different directions, also ppc is not main aros platform and apparently there is almost no interest
for aros port of ppc, so why must aros developers provide features where is no reason and demand?

keeping zune compatible to mui and trying to achieve mui4 compatibility is more sensible as mos provides some unique apps that use these features. thats another story.

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broadblues 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 11:50:08
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4122
From: Portsmouth England

@Kronos

Quote:


Yeah, some tools, emulators and such use ReAction, but do they outnumber all apps using MUI,GTK,QT,whatever combined ?

And even if they would, should we count a small utility the same way as OWB (the proper one) ?


Codebench, Sketchblock, AOrganiser? These are hardly small utilities.

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broadblues 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 11:52:00
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4122
From: Portsmouth England

@thread

I wish jason luck with his research, hope he proves the nay sayers wrong .

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

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itix 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 12:23:04
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3390
From: Freedom world

@pavlor

I just made quick search on OS4Depot and it seems both Qt and MUI are outnumbering Reaction software. You can of course use selective searching but it is not going to help your agenda. For example in Utility/Archive there is MUIUnArc (MUI) and Aarni (Qt) and Cranu (RA).

_________________
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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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megol 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 12:23:10
#76 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 190
From: Unknown

@broadblues

Quote:

broadblues wrote:
@thread

I wish jason luck with his research, hope he proves the nay sayers wrong .


That's not possible. What naysayers claimed (at least those with a bit of clue) was that AmigaOS can be extended to SMP while staying compatible. That's true and this experiment can't change that. What this could prove is that pseduo-SMP is possible, pseduo as halting all processor except one in Forbid/Disable states means that it can't be proper SMP.

I hope that the experiment works - if it does it would be possible to have high performance FPGA 68k multiprocessors. For doing it on x86 I personally don't see the point - a single core JiT emulator is plenty fast.

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 12:26:06
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@megol

I agree regarding FPGAs and SMP. But I also think that modern features like SMP on X86/X64/ARM are important to attract users (and expecially developers) outside the community.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 26-Aug-2013 at 12:26 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 12:28:49
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:
I just made quick search on OS4Depot and it seems both Qt and MUI are outnumbering Reaction software.


Source for your claim?

Quote:
For example in Utility/Archive there is MUIUnArc (MUI) and Aarni (Qt) and Cranu (RA).


You name only "1" MUI application. Even my selective list was longer!

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 12:33:43
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Wouldn´t you say that using Reaction (instead MUI) is a conscious decision for one platform (AmigaOS) and against cross-platform development?

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pavlor 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 12:58:24
#80 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8416
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
Wouldn´t you say that using Reaction (instead MUI) is a conscious decision for one platform (AmigaOS) and against cross-platform development?


Reaction is main GUI toolkit for AmigaOS since 3.5 (14 years ago!).

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