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      /  Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
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Deniil715 
Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 11:27:41
#1 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

Yeah, I'm sooo tired of winsuck and all its scanning and "optimizing" and bullshit which makes any machine crawl. And my grildfriend's winXP laptop has come to an end and she needs a new one, but what should she have?

I'm thinking Macbook Air or maybe Pro Retina, but I'm not sure since they are expensive. She has an iPhone but no real experience with MacOS.

The target criteria is roughly this:
- There will be no new computer purchase for many years. (10+ years since last time.)
- No gaming.
- She tends to never close anything while working, i.e. needs a lot of RAM.
- Mostly web pages and cost/health and office programs.
- Would be nice if it could be the primary photo/video storage.
- Light and not too big so it can be carried easily to work.

With this in mind I think something with a Core i5 should be enough CPU-wise. It should have 8GB of RAM, especially if it is a Mac since then I will install VirtualBox for her to migrate easily.

SSD is nice, fast and quiet, but since it should store photos/videos it needs to be at least 256GB.

I'd like to hear your options and ideas.

Myself I can only get down to either
1. Macbook Air/Pro with 8GB/256GB Core i5 that just works.
2. Any (but which?!?) Win8 machine with touch screen and slightly more power and slightly less price. But it has to be durable! Can't be all cheap plastic and fall apart.

Either way she needs to learn a new system, coming from winXP. Did I mention I hate windows?

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joeled 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 11:45:27
#2 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2007
Posts: 724
From: Uppsala, Sweden

@Deniil715

I can never understand how people can manage to get Win7 or Win8 to crawl? What the hell are people installing on it? I would suggest a win8 computer and let an experienced win7/8 user install the system from a dvd-rom instead of using the bloatware that comes with the computer.

Win7 is an excellent system to jump to from XP.

Quote:
Did I mention I hate windows?

Yeah, i feel the same about apple and all their hardware,

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marko 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 11:54:24
#3 ]
Super Member
Joined: 17-Dec-2007
Posts: 1816
From: Gothenburg, THE front side of Sweden ;), (via Finland), EU

@Deniil715

Avoid (crappy) Win8 and install Windows 7.

Avoid Mac and buy a Win laptop, you get more for the same amount of money, the computer is for your gf so you won't be using it much (right ).

Last edited by marko on 20-Aug-2014 at 11:58 AM.
Last edited by marko on 20-Aug-2014 at 11:54 AM.

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Spirantho 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 11:54:55
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2004
Posts: 1044
From: Aberystwyth, Wales

@joeled

My Asus Windows 7 (x64) laptop is crawling at the moment. I've never installed very much on it at all, compared to most people. It's just the combination of a slow hard disk (not actually slow, but slow compared to a desktop 7200rpm and MUCH slower than an SSD), a virus checker (AVG Free), and lots and lots of Windows updates.

I'm going to get an SSD for mine, it's the only way short of a re-install to keep it usable. Currently when I resume the laptop from hibernation, Windows' system handlers chew up ALL the CPU time for ages. It's OK when it's settled down, but that can take many minutes from start-up.

In my experience Windows has always made itself crawl no matter how careful you are - unless you have an SSD, which these days is a no-brainer.

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joeled 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 12:05:24
#5 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2007
Posts: 724
From: Uppsala, Sweden

@Spirantho

Quote:
My Asus Windows 7 (x64) laptop is crawling at the moment. I've never installed very much on it at all, compared to most people. It's just the combination of a slow hard disk (not actually slow, but slow compared to a desktop 7200rpm and MUCH slower than an SSD), a virus checker (AVG Free), and lots and lots of Windows updates.


Always use SSD and not slow 5400RPM as your harddisk. Its better to have a small and fast SSD with win7 or win8. If you need bigger harddisk aim for an aextra usb 3.0 harddisk.

Quote:
and lots and lots of Windows updates.

You know that you can turn that off if its bothering you?

Quote:
Currently when I resume the laptop from hibernation, Windows' system handlers chew up ALL the CPU time for ages. It's OK when it's settled down, but that can take many minutes from start-up.


I never use that myself or at work. I always configure it to be disabled for all the employees.

Quote:
In my experience Windows has always made itself crawl no matter how careful you are - unless you have an SSD, which these days is a no-brainer.


Well, i havent had that experience but i always try to buy quality stuff when it comes to hardware whatever it may be. SSD speeds things up.

Last edited by joeled on 20-Aug-2014 at 12:06 PM.

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TheMaskedMuchacho 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 12:22:33
#6 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Feb-2006
Posts: 341
From: Unknown

@Deniil715

Lenovo U530 Touch is a pretty durable little laptop that seems to meet your requirements except that you can't specify it with an SSD, it comes with a 500gb hybrid drive (mechanical drive with SSD cache) that is a good compromise between space and speed but it has a free M2 slot that you could add an SSD to or you could quite easily replace the hybrid drive yourself.

If you do go with windows 8.1 you should consider installing classic shell to get a start menu and ease the transition from XP. Windows 8.1 is actually a pretty decent OS (for windows) once you give it a chance and for most people, should be easy to adapt to if you restore the start menu with classic shell (it's free).

@Spirantho

if windows is running slow after a while and many updates you could try running CCleaner, it removes unneeded, useless files and can clear a lot of junk from the windows registry (this can be risky but I have never heard of CCleaner causing any problems and have had none myself)

I use it on my own PC and run it on PCs when i'm asked to look at them by others because of issues.

The best practices to keep windows running well (if you can ever say it runs well) is to scan regullarly for Malware with Malwarebytes, clean the crap with CCleaner and defrag with MyDefrag.

MyDefrag can help a lot even though recent versions of windows are not supposed to require de-fragmentation, you should run system disk monthly first on your boot drive, on an old installation it can make a huge difference. I use Mydefrag on any system I build now that has a mechanical drive as it can make a nice difference even to a fresh install.

Last edited by TheMaskedMuchacho on 20-Aug-2014 at 12:33 PM.

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paolone 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 12:54:07
#7 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 1143
From: Unknown

@Deniil715

If the aim of your gf's next computer is mainly for work, then the Mac would definitely NOT be a wise choice. If you need a durable, serious but maybe not really affordable notebook, go for a mid-range Lenovo Thinkpad one (just avoid the most cheap ones, since you would have to deal with low resolution screens and plastic, lots of plastic, durable but always plastic you don't want).

If you need a fast drive but you're scared by SSD prices and low capacity, you can go for a hybrid HDD: it would give you some spin without loosing the space. Problem would be, in any case, finding a on-the-shelves notebook already mounting such a device. Please also remember that changing the drive would void your warranty. If you have to choose between SSD and HDD, go for the SSD, possibily starting from 240 GB or more. Never take 60-128 GB models because they generally have lower write speeds.

After all, if you're moving from a 10+ years old PC, it would hardly have bigger hard drives anyway, your gf should already be quite accustomed to little storage space.

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itix 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 13:15:33
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

Lenovo Thinkpad is okay but their drivers are mediocre. I have one from my employer and it has three flaws:

* unplugging USB massstorage devices can render all USB ports unusable
* it cant always recover from hibernation (just blank screen)
* its NVidia display driver is crap and crashes sometimes

Luckily Windows 7 can recover from NVidia driver issue automatically. When I had XP on it I had to reboot. My colleagues are also having issues with hibernation which apparently does not work properly on any Lenovo. Also shaking laptop can wake it up from hibernation. And sometimes when it enters hibernation mode it wakes up again if you close lid while hibernating :)

Other than that it is OK. I have been using it four years now and it has been used in harsh conditions.

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itix 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 13:23:50
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Deniil715

Btw I would also consider buying her a tablet, like iPad or Galaxy Tab. It is not so good for productivity programs (there are good word processors though) but it is easy to carry around, has good browsing capability and you dont have to close any programs. Depending on a model she can store all her photos and movies there.

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BrianK 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 14:18:55
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Deniil715

I contend that 'no new computer purchase for many years' is a criteria you should discard. The rest of the needs listed - storage for photos/video, office, and webpages - can all be served fairly well by the Cloud. Google Docs or Office 365 can do all of that.

I used to be of a mind to spend $2K for a laptop. In the end it lasted 3-4 years and I did it again. Turns out 90% of my computer needs can be served with a lightweight and low cost system. I've made due with a $400 Dell Venue 8 and now rely on the Cloud for the data and programs.

The Cloud is doing well and I expect in the future few years it'll be a fully featured, and perhaps more, than the model of install the software on the laptop that we've all come to know and love.

Weighing even more heavily the 'light' if you use the Cloud you could get to a $200-$300 Google Chromebook. Also, to compete Microsoft has been working to get out some $200-$300 Windows 8 laptops as well. HP Stream 14 is one of the new ones on the way. And since your girlfriend is used to working with iOS there would be the option of the various Apple iPads. A bit more expensive but very lightweight.

...
I think the question is one of spending for the household. Do you get a great lightweight laptop ($1,200 for the Mac Airbook) and keep it 4 years. Or switch to a $300 lightweight laptop with the power of the Cloud behind it and plan in 18 months to do it again. (Heck if it's working fine you wouldn't have to even get a new one.)

That's right in my home data is the value and computing hardware is now a low cost easily replaceable commodity.

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Kremlar 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 14:38:40
#11 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2010
Posts: 108
From: Milford, MA

Quote:
I can never understand how people can manage to get Win7 or Win8 to crawl? What the hell are people installing on it? I would suggest a win8 computer and let an experienced win7/8 user install the system from a dvd-rom instead of using the bloatware that comes with the computer.


Existing bloatware, crap installed by user, people don't know how to maintain Windows, poor hardware (low RAM, slow 5400rpm hard drive, etc.).


Quote:
Avoid (crappy) Win8 and install Windows 7.


I'd highly recommend Windows 8.1.


Quote:
a virus checker (AVG Free)


Newer versions of AVG are horrible and will slow you way down.


Quote:
Always use SSD and not slow 5400RPM as your harddisk. Its better to have a small and fast SSD with win7 or win8. If you need bigger harddisk aim for an aextra usb 3.0 harddisk.


YES! My travel notebook is an ASUS Celeron with 4GB RAM and a Crucial SSD and it FLIES for normal home/office use.

If you have any technical ability at all, do yourself a favor and if you buy a system with a hard drive swap it with an SSD.


Quote:
MyDefrag can help a lot even though recent versions of windows are not supposed to require de-fragmentation


Defrags are part of regularly scheduled Windows maintenance. This is disabled if Windows detects you have an SSD. Don't defrag an SSD.


Quote:
If you need a fast drive but you're scared by SSD prices and low capacity, you can go for a hybrid HDD


My experience with the Seagate hybrids is that they are pretty much garbage. Not much of a real world performance gain, and failure rate was higher than traditional hard drive. I only used a dozen or so, though, and it was a couple of years back.


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Deniil715 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 15:21:33
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 4236
From: Sweden

@TheMaskedMuchacho

Thanks for the tools, I'll try those.

@itix

I've also had issues with Lenovo but this I have now works fine with hibernation and USB.

We talked about a tablet, but this thing would have to be her main computer so I adviced against it, except for the Surface Pro which is basically a laptop without a keyboard. However, since I got fired from M$ we decided to drop that shit and get something real instead.

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bison 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 15:54:38
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 2112
From: N-Space

@Deniil715

My standard advice when asked: if you're computer savvy, run Linux on generic x86 hardware; if you're not, then Apple OS X is the way to go. Thinkpads are nice with Linux, but with Windows you won't make it out of Suckville. Software is a lot more important than hardware.

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TheMaskedMuchacho 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 16:16:01
#14 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Feb-2006
Posts: 341
From: Unknown

@Kremlar

Quote:
Defrags are part of regularly scheduled Windows maintenance. This is disabled if Windows detects you have an SSD. Don't defrag an SSD.



I know not to use defrag on SSDs, I was advising based on using a 5400rpm drive in a laptop. The built in windows defrag is OK but MyDefrag can do a much better job, it actually reorganises the position of files on the disk to help boot faster and launch programs a bit quicker. I have always been sceptical of defrag software but I discovered this about 2 years ago and gave it a try on a netbook that I had installed a very slow ipod hard disk in and it made quite an improvement so have tried it an a few systems that were running really badly along with CCleaner, Malwarebytes and uninstalling a lot of unneeded bloatware, it has saved some computers that the owner thought they needed to bin and buy a new one because it was running so slow and can get windows pretty close to performing like it did when first installed, better in some cases with tons of OEM bloatware.

As for anti virus software, I stick with Microsoft security essentials, it's good enough and very light on system resources compared to most others so should do fine. It's integrated into windows 8 and is part of windows defender but you have to download it separately for windows 7.

Last edited by TheMaskedMuchacho on 20-Aug-2014 at 04:18 PM.

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tomazkid 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 16:25:04
#15 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@Deniil715

Have tested both Macbook Pro and Asus Zenbook lately, touch screen and dual SSD, 4k SEK cheaper, both with I7 cpu and both 15 inch screen.

Asus with Win8 felt faster, than Macbook with OSX, as well as the Macbook did not have touchscreen. You got more periferals with ASUS, like TJ-45 connector built into a nifty flip out, Macbook did not have TJ-45 connector at all.
You had to buy it extra, if you wanted to connect to wired network.
(Considering the Macbook cost so much more, that is really cheapskate behaviour by Apple, to not include the adaptor for wired networking.)
Both have metal cases, so not much difference there.

The ASUS is durable, got a few of those here at work, all have worked well in company use.

Last edited by tomazkid on 20-Aug-2014 at 04:27 PM.

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Kremlar 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 16:27:20
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2010
Posts: 108
From: Milford, MA

Quote:
As for anti virus software, I stick with Microsoft security essentials, it's good enough and very light on system resources compared to most others so should do fine. It's integrated into windows 8 and is part of windows defender but you have to download it separately for windows 7.


Agreed. If you're green enough to get infected with Security Essentials, you'll probably get bit no matter what you're running.

In as business environment, however, I do prefer something above and beyond.

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A1200 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 17:26:13
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 3087
From: Westhall, UK

X86 laptop running ubuntu or mint with libreoffice. Check chipset for drivers before buying.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 17:49:44
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

Any x86 notebook plus AEROS ; )
Lenovo is always good. Macbook Pro is not to overpriced but pricey (i5 unlike i5, i7 unlike i7 - please compare cpu model numbers before moaning about prices) and has a good quality.

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danwood 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 18:12:56
#19 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@Deniil715

To be honest I wouldn't suggest Windows for a general user these days either, it's big, complicated and needs constant maintenance, virus/malware protection and it's generally too confusing.

Looking at your requirements, a Mac wouldn't be a bad call if you have the money, maybe even an 11" Air which is light, fast and has an SSD.

You may also want to look at a Chromebook. I recently replaced my parent's laptop with a Chromebook after the 200th call to remove malware, junk etc. this year and crap that accumulated on Win 8 I got fed up, they only use it for the web and emails really so a Chromebook is perfect for that, instant on, securely backed up automatically, everything stored on the cloud.

I'd seriously give the Chromebook option a look-in if you don't get the Mac. But yeah, avoid Windows at all costs if you don't want to be on constant tech-support duty.

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Daedalus 
Re: Windows sucks, but what laptop for my girlfriend?
Posted on 20-Aug-2014 19:44:16
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@Deniil715

I'll weigh in with the Macbook Pro recommendation too. Unless your girlfriend is in need of such a high resolution, the older model of Macbook Pro is still available. It doesn't have Retina, but still has the optical drive, and it's the cheapest of all the Macbook Pros at €1149 (that's an Irish price, it's probably cheaper elsewhere) with a basic spec of 2.5GHz i5 and 4GB RAM. It can also be upgraded (2.9GHz i7, 8GB, SSD) but of course the price shoots up with those options.

My girlfriend switched to one of these 4 or 5 years ago (the Core2 Duo version) and absolutely swears by it. It hasn't missed a beat, and at the time a 7200rpm drive was available as an option which she got, and it's never felt sluggish. Of any laptop I see around at the moment, that's the one I'd put money on still working in 10 years. It took her a little while to get used to it, but really not that long at all and very quickly she decided she'd never buy a Windows computer again.

Yes, you can get a cheap laptop and replace it every couple of years, but personally that sounds like a lot of hassle. And would you really save that much money if a Macbook Pro will run trouble-free for many, many years?

I know some people don't like their hardware (or their OS for that matter), and I've come across dead Macs in my time too, but you run that risk with any manufacturer - if you pick any manufacturer at all, I bet I can find someone who says that company's hardware is nothing but trouble.

Good luck with it anyway, whichever route you choose

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