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      /  Do not buy from AmigaKit {RESOLVED]
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Mikey_C 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 8:16:48
#21 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 3060
From: Unknown

I take issue with your call to not buy from AmigaKit, I have always found them to be very good, provide excellent Customer service and ship in very quick time.

I would have absolutely no hesitation to recommend AmigaKit, their reputation should not be run into the ground undeservedly.

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Overflow 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:04:19
#22 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

Mikey_C said it well but;

Ive ordered from Jens directly, Veselia and Amigakit, and all quickly respond to mails or orders.
And they spend alot of time to reply on different forums to any queries people might have regarding the hardware/software they sell.
To me thats good customerservice, and a reason to keep them as my vendors.

And all Ive purchased is Classic related.

The conflicts i see arise seems to be intently constructed, thru hairsplitting and semantics of argument.
It reminds me of the discussions I had with real life amigan friends back in the 90s, where some had almost religious views concerning Amiga.

Last edited by Overflow on 27-Oct-2014 at 09:05 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:15:37
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Overflow

"religious views concerning Amiga."? Seems familiar to me

I say just "the only true amiga successor..."

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Bugala 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:23:41
#24 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 649
From: Finland

@Topic

Not sure if i understood right, but it seemed to me that Itix wasnt actually complaining about Amikits service regarding sales in any form. Hes point was that since Amiga.org is now owned by Amikit (Aeon i think?), hence since he feels he is being treated unfairly by amiga.org moderators (that could be compared to as being walmarts employees), he have hence decided not to buy anything from Amigakit anymore, nor endorse Amigakit to anyone.

Or by comparison as he himself pointed out. He might think that Walmart is the best shop in the whole wide world, he might think that all the stuff in Walmart are best, and bestest priced and it is solution to his every problem.
But then there is this employee who is very rude towards him, and despite all the good points of walmart, he decides to instead go buy from other store instead of walmart, because of this bad behaving walmart employee. And for this same reason he decides not to recommend other people to go buy from walmart either.

This at least how i understood from itix explanation here. He can correct me if i misunderstood it.

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andres 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:28:53
#25 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 329
From: Firenze (Italy)

I bought in the past from AmigaKit and my experience was very good.
I'll buy from them in the future instead.

I don't see much sense in these kind of topics.

Last edited by andres on 27-Oct-2014 at 09:30 AM.
Last edited by andres on 27-Oct-2014 at 09:29 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:34:34
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Kjmann

"his response (at least what I could ascertain) was to threaten to post his derogatory opinions about amiga kit in the public forums at A.org"

Even if he did, is it not allowed there to express a personal view in the public. That IS what all people guessed when it was taken over. And BTW you cannot supress views, there will be always channels where it gets in the public and you really do not help Amigakit by this (the opposite is truth). Good customer management is not censorship but answering to customers. Or is it different where you live?

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wawa 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:35:36
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

i dont know about amigakit service because i have not had an occasion to buy anything from them or deal with them otherwise. nevertheless this kjmann, who has appeard out of nowhere and have been stealthy allowed to moderate at a.org, has been on a rampage since some time already. but of course complaining about that would be moderated as well, abd pms or reports would lead to the effect you observe here.

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Overflow 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:38:07
#28 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@Bugala

You make a very good argument there, and one that I do apply to a certain extent in the "real world".
But if the conduct of a employee is less than helpful/even rude I would not dismiss the company as a whole, but rather
1) adress the employee in question
2) Ask to talk to the supervisor
3) If all fails and its a company Ive had positive dealings with in the past; escalate it to leader(s).

I would never let one or two bad apples put me off unless after some inspection I find that the whole basket has gone bad.

Ive found many of Itix's posts informative, but at the same token, he also got "sniping comments".
Maybe it is made tounge in cheek, but from my point of view a pattern emerges.

Ill freely admit that Ive been away from "amiga" for many many years, only recently taking intrest again, so there might be "past arguments" that Ive completely missed, that justifies the hostility that some display.

I just dont see it on a day to day basis when dealing with the few vendors that are around "Amiga Platform" today.

Last edited by Overflow on 27-Oct-2014 at 09:39 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:43:08
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@andres

that is not the question... there will be always people who are happy and some who are unhappy (rightful or not). The question is how you react on critics and how you treat them. To me mods that seem to think they act on behalf of commercial entities are wrong, even worse they damage the interest of the owners. Expressing views (expecially when you can name reasons) should not be censored in any case (except when violating laws). Banning someone because he pm his personal view is ... unbelievable... itix is noone you can blame to be a "troll" how some define and call others

That all leaves a bad taste and harms your "maters" too

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OlafS25 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 9:45:11
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Overflow

it seems he want to act in "name of his master"

he is harming the interests of amigakit too

I would f.e. never buy anything of Apple because I deeply dislike the company with their politics and the fanatism around them. It has nothing to do with the quality of products.

In this example there seem to be moderators who are acting on their own and think they must "protect the rights of the owners". When this becomes public (and everything becomes public) all think Amigakit is acting but they are perhaps not even knowing it. But all will blame Amigakit for it.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Oct-2014 at 09:55 AM.

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Overflow 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 10:14:48
#31 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@OlafS25

For the time being I dont blame Amigakit for anything.

I used to admin a forum xx years ago with other admins and moderators.

I was by far the most "agressive" admin, having very little patience with what I considered obvious trolls and posts that was constructed for "lolz" or CREATING destructive arguments.
Most of the other admins/moderators where very passive, not intrested in the workload to keep up with the threads and let the very few "troublemakers" run riot.
Ofcourse when I started giving out warnings and eventually moderated posts I got called out for being opressive etc. I knew for a fact (they said so themselves via chats and voice comms) that some just where doing it for fun and to see how far they could push the community before they got booted.
Tho several of them I still talk to and are on friendly terms with.

I should add it was a "gaming community", which might make some of you think "aaaah. that explains it!"

Then your comment about "name of his master". The Site admin was of the more diplomatic type, trying to be everyones friend, which just doesnt work at times.
Eventually I just said "ok, I got my style of moderation and points of view about the intent of the TOS. I wont let people hide behind TOS when it can be subverted. So either you let me moderate, find someone that will, or do it yourself".

And over the years I did see many people having difference of opinions (that might or might not agree with mine), but that doesnt matter ofcourse as long as people make good arguments in relativly friendly manner.
And there are differences in friendly pokes of fun, or comments made in gest/tounge in cheek and flat out negativity/trolling.

I should add that I personally are virtually impossible to offend and I have been part of forums that have 1 rule "there are no rules". As long as you enter a forum knowing that from the get go, then its fine.

This post was just a general comment, not nessicarily pertaining to the original poster.

Last edited by Overflow on 27-Oct-2014 at 10:16 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 10:27:42
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Overflow

Banning people because they PM a view that "might" not be shared by the moderator and because he "might" do something?

That is a misuse of power to me. I am moderating a forum too, it is programming related so certainly less demanding than forums like this or amiga.org but I would never censor someone because he is expressing his personal view. Exceptions are personal insults and attacking and violating laws. I do see neither of this in this case

It seems to me there is a overzealous moderator there who is stressing the TOS. I do not directly blame amigakit or a-eon, I only blame them for making that person to moderator.

We have now 25 years of the falling wall here and in germany there are one of the most liberal laws of the world, there are reasons for that. Free speech is guaranteed by law. And as I already wrote, even if someone only thinks to act on behalv of someone it is striking back. I would recommend Amigakit to take care that the moderators are not overacting in their name. It would harm them.

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Aslak3 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 10:29:52
#33 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2012
Posts: 268
From: Southampton, UK

@Kjmann

If this is what passes for moderation around here, this place is doomed because ultimately only the fanatical users will remain.

My opioion of AmigaKit:

Great service when I bought my SAM machine. Would have been nice to know that I had a board with broken sound because I wouldn't have bought the machine if I'd known sound was buggered. Yes I probably could have returned it. My choice not too. But yeah I'd use em again if they stocked something I needed, though this is highly unlikely.

On the matter of AeonKit (nice name for new hybrid company huh?) Buying up community websites: the all eggs in one basket thing should be a massive concern for the users. This site's domain name is now an asset to a business, like it's stock. Or whatever. If it looks like it's not working out for the owners they can simply pull the plug, or sell it to the next owner. Or the company could go bankrupt and it end up being sold on. On top of this you have the bias that will surely appear in moderator behaviour, as evident by kjmann here.

If itix wants to protest this decision by advising people that they shouldn't be buying from AeonKit then he should be allowed to do so IMO, so long as he says why he thinks so in a polite manner. Otherwise, boy does it look like AeonKit have something to hide.

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Overflow 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 10:36:52
#34 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1628
From: Norway

@OlafS25

Yeah, as a norwegian I am very used to freedom of speech and everyone being accountable.
Noone is above critizism or audit.

Thats all well and fine. But sometimes "noise" is a hindrance to transferance of information.
Take Norwegian TV stations. To an increasing degree only intrested in the tabloid version of news, not letting the journalists dive deep into background of the topic/issue.
The times ive seen newsbroadcasts regarding my field of expertise, when an accident has happened or just the general reporting regarding the field, more often than not the newsitem contains flaws, false information or taken out of context.
Outlets are more intrested in asking uninformed people "how do you feel?" instead of asking someone that actually know a thing or two about the topic about the implications or what actually happened.

What does that have to do with this or other forums?
The noise for me is when I have to go thru 4 pages of accusations and counteraccusations based on feelings and rumours for every factual post. I guess it can be entertaining at times, but after a while it becomes tiresome and ultimatly a complete waste of time.

This is turning into a philosophical discussion.

My point is there are many facets to "freedom of speech".

The most obvious counterquestion "so, who decides what is productive for freedom of speech"; and I agree, its a difficult question.

Last edited by Overflow on 27-Oct-2014 at 10:47 AM.
Last edited by Overflow on 27-Oct-2014 at 10:38 AM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 10:47:07
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Overflow

I have looked at the moderator. It seems he is doing business in Atari 8-bit retro market and suddenly appeared on the surface a couple of months ago. As I understand it he is business partner of Amigakit. Is that enough to become moderator of a amiga site? Seems a really low qualification to me. Now he acts like a "business partner".

As I said the problem of customer relations is how you act on critics. And I think Amigakit is not directly ordering that but it strikes back on them because people think they are responsible as owners. That is the disadvantage of owning a public forum.

So again... I would recommend Amigakit to look carefully who is moderating for them otherwise it will become a problem for them.

And moderating a forum means you have rules behind them that are obvious and that has everyone to keep. You can call that "philosophical". If I think Amigakit and A-eon are trying to supress their views and trying to censor the community I would definitely not buy one of their products. I do not think that but they should look at whom they make to a moderator at their sites.

Thread indicating "business partner" of amigakit:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67929

Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Oct-2014 at 10:52 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 27-Oct-2014 at 10:50 AM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 10:57:56
#36 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote:
I told in private message to moderator KJMann that I dont want to buy from AmigaKit anymore and do not recommend that web store to anyone else. This is what I got as response:

Quote:

You have been banned for the following reason:
Threated to post bad things about the forum owners

Date the ban will be lifted: Never



But don't you see? You committed a thought crime! You were punished not for something you did, but because of something you thought of doing! It's the new deal, think unauthorized thoughts about AmigaKit, Aeon, Amiga.org or AmigaWorld.net (they are all one and the same thing after all), and your community life gets executed (banned). It doesn't matter that it was in a private, non-public communication. Your thoughts were simply erroneous and intolerable.

And I read this thread, and it strikes me how many reacts strongly not against the absurdity of you being banned only for something you thought of doing, no, what seems to upset people is that you had the "wrong" thoughts!



Quote:

itix wrote:
@NutsAboutAmiga

I did, and I said in private that I dont recommend anyone to buy from AmigaKit, and got banned. I dont know what was written back to me because I cant access PM there anymore.

And I am not asking to lift my ban. I never did. And I dont.


I completely understand that. And to be honest, that site isn't worthy your presence. Level-headed people with unique technical Amiga OS expertise isn't what they want anymore, now it's all about standing in lines cheering out the Big Brother gospel how everything is constantly improving and how good the AeonKit products are and how much of heroes Matt and Trevor are for making it all happen. Even this very thread is an example of this.

Most good people has already left for greener pastures, or have been banned ("executed") already, so it's not like you won't miss out on anything.



I suppose that picture should have had another logo in the loop:



They apparently took over the site in silence several months ago already. Nice of them to tell us anything about it at all. Heh..

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Vistaus 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 10:59:37
#37 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2013
Posts: 332
From: Unknown

@Mikey_C

Exactly my thoughts, Mike. AmigaKit excells in nice customer service *and* very, very fast order processing/shipping. There are a lot of web stores that can learn from them on that part. I will definetly order from AmigaKit again and wholeheartedly recommend them :)

Last edited by Vistaus on 27-Oct-2014 at 10:59 AM.

_________________
Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 11:07:11
#38 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 1204
From: Unknown

@Mikey_C

Quote:

Mikey_C wrote:
I take issue with your call to not buy from AmigaKit, I have always found them to be very good, provide excellent Customer service and ship in very quick time.

I would have absolutely no hesitation to recommend AmigaKit, their reputation should not be run into the ground undeservedly.



IMO it's the only right thing to do. You should never deal with people like this, you should walk miles around them.

And speaking to you, I must add that it's Double-Plus Ironic that your site "Amigans.net" -- whose entire purpose was to bring on Frontier Justice of the more oppressive kind -- now appears to be fair and tolerant in comparison. Double-Plus Funny that. Heh..

I must say that I don't recognize the "Amiga Community" anymore. It's being methodically destroyed. It's not funny anymore. Once upon a time, the Amiga was about fun. Now it all disgust me.

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OlafS25 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 11:08:28
#39 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 6321
From: Unknown

@Vistaus

my critic is not about if Amigakit service is good or bad or if itix view is right or wrong but whom they let moderating their site and how this person act on their behalve (or thinking that)

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PR 
Re: Do not buy from AmigaKit
Posted on 27-Oct-2014 11:28:05
#40 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1961
From: Suomi-Finland

@itix

You bitter old man;)

It's a good service here along now. Hopefully You get the things settled. Usually Amigapeople do.

There are only a few shops left so keep 'em going.

Not knowing the fault but everything can be agreed. (With me, here, anyways, Be nice)

PR



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