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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga Emulation
      /  Emulation: A passion
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PosterThread
pavlor 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-May-2014 11:41:11
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:
Note i wrote before Xeno is using Qemu on linux and is much better compared Qemu on macos x 10.5.8 there run on 64 bit.


Certainly not 3 times faster.

Quote:
Soon i will reinstall lubuntu on my quad and will make new bench and shots
for now this are the performance of the buggy VirtualPc 7.02 on G5 (it use only on of the quadri core) it is not optimized for g5 but can made understand the performance of this cpu


That was my point - 970MP is powerful, much more than PA6T. 1194 DMIPS - Pentium III 750 MHz class performance.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-May-2014 12:17:24
#42 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land



@pavlor

Think this on the Lubuntu i have 1.97 points on integer and on MacOsX 10.4.8 = 1.54
is about 30% more il PPC64 kernel on lubuntu.
the host os make many difference on the Quad G5 because all software are not optimized for this machine on the MacOSx side ...
apple drop down the support too soon the Xcode was updated on 3.1.2 just couple of months before the 4 exit without PPC support

Another test i made was yabuze on the
Quad G5 Nv 6600 MacOs X = 35-42 fps
Quad G5 Nv 6600 Debian Wheezy = 60-120 fps

about virtual Pc
1194 DMIPS - Pentium III 750 MHz class performance
not bad for an old and not optimized emulator :)

Last edited by tlosm on 17-May-2014 at 12:26 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 17-May-2014 at 12:23 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 17-May-2014 at 12:20 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 17-May-2014 at 12:18 PM.

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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pavlor 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-May-2014 12:35:10
#43 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:
is about 30% more il PPC64 kernel on lubuntu.


Yes 30 %, but not 300 %.

Quote:
not bad for an old and not optimized emulator :)


Without doubt. That should be enough for most non-3D demanding games - if the emulator is stable and compatible enough.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-May-2014 12:39:19
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@pavlor

Yes , the best emulator for Mac was the Guest PC it was gaving good performance on 3d emulated game because it was using the Voodoo video board direct like was native .
But was discontinued and the Virtual Pc never was updated for use 3d or gl :(
Same as the Qemu no 3d just the vmware video svga but the overall performance of this emulator in not kvm is crappy compared Vpc or the old guestpc for play 3d games just for fun.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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pavlor 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-May-2014 12:49:34
#45 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:
Same as the Qemu no 3d just the vmware video svga but the overall performance of this emulator in not kvm is crappy compared Vpc or the old guestpc for play 3d games just for fun.


Exactly. Pentium II 350 MHz class performance on Core i5 is rather low result (I use old QEMU 0.8.2, newer versions are a little bit faster, but behave strange on my system). Still enough for old Windows95 games not compatible with Windows 7 (like Dungeon Keeper).
For 3D demanding old games that dont work on Windows 7 I use VirtualBox with Windows XP (good eg. for Master of Orion 3, but not useable for Morrowind - 3D speed is OK, loading times of locations are too long).

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-May-2014 12:58:00
#46 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@pavlor

i m lucky i finally found guest pc ... on a cn server.... 1.3kb/s download time 54 minutes :P I have a new toy for play :D :D (hope)

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-May-2014 13:35:03
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@pavlor

this are the real Qemu 2.0 Performances

 photo qemu_zps9c4b7723.jpg







Quake 320x200 = 7.5 fps ...

ORRIBLE!

Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 01:36 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 01:35 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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pavlor 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-May-2014 14:17:20
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Use DHRY2OD to get better values (ND has no optimalizations). I expect you could get around 150-200 DMIPS. 46 DMIPS in DHRY2ND is similar to Pentium 166 MHz.


Quote:
Quake 320x200 = 7.5 fps ...


CPU seems to be fast enough, maybe GFX slows it down.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-May-2014 16:10:30
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@pavlor

Mips 113.55 (Qemu-system-i386 2.0) Vs 1175 of VirtualPC is 1/10 of performances


Ps: i found on trick with virtual pc under windows 95
Quake time demo demo2 320x200 = 98.4 fps
Quake time demo demo 2 640x480= 54.4 fps

The cpu information is different compared the other on other systems i found pentium II class here is Virtualcpu
I think it was the original Insinia cpu make for the old Virtual Pc and was really performance boost

The AmigaOne Xe g4 933 with Quake at 640x480 in software rendering gave me 47 fps and


Really Not Bed!

edit : i had been installed Homeworld e Unreal e Alien Vs Predator and are full playable in software rendering dx too...now i will try something more heavy :P

Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 06:20 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 06:17 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 04:32 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 04:21 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 04:20 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 04:15 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 18-May-2014 at 04:12 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-May-2014 19:13:03
#50 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1373
From: Italia

@tlosm

and DOSbox or other systems how it works?

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pavlor 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-May-2014 19:55:02
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@tlosm

Quote:
Mips 113.55 (Qemu-system-i386 2.0) Vs 1175 of VirtualPC is 1/10 of performances


113 DMIPS in DHRY2OD? Still low (Pentium 100 performance).

Quote:
edit : i had been installed Homeworld e Unreal e Alien Vs Predator and are full playable in software rendering dx too...now i will try something more heavy :P


Good Luck! It can be hard to find decent game supporting software rendering.

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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-May-2014 21:48:37
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1373
From: Italia

@pavlor

there are other games that run in software mode: Descent Freespace, Wing Commander Prophecy

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 19-May-2014 5:16:28
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2357
From: Amiga land

@pavlor

i say before the performance of qemu are worst compared the other pc software commercial in the Mac ppc scene.
Form:
RealPC , GuestPc, Softwindows and VirtualPc i can say the best are Real and Virtual. I will make only another test will try the old macos 9 pc emulator under shapeshaver and check there overall performances

Yes i know it is hard , i Will try to find some wrapper like glide wrapper and test there, in any way is just for fun for play i have my consoles included ps4 ;)

Last edited by tlosm on 19-May-2014 at 08:57 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 19-May-2014 at 07:59 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32; A4k.
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
AmigaOne X5000/40 16GB

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fishy_fis 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 19-May-2014 17:24:26
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1739
From: Australia

Wow, those framerates are horrid. Using my 6-7 year old amithlon box I get roughly 120fps in quake using software rendering @640x480. Even pc-task, running on an emulated 68k cpu gives better framerates than those quoted from qemu running native on a g5.

Slightly off topic, but relevant to the thread Ive recently managed to get qemu to run inside Dosbox on AROS. Given its virtualisation its actually pretty nippy (Dosbox on x86 AROS is probably 10x as fast as equivalent ppc system).

A quick list of some of the emulators Ive ported to amigaoid systems:

Dosbox.
Bochs.
Atari800.
SGCube (gamecube emu)
Handy.
InfoNES.
PC-Emu.
Hatari.
Dgen.
Sim80.
Neopop.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 19-May-2014 at 05:33 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 19-May-2014 at 05:27 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 19-May-2014 at 05:26 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 19-May-2014 18:18:47
#55 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

Quote:
(Dosbox on x86 AROS is probably 10x as fast as equivalent ppc system).


Dynamic CPU core in DosBox is cca 4x faster than normal CPU core. Gives similar result as non-accellerated/virtualised QEMU on Core i5 of my brother.

Quote:
but relevant to the thread Ive recently managed to get qemu to run inside Dosbox on AROS


For DOS or something more interesting?
What speed you get? I estimate 486DX performance at best.

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mailman2 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 19-May-2014 18:42:39
#56 ]
Member
Joined: 6-Mar-2011
Posts: 33
From: Unknown

Quote:
Dosbox on x86 AROS is probably 10x as fast as equivalent ppc system


There is no doubt that VirtualBox on Windows is 10 times faster than Dosbox on x86 AROS on the same pc.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 19-May-2014 19:23:59
#57 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1739
From: Australia

@pavlor

Its significantly more than that. You cant use cpu cycles as any sort of indicator. It simply doesnt work that way (Ive seen you use this as a point of reference many times)
As for qemu virtualization under dosbox, even on my piece o' crap athlon64 x2 aros laptop virtualised qemu speed is something akin to a p200 (dosbox adds another 50% or so).
And no, its not restricted to dos or win9x by the way. MMU and FPU emulation are the biggest obstacles once you add win32 pe loader.
Seriously though that i5 of your brother sounds awful. Your benchmark figures are always orders of magnitude slower than what I experience on my core2 systems let alone my own i5, and thats a laptop. The i7 blitzes that mac?hine as well.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 19-May-2014 at 07:49 PM.
Last edited by fishy_fis on 19-May-2014 at 07:34 PM.

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fishy_fis 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 19-May-2014 19:27:26
#58 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1739
From: Australia

@mailman2

Of course virtualisation when utilizing more than one core is going to be much faster than emulation on one core. Was there a point other than stating the obvious?

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pavlor 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 19-May-2014 20:04:59
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@fishy_fis

Quote:
Your benchmark figures are always orders of magnitude slower than what I experience on my core2 systems let alone my own i5, and thats a laptop


Im always rather conservative in my estimates.

Quote:
virtualised qemu speed is something akin to a p200 (dosbox adds another 50% or so).


Virtualised means it uses virtualisation features of QEMU (similar to native speed, DosBox speed in this case), or it uses plain dynamic recompilation of QEMU (that would be 486DX I wrote above)?

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fishy_fis 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 19-May-2014 20:35:44
#60 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1739
From: Australia

@pavlor

Its also possible to Virtualize without PAE or NX. Doing so (ergo losing accelerated virtualization)gives the user performance somewhere between a dynamic emulation and .what people nowadays call Virtualisation. Qemu offers this, ergo pretty reasonable performance.

Slightly off topic, but damn, OS4 hardware just seems more extortionate all the time. Seems its performance is struggling to keep up with these sorts of systems (none of which are high end) when said systems are also dealing with multiple layers of emulation, and theyre more expensive to boot.People talk of an Apple tax at times, but even Apples overpriced systems are value in comparison. None of this a revelation, but this thread really does highlight it.

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