Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6071 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
16 crawler(s) on-line.
 144 guest(s) on-line.
 1 member(s) on-line.


 Gunnar

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 Gunnar:  1 min ago
 zipper:  8 mins ago
 Templario:  14 mins ago
 NutsAboutAmiga:  28 mins ago
 RobertB:  33 mins ago
 GPTNederlands:  49 mins ago
 janelancy:  50 mins ago
 -Sam-:  58 mins ago
 OlafS25:  1 hr 41 mins ago
 pixie:  1 hr 42 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
PosterThread
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 1-Sep-2014 2:52:11
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12795
From: Norway

@Hypex

Windows2000/XP/7/8 use NTFS as primary FS. The best programs out there is not made by Microsoft, like it was back in 80 and 90's. Only problem is that you don't always know what you get when you install some thing from some one else, so mutch adware and repackaging. Before you know it you have installed some spy-ware or ad-ware.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Sep-2014 at 03:03 AM.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
itix 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 1-Sep-2014 9:31:17
#22 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Hypex

What repair tools your AmigaOne had to repair this filesystem?

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 1-Sep-2014 16:14:47
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@NutsAboutAmiga

On C volume NTFS would be used, yes, but not on the flash drives I use for sharing. I'd be quite upset if I payed to install adware.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 1-Sep-2014 16:17:12
#24 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@itix

Sorry, in what context? For FAT or other? I had no repair tool for FAT on my AmigaOne.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
logicalheart 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 1-Sep-2014 18:01:13
#25 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Dec-2003
Posts: 696
From: Sandy, Utah. USA

@Ancalimon

I've been using FFS on my hard disks for 7 years with no problem. I use it on my AmigaOne, Sam440, Sam460, and X1000. I'm only using 80 GB drives, but don't know if that matters.

_________________
http://www.hostcove.com
http://www.youtube.com/hostcove
Sam460 : X1000 : X5000

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Ancalimon 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 5:13:30
#26 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 433
From: Istanbul

@logicalheart

It doesn't matter. fastfilesystem is designed for floppy disks. Being not suitable for harddrives does not mean being unreliable.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 7:31:56
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Ancalimon

AFAIK FAT was also designed for floppy disk, but that didn't stop it being used as a main filesystem before NTFS replaced it. And now it still hasn't gone away because the world decided to infect the portable media that replaced the floppy with FAT even today!

Even so, despite where FFS came from, what things would be bad about it using it for a HD?

Last edited by Hypex on 02-Sep-2014 at 04:34 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olsen 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 10:08:59
#28 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 774
From: Germany

@Ancalimon

Quote:

Ancalimon wrote:
@logicalheart

It doesn't matter. fastfilesystem is designed for floppy disks. Being not suitable for harddrives does not mean being unreliable.

Actually, the FFS was specifically designed for hard disk use.

The original file system was designed for floppy disk use: each data block (= the contents of each file) stored contained a checksum so that errors could be detected. If you wanted to read from a file, the file system would have to read each data block in sequence, verify the checksum and copy the data block payload to the client buffer. Not only was the floppy disk slow to read, the file system spent additional time on processing the file data.

The data block checksums were removed in the FFS disk format, which made reading the file data much faster. If the data blocks to read/write were stored in sequence, the FFS could access them in a consecutive operation, using the disk controller's DMA, and not spend extra time verifying the checksums and copying the data block payload to the client buffer.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olsen 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 10:30:23
#29 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 774
From: Germany

@Hypex

Quote:

Even so, despite where FFS came from, what things would be bad about it using it for a HD?

In two words: poor scalability.

The amount of bookkeeping work which the FFS needs to do in addition to the task at hand (reading a file, writing a file, finding or creating a directory entry) increases at a faster rate than the size of the volume increases.

Also, the amount of bookkeeping data needed in addition to the data being managed in on-disk structures, increases at the same rate as the size of the volume increases, which is bad, too.

Last edited by olsen on 02-Sep-2014 at 10:51 AM.
Last edited by olsen on 02-Sep-2014 at 10:47 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Chris_Y 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 11:31:13
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2003
Posts: 3203
From: Beds, UK

@olsen

Quote:

Actually, the FFS was specifically designed for hard disk use.


And just to add to that, it was (AFAIK) impossible to use FFS on floppy disks until AmigaOS 2.04 - yet v1.3 supported it on HD.

_________________
"Miracles we do at once, the impossible takes a little longer" - AJS on Hyperion
Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Nibunnoichi 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 11:46:55
#31 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 969
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote:
@Ancalimon
ADFAIK FAT was also designed for floppy disk, but that didn't stop it being used as a main filesystem before NTFS replaced it. And now it still hasn't gone away because the world decided to infect the portable media that replaced the floppy with FAT even today!

I believe you're confusing things by using a too generic nomenclature
FAT and FAT12 (and their ancestor) were designed for floppy usage. FAT16 already supported harddiscs in fact IIRC it debuted with one of the first HD equipped IBMs.
What you see in use today are FAT32 and exFAT, a bit different, they became a sort of de-facto standard because they were the only for which any OS has/had at least read capabilities.

Last edited by Nibunnoichi on 02-Sep-2014 at 11:47 AM.

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
olsen 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 11:48:50
#32 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 15-Aug-2004
Posts: 774
From: Germany

@Chris_Y

Quote:

Chris_Y wrote:
@olsen

Quote:

Actually, the FFS was specifically designed for hard disk use.


And just to add to that, it was (AFAIK) impossible to use FFS on floppy disks until AmigaOS 2.04 - yet v1.3 supported it on HD.

You could use it, but "some assembly" was required And if you did manage to use it on floppy disks, the FFS would not detect media changes because that type of functionality was not needed for hard disk drives. If I remember correctly, the FFS also used a shorter spindown interval for flushing written data to disk than the original file system, which ironically could result in worse write performance.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 16:39:18
#33 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Chris_Y

That's right. I had these FFS formatted floppies that came up as NDOS. I had to create a mountlist but it was still messy. Perhaps no more than CrossDOS sharing a mount on the same drive.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hypex 
Re: Harddrive validating like a mad man. FFS vs SFS vs PPS
Posted on 2-Sep-2014 16:41:06
#34 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 11180
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Nibunnoichi

That's exactly my point. All obviously had their roots in the orginal FAT. FFS had its roots in the OFS.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle