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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
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PosterThread
TiredofLife 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 22:33:33
#1161 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1583
From: Here

@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote:
@BigD

Quote:
What you are talking about is a mass exodus of Amiga developers and users.


I'd imagine that the vast majority of active Amigans are not OS4, AROS or MorphOS users but classic users anyway.

Quote:
I simply would not consider using a NG system of any sort should AmigaOS be put out to pasture


It's a shame to let politics get in the way of at least trying an OS that gives you much of the user experience that you enjoy.

Quote:
It is the last chance at retaining any semblance of a link to the Classic machines and to market the Amiga to the wider world and attempt to make some money in the process.


You should look at what's actually happening in the classic community. There are new FPGA Amiga-compatibles that are much closer to a 'real' Amiga than the next-gen machines that everyone's been arguing about.

One reason that next-gen machines exist at all is that you couldn't improve AGA or make faster 680x0s. Now, that stuff is just a firmware update away.

Already you can run OS 3.x on a brand-new machine, or drop an FPGA accelerator into an A600 and get 200mhz 020 speeds, or install AROS on a classic Amiga and run a piece of software compiled in 1991 alongside a copy of OWB. (EDIT: ok that last one is possible with emulation or a PPC accelerator but not on a pure 68k machine)

Did the 'next-gen' ever allow the past and present of the Amiga to co-mingle like that? I don't think so.

Chris


Er yes, both AOS and MOS do just that.

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clebin 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 22:39:18
#1162 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@TiredofLife

Via emulation. I knew I'd be picked up on that which is why I edited it!

The bigger point is that each part - old and new - is interchangeable. You can accelerator your classic machine with an FPGA. You can replace the OS with a compatible one. You can buy a brand-new machine and run AmigaOS 1.3 on it.

BigD's point about there being no link to the past without OS4 is just plain wrong.

Chris

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AROS - verb (Welsh) - To wait, to await, to stay, to abide.
- Clebin Games - www.clebin.co.uk -

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 22:44:33
#1163 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4151
From: UK

@terminills

Quote:

terminills wrote:
@BigD

Would you stop bringing up AROS. This thread is about Hyperion's utter failure as a company and there is no need to keep bringing up AROS. :)



This thread is about whether or not Hyperion is bankrupt, has a chance of coming out of bankruptcy and the likely date of this happening. We are nowhere near the possibility of AmigaOS development shutting down at this point as NOTHING has been finalised and a counter claim against the bankruptcy has been filed by Hyperion! We'll know at the end of the month what's going on.

@Manu

Quote:
Quote from BigD:

and will be lucky to have any developers never mind ex-AmigaOS ones.

Quote from Manu:

wishful thinking ?


Until the end of the month I really don't see why so called 'Amiga fans' should be bad mouthing AmigaOS and ranting about how AROS will hopefully steal all its old code base and developers! That is what sounds like wishful thinking Manu!

Last edited by BigD on 22-Mar-2015 at 10:49 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 22-Mar-2015 at 10:49 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 22-Mar-2015 at 10:48 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 22:50:29
#1164 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@BigD

I do not want to disappoint you but AROS is also running on 68k hardware and there is a good chance that it runs on new FPGA based system (I will hopefully be part of next wave of apollo core test systems :) ). if "Classic machines" refer to Amigas and new FPGA hardware then AROS is the link. Not only on "Pee-Cee"

I only answered here "offtopic" as answer to your claims

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 22:57:06
#1165 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5727
From: Unknown

@clebin

Quote:
Already you can run OS 3.x on a brand-new machine, or drop an FPGA accelerator into an A600 and get 200mhz 020 speeds, or install AROS on a classic Amiga and run a piece of software compiled in 1991 alongside a copy of OWB. (EDIT: ok that last one is possible with emulation or a PPC accelerator but not on a pure 68k machine)


you dont need ppc to run aros owb alongside legacy amiga software under aros68k.

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:03:06
#1166 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4151
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:
I do not want to disappoint you but AROS is also running on 68k hardware


Why bother running AROS when you can rull the original Workbench versions and OS3.5 and OS3.9?

Quote:
and there is a good chance that it runs on new FPGA based system (I will hopefully be part of next wave of apollo core test systems :) ). if "Classic machines" refer to Amigas and new FPGA hardware then AROS is the link. Not only on "Pee-Cee"


We'll wait and see what becomes of FPGA based systems. The Natami is still nowhere to be seen and in regards the other projects you mention, I wouldn't expect too much in the way of development on par with what A-EON are doing.

So AROS can run on 68k and some hypothetical FPGA hardware! Why does that make it more interesting and relevant to this thread?

Last edited by BigD on 22-Mar-2015 at 11:03 PM.

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clebin 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:07:26
#1167 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Oct-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Cardiff

@wawa

That was my point. My rushed edit was to head off someone saying "but OS4 can do that" but I still got that response anyway...

Chris

_________________
AROS - verb (Welsh) - To wait, to await, to stay, to abide.
- Clebin Games - www.clebin.co.uk -

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:10:25
#1168 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@BigD

As I wrote I answered to your post

3.5/3.9 still in development and sources are free and it is adaptable?

That is why i bother with it

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:12:56
#1169 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4151
From: UK

@clebin

The way I see it, OS4.x offers the only route to move beyond Workbench 3.1 while retaining some compatibility with Petunia and RuninUAE. AROS is obsessed with a Workbench 3.1 for the modern era and that simply isn't good enough any more. AmigaOS has its limitation too but Hyperion are able to make decisions (if they choose too) to move the platform forward. This is simply not possible with the general consensus approach of AROS which will always have the Workbench 3.1 API compatibility at its heart.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:15:32
#1170 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@BigD

and A-eon projects? If you mean the X1000 successor what is special about it compared to a "Pee-Cee" you obviously dislikes. The motherboard are the same, graphic and sound chips are the same, it is only using PowerPC processor instead of X64 (or ARM). i do not see a real advantage there. FPGA at least has a geek factor and a different concept.

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:15:37
#1171 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4151
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:
3.5/3.9 still in development and sources are free and it is adaptable?


Why does that matter? OS3.9 works fine. Upgraded Amiga Classics are buggy enough without further hacking another OS on top of all the Phase 5 and Video Card stuff you have to install. If prattling around with AROS on 68k makes you happy then fine BUT PLEASE ACCEPT THIS HAS NO RATIONAL PLACE ON A THREAD ABOUT HYPERION!!!

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:17:22
#1172 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4151
From: UK

@OlafS25

Quote:
FPGA at least has a geek factor and a different concept.


Show me a working board from a trusted developer and I'll check it out. Until then it is simply hot air and has no bearing on the Hyperion bankruptcy!!

_________________
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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:22:43
#1173 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4151
From: UK

@OlafS25

I think what this all boils down to is that there are a contingent of Amiga fans that think they know best and given the opportunity they love tinkering around with their implementation of old Amiga source code and trying to do things their way. Brilliant have a blast and develop AROS into whatever you want it to be. Just don't expect it to appeal to any AmigaOS user!

Others of us like AmigaOS sold as the complete package developed by people who make the coding/design decisions on our behalf for the good of the community and in return we pay them for a copy of their software or update. Hyperion and AmigaOS fall into this latter camp and as such all talk of AROS and its open source Linux style development seemingly appealing to AmigaOS users is a bit strange on this thread!

Last edited by BigD on 22-Mar-2015 at 11:23 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:26:36
#1174 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5727
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
Why bother running AROS when you can rull the original Workbench versions and OS3.5 and OS3.9?


because it offers you backwards compatibility as well as additional features and additional software that is available to it as contribution. turning the argument around would be the same question: why to use morphos or os4 when you can use genuine amiga and its workbench.

Quote:
So AROS can run on 68k and some hypothetical FPGA hardware! Why does that make it more interesting and relevant to this thread?


i think aros68k has been already made run on vampire but i dont know for sure. i dont know if it makes it any more relevant to this thread, but since its you who asks it makes it as far interesting as when run on an amiga (an i mean a real amiga) it feels about as amiga as its genuine system. i couldnt say that much about os4. it may be subjective feeling even if i didnt have any prejudice initially, but most likely its because it had to run on a hacked in ppc and almost all it had to offer were sdl ports.

Last edited by wawa on 22-Mar-2015 at 11:33 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:30:47
#1175 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5098
From: Unknown

@BigD

As soon as I have a running board you will certainly be informed

I know that it is more propable that hell freezes than AmigaOS user change their minds (at least many of them) so I will not try

But others should not try to talk down other platforms either

BTW you will never find any posting of me downtalking AmigaOS but I can find many postings where people (of a certain camp) downtalk AROS. And that is a little nerving.

But as you wrote "offtopic" so I stop here now. Hopefully situation will be clear soon (whatever)

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:37:05
#1176 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5727
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
AROS is obsessed with a Workbench 3.1 for the modern era and that simply isn't good enough any more.


you are completely misinformed. of course aros aims at 3.1 compatibility as a base, same as os4 expanding over it. obviously you imagine aros as some sort of low res 3.1 wb equivalent running on x86 hardware, which is just because you likely have never seen it.

Last edited by wawa on 22-Mar-2015 at 11:37 PM.

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QuikSanz 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 22-Mar-2015 23:50:41
#1177 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Mar-2003
Posts: 1072
From: Surf City - Huntington Beach, Ca.


And your all OT................. Another dead camp takeover thread. Blah blah. No, they are not BK. Your continued hope and belief that they are is laughable.

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TiredofLife 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 23-Mar-2015 0:20:25
#1178 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Jul-2005
Posts: 1583
From: Here

@clebin

Quote:

clebin wrote:
@wawa

That was my point. My rushed edit was to head off someone saying "but OS4 can do that" but I still got that response anyway...

Chris


From who?

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saimon69 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 23-Mar-2015 0:57:33
#1179 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Dec-2007
Posts: 269
From: Los Angeles, CA

@QuikSanz


Well you are close enough to come at next SCCAN reunion in Northridge so i can show my AROS powered netbook to you - unless i seen you there already

@BigD
OK, the thread IS indeed whether Hyperion is or not bankrupt, however would be fool and dismissive not to discuss also the WHY Hyperion is in this situation and WHAT to do to fix things.

Had enough discussion with you, pavlor, NutsAboutAmiga and others here, agreeing to disagree on tastes and opinions, but IMO seems one thing is not clear:
if Hyperion will be declared bankrupt at the end of the month, that will be because of its own mistakes: first as software developer in delivering and maintaining the system up to date, then as business with very bad customer service and public relations, third for a questionable sales model, bent on milking its customers and piggybacking their sense of superiority and entitlement in being Amigans, NOT for os4 per se and its users.

So because of that now is Damage Control time.

The problem is: if another company is taking over AmigaOS its first problem will be liquidity: make earnings to get even and then in active, so money for them becomes the first priority rather than the customer;
furthermore if at the end of the day that company decide OS4 as product is not giving enough ROI they will simply shut it down, careless of the customers using it or the fan base.
Considered the little userbase left, i think that consider Amiga/AmigaOne/MorphOS etc. as consumer product and keeping a commercial approach and philosophy in dealing with customers and developers in my opinion is inadequate and even detrimental for the current situation.

OK, you don't like AROS and that is fine: however, if Hyperion will be at thje end declared bankrupt there is a concrete risk of Amiga OS4 not receiving no more updates and support, so you need a plan B.
I Would not mind if OS4 were open sourced and maintained as AROS is now, it would partially solve this problem; however in the case the latter option could not happen - due to IP and other economical/political obstacles, AROS is your plan B or C (D is linux) if somebody will care to port it to x1000 and update the SAM port (will happen for sure if things go belly up, and IMO pretty fast) and if you like an Amiga approach to computing AND being kept up to date.

[now i know where you are coming from because all this things were among my own personal oppositions to AROS when first came out in 1995:
-first that is home made so will feel "rough" to the edges not like a commercial OS;
-then that was developed at first as linux hosted (so relying on "alien" technology, but native does not have that, it has its own exec kernel that will not be "born in Commodore" but is working exactly as the Amiga one of os 3.1-3.5-3.9 plus tweaks)
- and also that Wanderer is primitive (well now we have alternatives: dopus 5 and a work in progress of Kalamatee to make it modular and expandible)
- oh yeah: "the Brand": did you knew AROS kinda had it pre-lawsuit (it was known as AMIGA Replacement Operating System - then changed as AROS Research Operating System due to avoid trouble with Ben and Bill)?
so at the end is all about perception: i had to be out of amiga scene for like eight years to appreciate it more.
At this i personally add the thrill of seeing it grow under my eyes when contributors add stuff to it
]

Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 01:47 AM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 01:45 AM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 01:29 AM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 01:19 AM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 01:16 AM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 01:14 AM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 01:11 AM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 01:08 AM.
Last edited by saimon69 on 23-Mar-2015 at 12:58 AM.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 23-Mar-2015 3:08:46
#1180 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 688
From: Arizona

@thread

Even if Hyperion becomes solvent once again, it won't make any difference, at least not for long. Any business needs a product that sells to stay afloat and Hyperion simply doesn't have one. That's why they went bankrupt to begin with. No one besides this hobby community wants to invest in such an outdated and feature-lacking OS. Just try convcincing current PC users to invest in a copy of MS-DOS. You'll understandably get laughed out of the room. With OS4, the situation is no different. So all the hand wringing and speculation in this thread is just ridiculous.

Even if some company steps in and picks up OS4, what makes them so special to believe that they can succeed where Hyperion failed? They'll still have a product on their hands that no one wants. No business owner in his right mind would pick up OS4 and hope to make a profit. It didn't work for Hyperion and it won't work for any other takers. And please don't start playing even more absurd "what-if" games, like what if it had SMP, memory protection, multi-user, blah, blah, blah.....That takes money, time and an army of programmers. And right now, there's no money which means no programmers, and no demand.

So bankrupt or not, OS4 is a dead-end. Anyone who believes otherwise is seriously out of touch and needs professional help.

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