@resle

Sadly I agree with you. The cost of the 'new' hardware is the main thing stopping me from getting back into the Amiga (other than WinUAE emulation for games).

Personally I don't care what architecture the OS runs on (although I do love the idea of it being on ARM), but it stings a little to look at the price of the current Amiga hardware and then look at the £300 I just spent on a new PC for my parents (mobo, CPU, RAM, case, PSU, keyboard and mouse). Even the little AMD APU probably runs circles around current Amiga boards. Even worse when I compare it to the £40 pcduino3

@smartroad

then why do you not use Aros?

@smartroad

What Olaf said, basically.

If you can live without the tighter integration, than AROS x86 is the way to go. It's only if you want backward compatibility with "Classic" AmigaOS programs that you need a PowerPC platform like the AmigaOnes. (Edit: UAE isn't what I mean by compatibility, of course - by that I mean the ability to run programs without running a sandbox)

Last edited by Spirantho on 28-Oct-2014 at 04:28 PM.

@Spirantho

I still don't get what is wrong with sandboxes: if coded right, like Rosetta on power mac or even Janus on AROS you can still run and interact with the software; i know however Janus miss an arexx port...

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Scarabocchi Binari - Italian AROS Blog
Binary Doodles - English language AROS Blog

@saimon69

I do not own AmigaOS or MorphOS hardware but I assume it is the way how 68k is integrated by default without needing UAE for some of the software. That is of course different on Aros (the biggest difference propably).

that you can mix 68k components and PPC native ones.

But to be clear... I have read posts from one of the MorphOS dev IF they would make a ISA change they would use UAE also, basically the same as on Aros. It is the price of flexibility

Last edited by OlafS25 on 28-Oct-2014 at 05:55 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 28-Oct-2014 at 05:53 PM.

@resle

that certainly looking at it in a negitive way, I look at it like this...

Reality check:
AMIGA in the year 2014 is

- Just amazing to be here, 20 year after Commodore demised!

- Has not just one Official market outlet still going but somehow five, AmigaOS, MorpthOS, Aros and Emulation and there even still classic developments!

- Has new hardware and OS developments, although slower than I'm sure anyone would like to see, again I'm just amazed the market is still going!

- Still even have companies running just in the Amiga market when you look at other platform from that decade that the world has moved on from, Atari, Acon, BeOS etc has really none or really hobbist.

- Still has some cool developers and users that could easily move on to making apps for the mobile world and have a much bigger market to show there creations.

see the glass can be half full, not just half empty.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, LeaveReality Studio

@saimon69

Quote:

I still don't get what is wrong with sandboxes

There's nothing wrong with them but it's still better if you can run software without them.

@resle

I agree.

I don't have a problem with the development community praising each other, it is good that they are trying even though their efforts are futile in today's climate.

It's a real sad state of affairs

@OlafS25

Quote:

I do not own AmigaOS or MorphOS hardware but I assume it is the way how 68k is integrated by default without needing UAE for some of the software. That is of course different on Aros (the biggest difference propably). that you can mix 68k components and PPC native ones. But to be clear... I have read posts from one of the MorphOS dev IF they would make a ISA change they would use UAE also, basically the same as on Aros. It is the price of flexibility

Running 68k software in UAE leads to inconvenience. You can not mix 68k and native components anymore so if you would like to use some neat 68k library or MUI class from native code it is no longer possible. So everything must be ported to native code and what can not be ported must be rewritten.

Also interoperability between native and 68k software suffer.

But indeed if MorphOS is ported to new ISA 68k compatibility layer would be dropped and you have to use UAE. Of course it would also have some benefits. If 68k software crashes it would only crash in UAE (if MorphOS does not get memory protection when ported to new ISA).

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Exactly. A sandbox is useful for some things, e.g. scripting, libraries etc.

Take an example my SuperDiskImage program. It runs under OS4. It supports various disk formats, but of the formats I wanted to support on the Amiga was the IPF file format. The IPF file format (for copy-protected disks) is a closed library - I can't compile it for PPC, but I can use the binary.
If I'm forced to use a sandbox like UAE, it's impossible.... but because OS4 uses PPC and can run OS 3 programs just by emulating the CPU, I can use the OS3 version of the library transparently, and it works perfectly.

There are other examples, but I find more often than not the sandbox method is less convenient even where it is possible.

@Spirantho

There was some time ago an AROS based experimental project for a minimal 68k emulator only for DOS and system friendly apps called emumiga that could have achieved that kind of elasticity but as far as i know was abandoned, unless someone want to take it back..

code has been put on github: https://github.com/moggen/emumiga

Last edited by saimon69 on 28-Oct-2014 at 07:20 PM.

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Scarabocchi Binari - Italian AROS Blog
Binary Doodles - English language AROS Blog

@saimon69

Yeah, that is workable approach but it takes lot of effort to get there. If Amiga community was bigger it would have been done already.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@smartroad

People think differently.
For some even the thought of spending money on a AmigaOS 4.x capable machine is a bean counting exercise and painful.
To others spending the money is not the important thing.Having an AmigaOS 4.x capable machine to use is and gives us pleasure.

Total different values .

Quote:

smartroad wrote: @resle Sadly I agree with you. The cost of the 'new' hardware is the main thing stopping me from getting back into the Amiga (other than WinUAE emulation for games). Personally I don't care what architecture the OS runs on (although I do love the idea of it being on ARM), but it stings a little to look at the price of the current Amiga hardware and then look at the £300 I just spent on a new PC for my parents (mobo, CPU, RAM, case, PSU, keyboard and mouse). Even the little AMD APU probably runs circles around current Amiga boards. Even worse when I compare it to the £40 pcduino3

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

+1

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

I wanted to write something like this for quite a while as the topic of AOS4's future comes up every now and then.

So to start off: I'm only 22 years old, so I'm quite a young 'lad' if you will. But here's my take on it.

So I pretty much grew up with Windows 95 and a little of 98SE. Finally, after a few old/second hand PC's, we got a brand new PC when I was 11 years old. Windows XP was the OS running on it. Now I'm gonna spare you the details of exactly what else I got in the years to follow 'cause this is not an autobiography on my computer life nor a place to rant. But to follow the 'big lines': Windows Vista wasn't as bad to use, but it kept overheating my then second laptop I ever owned. Fed up with all of that ****, I took the plunge and switched to Ubuntu and, shortly after, Kubuntu. No more overheating, no more problems, a nice community. Exactly what I was looking for back then. Now after that laptop broke down (HDD issues), I got another one. Used Windows 7 in dual-boot with Ubuntu for a short while. It was clear to me that Windows 7 was an improvement over Vista, but I just couldn't work with it. Again: I'll spare you the details here. But let's just say I got 2 laptops after, used Mac OSX for a short while and tried a couple of Linux distros finally settling with Antergos late last year. Which I still use on my hybrid laptop.
Now you're probably asking why I'm writing a Linux post when really I should be talking about AmigaOS ;) Well, truth be told: I got fed up with the instability and clumsyness of all things Linux in 2013. Having heard and looked at AmigaOS 4 for over a year (just out of interest), I started to dig in more and fell in love with what I saw, what I read and what I was promised by the Amiga website ("Remember when computing was fun?"). So I went through, registered on AW.net and asked about the One500. Eventually, I ended up buying it. This is my first Amiga ever. Now, please refrain from discussing whether or not the One series is an Amiga or not, that's truly besides the point here. When I unpacked the One500 and booted it up, I was a bit overwhelmed by it. Maybe because I was also still a bit fussing about how my Linux experience went down the drain as I got fed up with it. So it took me some time to really get into AmigaOS 4. But when I did, I started to see what I saw when I looked at it while researching it: beauty, fun and something that actually works. Although it was a bit slow and laggy overall, I didn't really care that much. (oh, and texts were a bit jagged) But I got a warm welcome by AW.net and also by Hyperion on their Facebook. Shortly after, I ended up buying a RadeonHD and all of a sudden the One500 got a rebirth! lol

Now like I said: I still got my hybrid laptop where I use Linux. So I'm not totally converted to AmigaOS 4. But that doesn't matter to me, I feel like I have the best of both worlds now. Linux isn't perfect, AmigaOS 4 isn't. I do on Linux what I can't on AOS4 (which luckily is only a few things). But what does AmigaOS4 mean to me?

-A desktop environment (Workbench) that works and even though I never used an Amiga in the past, for some reason it feels like coming home. I know how Workbench works, I like how it works and I feel like I'm pretty fast with using its features. I like GNOME Shell on Linux, but it doesn't feel quite the same as Workbench makes me feel. Activities on GNOME Shell is very fast for app switching, that's one thing AOS4 could use. But other than that, Workbench feels better. No tweaking this, not tweaking that, no editing file xyz just to get some bloody thing to work (or sometimes not lol). It feels like the more intuitive and more mature desktop environment. It's beautiful, it's fast, it feels exactly like how a desktop should work (regarding the desktop principle).And besides that: it ***encourages*** me to have fun and get stuff done at the same time.
== Fun fact: I have my One500 for little over a year now and I haven't ever cursed to it or became upset or mad or anything, unlike my previous computer or even my current hybrid laptop with Linux! ==
-A long history. Aside from having to do a hard reboot once in a while, it feels rock solid because of its legacy.
-A web browser that actually works. Over the years, I've switched web browsers like I'm a psychopath. And even in 2014, I'm struggling to find a good browser. That may sound awkward for some of you 'cause you've seen or experienced things like Chrome and Firefox. But to me, they all have their fair share of problems, even when doing normal things. And I do use them on my hybrid laptop with Linux. There's not one web browser out there that feels good to me. Except for Odyssey 1.23 on AOS4. It's not perfect, it needs optimization on heavy sites (that I actually find its biggest hurdle) but it works. It never crashes, it never lets me down except on heavy sites, it does what it's supposed to do. Call me whatever you want, but I feel like Odyssey is the closest to being a perfect web browser. At least for me.
-A good community. The Linux community is good, but it feels like a war zone. I've seen the same war on AW.net (hence this topic lol) but it's different over here. Here, it's more of a war b/w Classic and NG. Which is something I just ignore 'cause I'm not used to Classic lol. So I just focus on the NG part of the community and you guys are all great!

And regarding the software thing: I'm using very few apps that *need* a specific OS. Whether that's apps in PC/Amiga land or apps in smartphone land. I'm doing a lot of cloud stuff these days which works for the most part fine in most web browser including Odyssey 1.23

Now I'm probably leaving some stuff out, please bear with me as it's after midnight lol. But this is at least part of what I wanted to share with you guys. Hope I did enlighten a bit with my experience as a young (NG) lad. And if you want to hear more of my experiences with AOS4 or other OS's, please let me know and I'll write some more. Either on here or on a blog thing.

"Remember when computing was fun?" No. Instead, I get remembered that it *is* fun every day when I boot my One500 straight into AOS4.
Like my signature says: I'm proud to be an AOS 4.1 user.

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_________________
Proud user of AmigaOS 4.1 on an AmigaONE 500. This is the first Amiga I've ever had so I don't know all the ins and outs of AmigaOS yet, so I'm sorry if I'm asking noob questions and stuff.

@Vistaus

+1

Thanks for your post Vistaus. It's good to hear that AmigaOS can be viewed as something more than just "nostalgia".

I wish you many more years of enjoyment.

Last edited by Steady on 29-Oct-2014 at 12:35 AM.

@resle

After the AmiWest hoopla I wondered how to express skepticism about some things without getting in a lot of trouble. Now I don't have to. Actually some of your points were exaggerated. The part about amateurs creating second-rate software is undeserved. I happen to be a creator of second-rate software myself. First-rate developers won't do a thing without financial reward, which won't ever happen. Anyone who develops for the Amiga knows that he is unlikely to see enough financial reward to make it worthwhile.

_________________
X5000 / microA1(OS4.1 FE U2) / CodeBench / Imagine / Blender
Lightwave 2019 / Microsoft Visual C++

@Vistaus

Quote:

Vistaus wrote: ..."Remember when computing was fun?" No. Instead, I get remembered that it *is* fun every day when I boot my One500 straight into AOS4. Like my signature says: I'm proud to be an AOS 4.1 user.

+ 1,000,000 awesome news & put a smile on my face there my friend that someone new to our favourite OS can get the same Amiga feeling that us old timers do! welcome to our world where we live out of the matrix

Last edited by klx300r on 29-Oct-2014 at 01:35 AM.
Last edited by klx300r on 29-Oct-2014 at 01:34 AM.

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

@amigang

+1

Tygre

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Tygre
Scientific Progress Goes Boing!

@klx300r

Actually, being old-timers, we probably live in the world of the dot-matrix