So now that WinUAE is I think only going to get better at supporting OS4 classic edition I wonder if Hyperion should perhaps do a edition of the OS maybe with support of Cloanto to release a pre-setup winUAE edition (it could be called Amiga 4ever :) ). After all the people who know how to do it are going to do it anyway, this way it just make it easier for everyone to give it a try and a pre-setup that everyone can work towards making better and gives a much needed cash boost for Hyperion, as I'm sure a lot of people would get it. What are your thoughts, could/would this hurt the next gen hardware sales? just found it an interesting question and what everyone thought would be on it?

Last edited by amigang on 29-Oct-2014 at 12:10 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 29-Oct-2014 at 11:42 AM.

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@amigang

More likely that Cloanto would do it as part of Amiga Forever I would think.

@amigang

This absolutely will never happen - and never should happen.

If they make a WinUAE edition, then they then become liable for supporting that platform - in other words, it then becomes up to them to keep WinUAE working with the OS!

I imagine the official line is "if they want to run it on WinUAE that's up to them, but it's not our problem if it doesn't work", and I think that's the sensible line.

@Spirantho

actually you most likly right, maybe not Hyperion offical supporting winUAE but maybe just allowing Cloanto make it part of Amigaforever, do you see that happing? would love to know if Hyperion would allow them to do it?

Last edited by amigang on 29-Oct-2014 at 12:13 PM.
Last edited by amigang on 29-Oct-2014 at 12:12 PM.

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@thread

Already asked and answered:

Quote:

And you are correct, WinUAE is not a supported target platform so you are 100% on your own.

Source

#6

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I would love to try it on a laptop.
Also for performance I might try it on AMD FX4300 system to see if it performs better than on my SAM440.

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@amigang

As has been answered, not gonna happen. While I do see your point, no effort will be put into supporting an emulation of a 20 year old computer with a slightly less older CPU expansion card. Which is what WinUAE is doing now. It's just a work around to get OS4.

A Sam440 emulator, that could be worth a look, emulation of newer hardware.

The thing is, OS4 running on UAE now is just a side effect. OS4 runs on a CyberStorm PPC. So if anything UAE should be tuned so CyberStorm PPC software works as it should. I don't really see any point of OS4 being optimised for UAE as it runs on the intended hardware, as it always has, so how could you try to optimise it for an emulation? I think it should be the other way around.

I do wonder if the OS4 on laptop demo rocked the boat a little. When was it two years ago the OS4 netbook was announced at AmiWest? And now someone runs OS4 emulated on a PC laptop. Ouch! Once again, after we had been re-established on a new architecture, the PC comes along again and usurps us. Emulating another Amiga generation yet again. Nothing is scared.

Is this yet another nail in the Amiga coffin? OS4 moves the Amiga forward. We think we have moved on. Left the old and easily emulatable hardware behind onto newer and faster pastures in modern green times. And then this happens. When a cheap PC can easily emulate an OS that runs on different hardware, it is not a good sign.

But perhaps this is less against the Amiga and more against Mototola and how they should have got their butt in gear so the PPC wouldn't fall behind. Then again, an X1000 or AmigaOne could surely emulate a 233Mhz Pentium, you just can't run Windows 8 or OSX Y on it.

Could this hurt hardware sales? Quite possible. But I'd say only lower hardware as this is the most affordable. The cloest to being free. Another thing is that the emulation has limitations as it is emulating old hardware. So although the UAE RTG and audio do the trick. there are still memory limitations and other things to consider.

It could be tempting to suggest this as a replacement for an X1000. As someone has to me. But to do so, you'd need a cheap PC, that can emulate a dual-core 64-bit PPC at a sustained actual speed of 1.8Ghz with a 4GB memory map and RadeonHD. AFAIK that isn't possible yet. But let's see some speed figures for UAE first.

What I do wonder is if prices of CyberStorm PPC cards will drop? Not that prices of real Amiga hardware have with UAE over the years anyway. But now, why would you bother? I mean, if the intent was to run OS4 as it's the PPC killer app, why spend almost $2,000 or $3,000 on older hardware when for the same amount you could buy an X1000!?

X1000 is looking good now. Except that free emulator running the same OS on older hardware is overshadowing it.

Last edited by Hypex on 30-Oct-2014 at 12:23 PM.

@Hypex

"hurting hardware sales"

Well, maybe. Tho if anything it will introduce more people to OS4.x, that might end up taking the plunge into Acube or AEON hardware once they get comfortable with the NG OS.
While the emulation lets you run the OS, from what ive read many games will crash as they expect graphics accelerator, and I would be suprised if future programs that get ported or developed wont require graphics support beyond the scope of the emulator.
Toni doesnt seem intrested in developing drivers for 3rd party hardware.
So it could HELP hardware sales...coin toss on that one tbh.

What I feel very confident about is that Hyperion will see a nice boost in OS sales, with people getting a version for their current NG machine in addition to their emulator (often for laptops). Some classical owners will get OS4 FE out of curioustiy without having to pay the inital xxxx euros for 460/1000/5000 which they most likely wouldnt do either way.

Additionally, with MORE OS4 sales comes more AmiStore customers/members which will help the traffic/income for AeonKit and the developers that listed their programs/games in Amistore in the first place.

So, overall I think emulation will help all parties.

Last edited by Overflow on 29-Oct-2014 at 02:44 PM.
Last edited by Overflow on 29-Oct-2014 at 02:27 PM.

@Hypex

Quote:

But perhaps this is less against the Amiga and more against Mototola and how they should have got their but in gear so the PPC wouldn't fall behind. Then again, an X1000 or AmigaOne could surely emulate a 233Mhz Pentium, you just can't run Windows 8 or OSX Y on it] But perhaps this is less against the Amiga and more against Mototola and how they should have got their but in gear so the PPC wouldn't fall behind. Then again, an X1000 or AmigaOne could surely emulate a 233Mhz Pentium, you just can't run Windows 8 or OSX Y on it

Im pretty sure you can have a 2.5 ghz Pentium4 Integer and a 800mhz fpu emulated on X1000 who emulating powermac on Mol with video and read/write performance more faster than G5 2.5ghz ... this because the fast Ram and Fast video board compared with old G5

in case Hypex this is a G5 emulating a PC without video acceleration :(

WindowsXP SP3 boot time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AzFCS0JeM4

Final bur Alpha on VirtualPc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoocnYJTGSE&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ

Aros X86 on Qemu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQ4MEOpdjY&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ&index=5

Browsing with Aros on Qemu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqZJ0WL-cLI&list=UUkb4bw4N19d-x_tn2FXLojQ&index=4

Note with Passtrought and Kvm-qemu under linux PPC qemu can be much much much more better :)

Last edited by tlosm on 29-Oct-2014 at 02:27 PM.

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I don't think it'll hurt hardware sales too much, actually. The FPU emulation in QEMU is so slow it's never going to be useful on anything which requires maths - even a Sam440ep should easily outrun the FPU of WinUAE, let alone the X1000 which is streets ahead.

I think WinUAE is a good taster - kind of like a demo of what an AmigaOne is like - but much slower for most things. As long as people don't think that instability and slowness is representative of OS 4 (people may choose to ignore the fact that faults may be in WinUAE if it suits their purpose to do so) - then I'm fine with WinUAE supporting OS4.

All IMHO of course.

@amigang

I already bought OS4.1 Classic for dedicated WinUAE use, when they were only just showing first pictures and no betas available yet. I have not yet been able to use SFS/02 filesystem though with this setup, which has been frustrating and held me back from actually using it. (As soon as I format an sfs/02 partition, I can't boot again, need to remove the drive at that point, some error about not enough memory for kernel) SFS/00 works, and I don't at the moment need large file support, but I don't want to find myself needing to convert things later on if I do need larger files.

Although I'd actually prefer to see Qemu itself get an AmigaOne chipset emulaiton. That would get us larger memory support more naturally than Z3 swap style, and could also get us access to other PC hardware for driver coding via VFIO and such for PCI and SoC platform (AMBA, Wishbone, etc bus) peripherals, which I'd lik eto play with even on PPC hardware.

Last edited by billt on 29-Oct-2014 at 03:21 PM.

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@billt

I will probably get a copy to demo to friends.

@amigang

Some people had problems with OS4 installation on WinUAE - pre-setup (eg. in AmigaForever package) is good idea.

However, memory limitations are too severe to be more than nice demo. Maybe I will raise feature request on AmigaOS forum, support for Z3 RAM would require only minor fix.

@pavlor

I belive I read a comment on EAB, that while Toni does things out of intrest/curiousity, the donations he recived inspired him even more

That said, he could decide tomorrow that he lost intrest and discontinues the development.

@Overflow

Quote:

That said, he could decide tomorrow that he lost intrest and discontinues the development.

Current state of emulation is sufficient. 128 MB memory limitation is on the OS side - only Hyperion can fix it.

It would be interesting, if OS4.1 and WinUAE support the UAE P96 driver (for higher resolutions and more VRAM than the 4MB of the emulated PicassoIV), and especially more memory (256MB is not enough IMHO).

@pavlor

With Blizzard the Ram on O4.1 is 256mb ... i think tony can swap from cyberstorm emulation to Blizzard emulation for have more ram on board... and if i remember good blizzard can be opened to 512mb on board.

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MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@_analogkid_

I assume the source for the UAE P96 driver is available so a OS4 PPC native version should be possible if standard driver doesn't work.

@tlosm

Quote:

With Blizzard the Ram on O4.1 is 256mb ...

Of course.

Quote:

i think tony can swap from cyberstorm emulation to Blizzard emulation for have more ram on board...

Blizzard603e is supported in latest Beta. However, CPU emulation is slow (1/10 of CyberstormPPC emulation on the same hardware) and OS4 works only with slow IDE controller. Interesting enough, Picasso IV Z3 is useable on this setup (A1200).


Best solution would be simple fix in OS4 to support Z3 RAM as normal Fast RAM.

@amigang

I'm already really tempted to buy the Classic version for WinUAE it but I don't think any of my PCs are fast enough to run it effectively. Especially considering I already have it on my Sam460. If I had a nice new PC, I'd definitely buy it for 30 Euros.