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      /  Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
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ferrels 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 30-Oct-2013 17:26:37
#21 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 686
From: Arizona

@Fransexy

Exactly my point. Nothing in Amiga-land is suitable for bitcoin mining, and certainly not decade old Radeon HD 9000 series cards found in most NG Amigas. Your preference for Radeon cards to mine bitcoins is arguable and it ultimately just comes down to user preference and configuration. Trying to use an Amiga of any kind to mine bitcoins is like trying to win a motorcycle race by using a tri-cycle.

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QuBe 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 31-Oct-2013 1:16:19
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Rose

Thanks Rose for that example... I understand how it works in a better way now. 12 months to mine that block... unbelievable!

So the Amiga will remain a snail in the Bitcoin world unless you can run Bitcoin mining in a massive parallel :(

Bittoaster would need to be a super computer on a card and cost 10K USD to make any impact at all it seems.

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 31-Oct-2013 at 01:32 AM.

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QuBe 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 31-Oct-2013 1:18:02
#23 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Crumb

I see, when you say FPGA mining you mean programming the processor chip specifically for the Bitcoin protocol algorithms in order to speed up the mining process?

Q!

"i am home"

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QuBe 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 31-Oct-2013 1:24:50
#24 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Belxjander

Thank you very much for your posts. I learnt quite a bit from it and have noted everything you have written.

No point in doing it then on an Amiga it seems unless one can get access to the right combination of hardware or custom based FPGA solutions were able to "speed up" the process significantly.

If you could leave your Bitcoin mining box at work, under your desk, you may be able to at least leech power "for free" 24/7 while mining. Risky though and unlikely to work when you consider corporate IT policies and the like :)

No free lunch as they say, unless you are a banker!

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 31-Oct-2013 at 01:34 AM.

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QuBe 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 31-Oct-2013 1:27:38
#25 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@ferrels

Interesting... aim is to mine using free "power"... or, if you are lucky, a solar array...

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 31-Oct-2013 at 01:35 AM.

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Frags 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 31-Oct-2013 2:08:52
#26 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

@QuBe

...but better to sell the energy!

I was reading the other day about a coder for some anti-cheat software who had inserted mining code and been fired of course.

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ferrels 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 31-Oct-2013 2:24:18
#27 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 686
From: Arizona

@QuBe

Yes, I was interested in bitcoins myself until I found out how much energy was used/wasted to create the darn things. The energy costs offset the value of the coins, so it seems the only people mining them are the nefarious types using hundreds of compromised PCs in botnets or IT administrators who are stealing CPU cycles from their corporate data centers. One might even conceive that it's a conspiracy against the green movement! LOL!

I've also seen a fair number of people selling dedicated bitcoin hardware that looks quite shady as well......

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Yssing 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 31-Oct-2013 14:57:55
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 920
From: Unknown

@ferrels

So can I buy real food for bitcoins?
I haven't seen a single online or offline store, where I could shop using bitcoins, only real cash.

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Frags 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 31-Oct-2013 16:24:03
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2004
Posts: 971
From: East-Midlands (Nottingham) UK

@Yssing

There aren`t many, it`s more of a commodity than a currency at the minute but I don`t see why £200-worth of SHA hashing power is any less valuable than £200-worth of anything else so I`m excited to see if more people buy into it long term.

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QuBe 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 1-Nov-2013 2:58:44
#30 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Yssing

I believe it will continue to grow... like everything "new" it will take time... FB/Twitter etc... It is a matter of perception and what it means to the man on street, similar to the concept of Gold and Silver - difficult to mine, costly and you can't print these precious metals out of existence, hence the surge in value as QE and monetary debasement has kicked in with full force.

As the Federal Reserve continues to debase its own currency, whilst at the same time lowering the value of US treasuries and other dollar based assets, so international creditors and the public at large will eventually realise that it is a zero sum game, and that the paper they hold in the bank and in their pockets is actually worthless, in real terms.

Property, Gold, Art etc, these asset classes clearly show one the relative value of hard assets compared to paper assets that are systematically being devalued as we speak.

QE is trying to stoke inflation, well, the EU noted yesterday inflation dropped to 0.7%, in fact we are in a deflationary spiral because people's wages are not rising, and the value of their money continues to lose value in relation to hard assets that can't be printed out of existence. ECB now may cut interest rates further!!! Japan has been in deflation for 20 years! Printing hasn't helped them... But take head and beware of what central bankers tell, including what is presented to you as the official inflation number. Inflation KPI's usually don't take into consideration the price rises of asset classes such as property for example.

So property price increases and bubble formation clearly indicate that actually, "real" inflation should be higher, and it is, but its not officialised as part of the inflation statistic. If it were officialised, people would realise that they have just lost 10, 20, 30% of the value of money in their pockets. Well we can't have that can we, oh no... that would be political suicide... So the mechanism of QE debases your money, crushes real wage growth but creates asset bubbles across the board, as we have seen in Gold, Property, Bitcoin etc... clearly indicating you are getting poorer by the day...

The very fact that the middle classes are being crushed and the value of their money is becoming increasingly worthless by the day will assist limited asset classes, including crypto-currencies like Bitcoin and Litecoin to increase in value over time. They can't be printed, only mined, and there is a limited quantity of them...

Once the general public is behind the concept, and society takes back control of their money from the kleptocratic maniacs that our bankers and central bankers have become, market forces will then operate normally again...

Here we go...

World’s First Bitcoin ATM Launched in Canada
Latest move toward mainstream use for virtual currency

http://business.time.com/2013/10/30/worlds-first-bitcoin-atm-launched-in-canada/

We need an Amiga Bit-Toaster :)

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 01-Nov-2013 at 06:09 AM.
Last edited by QuBe on 01-Nov-2013 at 03:06 AM.

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olegil 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 1-Nov-2013 7:47:47
#31 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@QuBe

All currencies are worth exactly what the population deems it to be. Gold and silver can easily change value due to changes in availability.

Bitcoin is a bit unique in that there's a fixed ceiling on how many units can exist and the mining gets progressively more difficult. So the value must come up for it to continue to be mined. Which means that those who jumped on the bandwagon early get rich and those who jump on late do not. Classic pyramid scheme in that regard. However, those who jump on late do not actually LOSE anything by jumping on, so it's not quite so bad either.

On the other hand, there's always Gresham's Law.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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QuBe 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 1-Nov-2013 8:53:17
#32 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@olegil

Thank you for your note olegil. I think one has to read between the lines when discussing what has been happening in the Gold and Silver markets.

Gold and Silver fall into two market categories, the Physical Bullion market and the Paper (or derivatives) market, the ultimate ponzi scheme in my view...

The physical bullion market has been under increasing strain as people (particularly in Asia) have been buying the physical stuff to protect their wealth against FIAT currency debasement and "inflation".

There was a surge of buying recently after gross manipulation of the paper gold markets (derivatives market) was initiated by the main investment banks around the world as a proxy to "shake out" the little men and plough back in once the price hit rock bottom, or there about. Of course this had the opposite affect with people around the globe buying more Gold and Silver then the physical market can supply.

The mark of this is when you note the actualised difference between the paper price of Gold (currently around 1300 USD per ounce), with how much you have to pay to actually buy the physical stuff - a bar of Gold if you like. The premium to actually by the physical Gold and take delivery of it is much higher than the current paper price.

The paper price of Gold is manipulated, as is the case with most financial instruments out there. Huge tranches of Gold are sold in a second, pulling the Gold price down by $50 dollars or more at any time, specifically when the the investment bank trading houses want to "shake out the market", causing massive blood letting in their wake.

The "man in the street" really does not have a clue day to day what is happening with these forces beyond his control and how, long term, are affecting everything from the value of money in his pocket to the quality of life he will have upon retirement.

As time goes on more and more people will want to take back control of their money from kleptocrats that have proven themselves to be no good to anyone, let alone a healthy market driven economy.

Q!

"i am home"

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Yssing 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 1-Nov-2013 9:08:31
#33 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 920
From: Unknown

@QuBe

Well inflation has always de-evaluated the buying power of the money, that is why we have a higher salary now than 50 years ago.

I don't see bitcoin changing that, and in order to give bitcoins a real value, it would have to be used by the "man in the street" and not just by a bunch of geeks.

As long as I need real money to buy food and pay rent, then I would rather spend my time on working and making real money. But that is just me and my opinion, the situation might very well change in the future.

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QuBe 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 1-Nov-2013 9:17:24
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Yssing

Fair enough Yssing, I respect your opinion, and you are generally right presently, as the system "works" for the majority of us at this juncture. However, the massive distortions we have seen in the markets of late prove that financial system needs to evolve and change, and I think we are seeing the beginnings of this change with the Bitcoin movement, or similar.

I think the main point here is the issue of central control... who has it and what can they do with this ultimate power.

As money dictates much regarding your quality of life (and all associated KPI's), it is important that massive financial distortions and calamities are minimised. As we have seen though, once greed (compounded by leverage) takes control we usually head one way... a collapse with massive wealth destruction.

Whilst salaries have gone "up", when reflecting against "hard assets" that actually have a store of value, salaries have gone down on a real world weighted basis. I believe the $10 dollar loaf of bread is not too far off

The middle classes earning "good enough" salaries to get by, and, in most cases, supplementing that salary with some additional debt, have probably not felt it too severely, though many people I meet tell me of their ever tightening budgets.

I believe this is typical for the majority of people where budgeting for the essentials is becoming increasingly difficult. This clearly illustrates to me that the overall value of money in your pocket is declining, or likely to decline at an ever quickening pace.

I must admit, the Federal Reserve is embroiled in a risky monetary experiment. No one really knows the outcome. Eventually the Fed will taper, or will try to; but it depends on whether QE has had a massive negative affect on real employment and velocity of money (in circulation) to actually get things moving; i.e. real tangible growth, leading to higher sustainable GDP, which in turn would warrant higher interest rates to curb the money supply.

I don't see that happening any time soon... but who knows...

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 01-Nov-2013 at 02:52 PM.
Last edited by QuBe on 01-Nov-2013 at 09:28 AM.
Last edited by QuBe on 01-Nov-2013 at 09:22 AM.
Last edited by QuBe on 01-Nov-2013 at 09:21 AM.
Last edited by QuBe on 01-Nov-2013 at 09:18 AM.

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Yssing 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 1-Nov-2013 9:49:47
#35 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 920
From: Unknown

@QuBe

I get your point, and it is very true for a ultra liberalistic market, where the strong dictates what the money is worth.
And there a new sort of monetary system, like bitcoin does indeed has its rights. But what is to stop the very rich from acquiring the computer power to mine more than the rest?

Personally I think that a more socialistik system needs to replace the ultra liberalistic system, but with out changing to communism, which has proven not to work.
But its all politics and a matter of political views.

I don't see any world, where the very very rich somehow will not be able to control the masses, not even total anarchy.

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QuBe 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 1-Nov-2013 14:57:42
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Dec-2006
Posts: 1062
From: Dunes of Uridia

@Yssing

Agreed my friend, agreed; the very rich will always have an "up" on us mere mortals. Saying that though, it doesn't hurt to be informed and well aware of what is going on about you. I think a good portion of the general public are so embroiled with problems "closer to home", people simply don't have the time and/or energy to take in what is happening around them in great detail. Usually when a cataclysmic event happens, it is to late and people are generally ill prepared.

All I can say is that if one is privileged enough to have the time and the intelligence to understand what is happening around them, it gives one a greater chance of survivability, no matter how remote the chances...

Q!

"i am home"

Last edited by QuBe on 04-Nov-2013 at 01:40 AM.
Last edited by QuBe on 01-Nov-2013 at 02:59 PM.

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Valiant 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 9-Nov-2017 23:52:42
#37 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2003
Posts: 1070
From: West of Eden, VT USA

@QuBe

Any change in status of Bitcoins on Amiga since this was last discussed?

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Plaz 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 10-Nov-2017 3:42:15
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1562
From: Atlanta

Wow, blast from the past. Anyone clever enough to pick up some bitcoin in 2013 and hang on to it must be very happy today.

Meaningful mining is pretty much in the realm of current high end gpu's or purpose build chips. Sounds out of reach for anything Amiga based unless your next gen Amiga also runs linux and has great gpu's.

There are a couple of coins still CPU mined that might be of interest for someone wanting to learn or experiment with crypto currency clients on Amiga. First is Monero, which would have little or no return on lowend machines imho. Very tough to mine. Second, Hodlcoin. Hodl is much easier to mine, but nearly worthless at this time. I think if I were interesting in learning crypto on Amiga with a chance of actually acquiring a few cpu coins for successful testing, hodl would probably be where I might start as a programmer.

oh look, hodl was up 7% today (nov 9, 2017) lol.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/hodlcoin/

Plaz

Last edited by Plaz on 10-Nov-2017 at 03:56 AM.
Last edited by Plaz on 10-Nov-2017 at 03:43 AM.

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RodTerl 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 10-Nov-2017 4:18:27
#39 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 6-Sep-2004
Posts: 581
From: Rossendale

@Plaz

What is the possible bitcoin equivalent throughput relative to GPU, of the X1000s programmable hardware Crypto offload engine thats built into the CPU?

All I can remember is that it was supposed to have a maximum throughput of 2 Gigabytes a second, for handling dual 10 gigabit LAN full network speed total encryption for P2P crypto transactions?

Or am I really forgetting the data from 2010, Seven years ago.

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Hypex 
Re: Amiga and the Bitcoin Revolution?
Posted on 10-Nov-2017 15:24:38
#40 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8691
From: Greensborough, Australia

@QuBe

What's a coin?

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