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PosterThread
megol 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:07:58
#81 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 190
From: Unknown

@pavlor

No.

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itix 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:08:46
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3390
From: Freedom world

@pavlor

Quote:

Source for your claim?


http://aminet.net/search?readme=MUI&arch[]=ppc-amigaos
http://aminet.net/search?readme=reaction&arch[]=ppc-amigaos

From OS4 depot use sql search and type Qt or MUI to requirements field or Reaction, MUI or Qt to Text field:
http://www.os4depot.net/index.php?function=modules/sql/search

Quote:

Quote:

For example in Utility/Archive there is MUIUnArc (MUI) and Aarni (Qt) and Cranu (RA).

You name only "1" MUI application. Even my selective list was longer!


No it wasnt.

Quote:

Utility/Archive/
Cranu

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Minuous 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:09:03
#83 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Oct-2004
Posts: 314
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

>Wouldn´t you say that using Reaction (instead MUI) is a conscious decision for one platform (AmigaOS) and against cross-platform development?

Not at all, my software is ReAction-based and is available for OS3.9, OS4 and MOS. And it would be available for AROS too except AROS still doesn't support ReAction yet.

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Kronos 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:09:09
#84 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2079
From: Unknown

@pavlor

It was PROCLAIMED that (for reasons anything but technolig), but it was mostly ignored by most 3rd party developers.

Just look at the number of apps released in that era useing MUI,Triton,GadTools, something costum vs. those useing ReAction.

Now substract those bundled with 3.5/9 (AWeb) and or done by H&P and your down to ....

So no ReAction never was the "main" GUI-TK for any 68k AmigaOS and one could even question wether it ever actually gained that status with OS4.x.

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:13:02
#85 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I am pretty sure that there are more 68k MUI-Applications on aminet than ReAction. But if it is "official" or not makes no differences. It is only available for AmigaOS and partly on 68k (3.5. or 3.9. I cannot remember). MUI is in one or another form available on all platforms so if someone wants to support different platforms he has to use MUI. If someone decides for ReAction he does that because he concentrates his software on AmigaOS (primarly on PPC).

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wawa 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:13:55
#86 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

sorry. its enough! may i remind that this is not a thread about mui agaist reaction but about aros smp experiment?

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:13:57
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@Minuous

ReAction is available on MOS?

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Kronos 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:16:46
#88 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2079
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

One can install ClassAct and/or 3.9 68k-components under MorphOS.

Didn't bother eversince VojagerPPC was bundled with MorphOS1.3(?) elimintaing the need for AWeb.

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itix 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:17:21
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3390
From: Freedom world

@OlafS25

There is free Reaction kit available for download at Aminet.

@wawa

Yea, maybe start new thread for MUI vs Reaction vs Qt discussion and others.

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pavlor 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:18:06
#90 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@itix

Your way don´t list even Reaction based applications I found by hand (4 vs 10 in Emulation drawer). It seems only long (and boring) manual search can yield definitive answer.

56 (for MUI in requirements)
120 (for MUI in text)

87 (for QT in requirements)
110 (for QT in text)

12 (for Reaction in requirements)
92 (for Reaction in text)

3372 applications (etc.) on OS4depot.

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wawa 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:19:17
#91 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5714
From: Unknown

@megol

Quote:
That's not possible. What naysayers claimed (at least those with a bit of clue) was that AmigaOS can be extended to SMP while staying compatible. That's true and this experiment can't change that. What this could prove is that pseduo-SMP is possible, pseduo as halting all processor except one in Forbid/Disable states means that it can't be proper SMP.


the shape this experiment is going to take is what this experiment is all about. what you are writing about is just its current state.


Quote:
I hope that the experiment works - if it does it would be possible to have high performance FPGA 68k multiprocessors. For doing it on x86 I personally don't see the point - a single core JiT emulator is plenty fast.

one eye blind obviously. if it helps 68k (appropriate multicore hardware doenst even exists) why shouldnt this help on x86? except one only considers 68k as viable platform.

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pavlor 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:20:16
#92 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8415
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
sorry. its enough! may i remind that this is not a thread about mui agaist reaction but about aros smp experiment?


Sorry

Back to topic. What OS components can benefit from SMP? Eg. I assume Gallium3D can use more cores?

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:20:30
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

back to topic

Last edited by OlafS25 on 26-Aug-2013 at 01:21 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:23:11
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I think everything that needs a lot of calculations (that could be games or spplications like Raytracers). Or imagine a web browser that uses several cores (f.e. one for prerendering). I do not know if Gallium would benefit that much. It is the interface to the graphic card (that already has its own logic and memory).

Last edited by OlafS25 on 26-Aug-2013 at 01:24 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:36:10
#95 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4119
From: Portsmouth England

@pavlor

Quote:

Back to topic. What OS components can benefit from SMP? Eg. I assume Gallium3D can use more cores?


Anything.

If you have multiple processes running, then each can run on a separate core. Therefore the whole OS should speed up, though not necessarily in proportion and different processes may end up waiting for others.

Things benefit more if they are designed to use multiple processes.

eg blender has a threaded renderer, so render speeds increase per core. an older 3d render like say imagine doesn't though so will only run on one core, so rendering wont speed up, other processes will still run in parallel though, so it won't drag on the system as much.

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itix 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:48:43
#96 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3390
From: Freedom world

@pavlor

Quote:

What OS components can benefit from SMP? Eg. I assume Gallium3D can use more cores?


Hardly. It is difficult to split inside API calls to multiple threads and it doesnt help if jobs are very short. There is always (small or large) overhead when splitting jobs to multiple cores and they could be competing for same resource giving no advantage in the end.

Archiver could be zipping/unzipping two files simultaneously but if your filesystem or hard disk cant keep up (i.e. slow USB device) it wont get much faster.

Last edited by itix on 26-Aug-2013 at 01:52 PM.
Last edited by itix on 26-Aug-2013 at 01:51 PM.

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Jupp3 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:51:38
#97 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1202
From: Unknown

@Kronos

Quote:
- Some dos extension for allowing partitions >4GB .... dunno even which one, doesn't matter since it's all the same when coding in "user space"

If I remember correctly, for perhaps the first time ever, the whole Amiga developer & hw manufacturer community had agreed on a common way to tackle this problem. Everyone was happy.

Everyone except H&P. They ended up using their own solution instead.

Of course there were other things such as:
-Awful CD player
-Restricted video player
-Workbench improvements (better sorting, better keyboard support)
-Warez version of AmiTCP/Genesis
-GlowIcon support

Of course many are basically just shareware / freeware programs, that were already available at 3.1 times.

I'd say last 3 are more important. All "modern" AmigaOS implementations already have a TCP/IP stack and support for GlowIcons (in addition to better formats), Workbench AROS doesn't have at all, but its replacement is in some ways better than the original.

Also worth noting that many of the listed things are categorizable as (3rd party) programs, rather than "OS API", although glowicon support can be implemented in both ways.

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OlafS25 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 13:56:24
#98 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@Jupp3

with replacement on AROS you mean Magellan?

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Jupp3 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 14:16:03
#99 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1202
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@Jupp3

with replacement on AROS you mean Magellan?


In the future perhaps (would make perfect sense). I think the current desktop is called "Wanderer".

I agree that it's not, and shouldn't be called "Workbench" as it has somewhat different featureset (something better, something worse) and afaik doesn't aim to be 100% similar including all the restrictions etc.

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Jupp3 
Re: aros goes smp
Posted on 26-Aug-2013 14:17:51
#100 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1202
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@wawa

Quote:
but why should aros seek full compatibility with os4 anyway?


That is reasonable. Compatible, where it makes sense, improve in other areas.

Quote:
soon qt will be the most popular gui on os4 i gues.


I don´t think so. It is really useful for ports (eg. qtpdfview), but native software will continue to use Reaction or MUI.

Actually, I remember some Hyperion interview, where it was pointed out that Hyperion considered all current (MUI, ReAction, ...) toolkits somewhat obsolete, and wished that AmigaOS could have something more modern in the future, such as Qt.

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