@olegil

E500mc is 32bit only, lacks some newer instructions that have been introduced in e5500 snd e6500 and the FPU is said to twice faster on the e5500 core.

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@KimmoK

I think that A-Eon avoid the P5010 to keep from a single core product that would
overlap Acube's single core products. The P3041 them becomes the third choice
for Cyrus .

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@olegil

Only 32bit and yet another "new" core (&SoC) to support.

I would love to see the focus to go to 64bit chips from low to high end. (one day we need those gigabytes of RAM anyway (tm))

Last edited by KimmoK on 14-Jul-2014 at 01:43 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

would then 68k software (32bit) still work? Otherwise you would have to use UAE but then there is no advantage to AROS. It is certainly possible to execute 32bit software on 64bit (like on Windows) but it is not easy to program (I think I read about that on aros-related forums). Because of that you would need 64bit compiled software on aros for the 64bit version. But that is not possible with 68k software and propably for many older PPC software (without sources).

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Jul-2014 at 01:48 PM.

@KimmoK

I don't think the CPU core is the hardest part to get support for, considering, the SATA drivers, PCIe, USB, Ethernet is what seams to take the longest time to get support for.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Yes, core is not the hardest part. SATA, PCIe etc. SoC features might need extra work with P3041 vs P50xx.

@Olaf

One day we must anyway break the 32bit barrier. (over the Hyperion extmem2 consept I mean)

It's up to the OS & HAL gurus to find the simplest way, for example by using HW assistance (virtualization/partitioning etc) to minimize the SW work. Ideally we should be able to run 32bit and 64 bit apps at the same time.

Last edited by KimmoK on 14-Jul-2014 at 02:04 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@OlafS25

Quote:

would then 68k software (32bit) still work?

Yes, it should if you look at other 64bit operating systems, Windows7 64bit can run 32bit programs,
MacOSX 64bit can run 32bit programs, a Linux 64bit kernel can run be used with 32bit ubuntu iso.

PaSemi PA6T is 64bit CPU, running in 32bit mode when booting AmigaOS4.1, you can use 68K software with that.

Quote:

Otherwise you would have to use UAE

There are not that many interesting 68k programs to use in 2014.

Quote:

but then there is no advantage to AROS.

There are most defiantly things AmigaOS4 can do that AROS can't and versa versa.
I really don't understand your need to promote AROS in every thread, about AmigaOS4.1.

Quote:

It is certainly possible to execute 32bit software on 64bit (like on Windows)

So you answering your own question.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

I did not "promote" it I only mentioned it because it is the only one that exists in 64bit or is there a AmigaOS 64bit version I am not aware of? And on this "I am not allowed to mention platform" ( ) you can only run X86 compiled software on X86 and X64 software on X64 version (if there would be any). And if you would read my post carefully (what you obviously not did) you would see that I talked about 68k software integration there. Of course if you think that you do not need it why do AmigaOS developer not drop 68k compatibility at all and make a bigger jump in features?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 14-Jul-2014 at 02:07 PM.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Petunia was written in PPC assembler, can it work under 64bit OS?

Even so, 68K emulation is the way to go. UAE is the most compatible solution anyway

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

Petunia was written in PPC assembler, can it work under 64bit OS?

most of this CPU's are Hybrids, it does not matter if MC680x0 is translated into PowerPC 32bit programs, it just means that it needs to be handled like any other 32bit PowerPC program.

There is no benefit to using 64bit instructions, because the MC680x0 registers are 32bit anyway.

(Going from 32bit to 64bit is not like going from PowerPC to ARM or Intel).

Quote:

Even so, 68K emulation is the way to go. UAE is the most compatible solution anyway

There are not that many interesting 68k programs to use anyway.
Old games I have played before 100 times before, old programs that does not do what I need the programs to do in 2014.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2014 at 02:09 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Jul-2014 at 02:15 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

I am not sure of the difference between PPC32 and PPC64 instruction sets, whether they're closer or more like x86 and x64, that's why I asked.

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@WolfToTheMoon

"I am not sure of the difference between PPC32 and PPC64 instruction sets, whether they're closer or more like x86 and x64, that's why I asked. "

As far as I see it PPC was originally designed to have upgrade path from 32bit to 64bit.
Also, therefore going from 32bit to 64bit was nothing spectacular in PPC world.

x86 was designed in the era of 8bit, so bringing it to 32bit must have been insane nightmare already.
With the introduction of x64, register amounts were increased etc., so to me that looked like much bigger jumb (and gives also some performance boost vs x86).

_________________
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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

I am not sure of the difference between PPC32 and PPC64 instruction sets

its not limited to PPC32 vs PPC64.

Some small differences between different generation of CPU models exists, when cpu get a illegal instruction hit, then this are emulated by the OS, not unlike how its done on MC68060 when you run a program with some instruction it does not have.

Some CPU's have some special instructions like “ISEL”, I really wanted to use that one, when I wrote some PowerPC assembler.

Its bit like how this works in C code.
x=(istrue ? 1 : 2);

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Jul-2014 at 02:41 PM.

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@thread

The Freescale 64 bit parts also support 32 bit code. Details are in this spec.

Note that the Freescale ppc64 parts implement 'book E' (for Embedded).

I am amazed at the discussion that is taking place in this forum...
One the the insights that I got to some time ago: The ISA does not matter. What matters is the ecosystem. My latest insight: Compute is free -- data is not.

Cheers -- Ronald

@RonaldGadget

What is your experience with T4240, how fast is it?

Are you thinking about changing to ARM v8 now that they are slowly starting to become available? Or maybe something like Knights Landing from Intel?

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@WolfToTheMoon

Arm does not have anything to offer. Perhaps thunder x is out in 3 years, but then there is 40v core ppc as well...

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Applied Micro is offering X-Gene gen1 - 8 ARM v8 cores at 2.4 GHz.
AMD will offer their ARM v8 chip next year that will have the same socket as some of their x64 CPUs.
Cavium is offering up to 48 ARM v8 cores with their ThunderX CPUs.

The problem for Freescale is that there isn't anything new and substantionally more powerful than e6500 in their future roadmap. And it just isn't cheap, fast or energy efficient enough to compete with new x86/64 cores. ARM is still not big in that market.

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@WolfToTheMoon

T4240 is already faster than coming 8core arms.
(so far PPC is more proven in multicore & server & high performance computing use,
for example in coremark ARM delivers 20% of what PPC can do.)
(A57 core looks better (than e6500) in single core & single thread test, but not in multicore/multithread config)
(1.5 years ago T4240 had 3x better coremark/watt ratio than for example intell, 1.4x better than MIPS)

Thunder x might be competitive but it's only in paper so far.
(Thunder X is the first to use ARM technology capable to handle more than 8 cores,
cavium has not yet been able to match freescale in some high performance aspects
but it's obvious that they are dead serious now with thunder x, let's see how they manage.
And I'm not yet sure if their ARM core is binary compatible with the rest, etc...)

Freescale has 20xe6500 coming and a new core. (update, fc -> name)

Update, readings... table2.2 on this PDF gives hints of what are good cores for high performance computing (like in DOME).

Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Jul-2014 at 01:12 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Jul-2014 at 01:02 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Jul-2014 at 09:33 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Jul-2014 at 08:38 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 15-Jul-2014 at 07:19 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Quote:

Fc has 20xe6500 coming and a new core.

Fc???

_________________
retired

@AmigaBlitter

FreesCale, hehe & LOL.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?