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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
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realize 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 0:27:04
#1321 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1774
From: nyc

@Hyperionmp

I may not have a star wars quote for you but your track record has left most of us with very little faith. Instead of putting lame quotes why dont you now tell us what the plan is and the roadmap?

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 0:44:41
#1322 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 499
From: Melbourne, Australia

If the bankruptcy is indeed overturned it does not mean it's not real. Most of you are looking at this either very pessimistically or very optimistically. The more realistic take-away from this experience is that Hyperion Entertainment CVBA is not in a stable financial situation.

Even in Belgium, if a company is doing OK financially they never need to go through the bankruptcy court. It's not a joke, it's not a right of passage. What this should have revealed to most of you is that the money just isn't coming in to make for a sustainable Hyperion. They may have got out of this one, but how soon before the next one? And what does this mean for continued funding for OS 4.2 and beyond?

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 1:29:36
#1323 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4255
From: UK

@agami

Quote:
What this should have revealed to most of you is that the money just isn't coming in to make for a sustainable Hyperion.


I don't think anyone was under the illusion that the likes of Hyperion, A-EON, ACube or Amigakit were reaping in the megabucks

Together however they offer the Amiga community a commercial Amiga NG platform that has ongoing hardware development (thank A-EON and ACube) and customer support (thanks AmigaKit), as well as new AmigaOS development (thanks Hyperion)! This really is not something to take for granted. It's amazing that ANY Amiga(One/OS) IP is still in use today never mind a commercial computer system encompassing the whole ecosystem albeit custom PC motherboards with a PPC based operating system.

Let's take a big sigh of relief for Hyperion's recovery to normal and await their roadmap for the future OS4.2 releases with SMT and Gallium3D support
A business plan made public would be nice too, but I'm well aware I'm not a Dragon on Dragon's Den (BBC programme reference)

Last edited by BigD on 04-Apr-2015 at 01:34 AM.

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klx300r 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 3:18:47
#1324 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3272
From: Toronto, Canada

@BigD


well said, +1

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 3:19:37
#1325 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4180
From: Portsmouth England

@agami

Quote:

If the bankruptcy is indeed overturned it does not mean it's not real. Most of you are looking at this either very pessimistically or very optimistically. The more realistic take-away from this experience is that Hyperion Entertainment CVBA is not in a stable financial situation.


They were made bankrupt because of an admin error as explained right at the beginning of this thread. It was a default judgement because they didn't turn up to oppose (because of said error) whilst that implies they owed someone money it doesn't imply any more than that.

Though I doubt they are stinking rich either

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sundown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 3:55:37
#1326 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5103
From: Right here...

I'm sure there is a whole lot of butt hurt in the "hate Hyperion" camp today. After taking 50 days of crap from the trolls, I will enjoy their pain & the weekend.

Last edited by sundown on 04-Apr-2015 at 05:11 AM.

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umisef 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 5:11:49
#1327 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1658
From: Melbourne, Australia

@broadblues

Quote:
whilst that implies they owed someone money it doesn't imply any more than that.


Actually, I'd say it does imply more than that. You don't get a letter asking you to come to court for "owing someone" money. You get that letter when a debt has come due, you have failed to pay, and "someone" has exhausted every other avenue to get you to pay without success, and has provided sufficiently convincing documentation about that to the court.

A single "admin error" can only explain the last step. What about the earlier steps?

Last edited by umisef on 04-Apr-2015 at 05:13 AM.

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 8:43:06
#1328 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1623
From: Czech Republic

@broadblues

We didn't really expect a swarm of well-wishers to round off this thread, did we?

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SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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tonyw 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 8:55:51
#1329 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3117
From: Sydney (of course)

@umisef

Surprised to see you falling into the trolls' pattern of repeating accusations for which you have no supportive evidence. Sadly, repeating the accusation does not make it more true, it only makes you look like a troll.

Once again (as stated right at the beginning), the creditor (don't know who it was or how much was involved) or the court (don't know and it doesn't matter) sent a letter to Hyperion's accountants threatening to have them declared bankrupt unless some bill was paid.

It is quite possible that the reason the bill was not paid is the same as "the last step" - the accountants did not pass on the bill to Hyperion. We will never know for sure, but I prefer to believe the Hyperion story. People who don't have any interest in AmigaOS4 or NG Amiga hardware may prefer to take the other view. It makes them think they have more sense than the rest of us who actually do something for the cause.

The recent judgement wipes the record clean - Hyperion never were bankrupt, it never happened, it was a mistake.

I find it amusing - it must be terrible to the trolls to be found (once again) so completely wrong.

_________________
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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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djrikki 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 9:05:18
#1330 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2077
From: Grimsby, UK

More than anything else this thread reveals how many misery old gits there are on Amigaworld. Moan, moan, moan, makes one wonder why they come here if they have been already been zapped of any positivity (long ago).
I know things take time in Amigaland, however it is counterproductive to bitch, moan and throw keyboards at each other like babies in a cot.

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Kronos 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 9:12:49
#1331 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2110
From: Unknown

@tonyw

"Hyperion's accountants" thats your error right there....

Those would either be Ben himself (as Hyperion doesn't have any real employees) or some proffesional service doing it for a small fee (and these aren't likely do make such mistakes).

So either all the normal invoices were willfully ignored or mislaid due to incompetence, the result is still the same Hyperion waited PAST the last minute to pay this debt.

Last edited by Kronos on 04-Apr-2015 at 09:15 AM.

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Overflow 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 9:59:00
#1332 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1467
From: Norway

@Kronos

This is pretty much what I think too.

Ive seen in alot of times myself, and some people speculate in the fact that most people will be quite hesitant to file for bankrupcy against anyone.
Or as Kronos alluded to; very small companies where 1 or 2 persons got all the functions have a tendency to neglect paperwork until the last minute, or beyond.

Anyhow; hopefully everyone got paid and we can move on.

Last edited by Overflow on 04-Apr-2015 at 10:11 AM.

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umisef 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 10:15:53
#1333 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1658
From: Melbourne, Australia

@tonyw

Quote:
Once again (as stated right at the beginning), the creditor (don't know who it was or how much was involved) or the court (don't know and it doesn't matter) sent a letter to Hyperion's accountants threatening to have them declared bankrupt unless some bill was paid.


Tony, let's be realistic here. Creditors don't run to the court immediately, and especially not seeking to have their debtor declared insolvent. They send an invoice. Then they send a reminder. Then they send a final reminder. Then, usually, they send a threatening letter saying "unless you pay by date X, we will take you to court". Then a creditor might petition a court, although the more common next steps are probably to engage a collection agency, or to contact the debtor regarding an alternative payment arrangement. Or possibly to send some well-muscled gentlemen around to impress upon the debtor the importance of paying their debt.

Getting your debtor declared insolvent --- that's not the first choice. It's not even the second or third choice, usually, for a simple reason --- it's messy and it's expensive. Also, the benefit is rather small --- being a creditor of a bankrupt company, you are likely to end up with cents on the dollar. What little money there is has to be shared between all creditors, and that's after the costs of the administrator are paid, but before you have to pay your own lawyer to deal with all that crap.

So no, a single missed letter from the court does not get a company declared bankrupt. Not unless that company has neglected to pay its debts, leading to that letter being sent.

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Bugala 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 10:33:02
#1334 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 568
From: Finland

I agree with BigD and Umisef.

And I am not trolling or ranting about it. Just pointing out, which was likely even before that Hyperion is not as stable as Microsoft, and might be in need of playing with their bills a bit, especially since my guess is that they might actually be shoveling more of their personal money inside it to be able to keep the company going on.

And what comes to bankruptcy proceeding. There are lots of companies, take for example phone bill companies. They have pretty straight forward proceeding process. First invoices, then notifications, then threads, and then to court. And they dont look who is on the other side, they just do it, regardless of the sum.

Just hypothetically, it could have actually beemn something like phone bill they had. Due to shortage of money, they decided to play with that till last minute. And then the company handling the invoices forgot to mention the last threat letter, and this (for example) phone company took them to baknruptcy proceeding, despite the (possibly) ridiculously low sum.


And Hyperion not being stable, and them possibly shoveling their own money in to keep it floating - I dont see anything wrong with that, and just like BigD poitned out. Come on! - did you really expect Hyperion being a company with millions in their accounts?

And even they dont, so what? They are anyway doing something. And yes, progress might have been slower than we had hoped, but can you yourself do better?

Would there be anything if Hyperion wouldnt be there? Maybe, maybe not, but what we do know, is that now we do have something at least.

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blizz1220 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 10:50:42
#1335 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

Somebody fix the moobunny ! :)

Anyway , phone company would first have to sue the other company
owning them money and only after that case is won they could
happily march on (with final verdict of the first case in hand )
to demand the court to make the company insolvent and
declared bankrupt to settle debt this way.

So there is never just one court case but two.Before those two
are all those demands to pay up or we sue.

Hard to miss all of that.

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Massi 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 10:57:53
#1336 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Feb-2011
Posts: 516
From: Rome, Italy

@All

For sure this thread will be remembered as the thread of ... trolls.


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blizz1220 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 11:07:37
#1337 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

I thought the goal was 10 000 OT posts before official
news ? :)

Everyone must contribute ...


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Boot_WB 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 12:15:27
#1338 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Hyperionmp

Congratulations to Timothy on getting the key to the filing cabinet back from Bert.

As for AmigaOS development, I'm not sure Hyperion going back to its 'normal' (ie 'undead') state is anything to celebrate, either for the users or remaining creditors.

Interesting to note Hyperions' financial year ends December, which might explain the timing of 4.1FE's apparently rushed release.

Edit: 1337 reply! Heh.

Last edited by Boot_WB on 04-Apr-2015 at 12:17 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 14:32:48
#1339 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 887
From: Unknown

@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote:
@tonyw

Quote:
Once again (as stated right at the beginning), the creditor (don't know who it was or how much was involved) or the court (don't know and it doesn't matter) sent a letter to Hyperion's accountants threatening to have them declared bankrupt unless some bill was paid.


Tony, let's be realistic here. Creditors don't run to the court immediately, and especially not seeking to have their debtor declared insolvent. They send an invoice. Then they send a reminder. Then they send a final reminder. Then, usually, they send a threatening letter saying "unless you pay by date X, we will take you to court". Then a creditor might petition a court, although the more common next steps are probably to engage a collection agency, or to contact the debtor regarding an alternative payment arrangement. Or possibly to send some well-muscled gentlemen around to impress upon the debtor the importance of paying their debt.

Getting your debtor declared insolvent --- that's not the first choice. It's not even the second or third choice, usually, for a simple reason --- it's messy and it's expensive. Also, the benefit is rather small --- being a creditor of a bankrupt company, you are likely to end up with cents on the dollar. What little money there is has to be shared between all creditors, and that's after the costs of the administrator are paid, but before you have to pay your own lawyer to deal with all that crap.

So no, a single missed letter from the court does not get a company declared bankrupt. Not unless that company has neglected to pay its debts, leading to that letter being sent.


So you are saying that where there's smoke there's fire?



Naah, unthinkable when it comes to Hyperion!




@Trixie

Quote:

Trixie wrote:
@broadblues

We didn't really expect a swarm of well-wishers to round off this thread, did we?


Maybe you should take a moment to actually reflect upon why this is probably true?


@all

Anyway, I think Gutjahr's post sums it up pretty well.

I suppose you are prepared to go quite far when in the business of selling multi-thousand-euro non-profiteering charity computers...

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TRIPOS 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 4-Apr-2015 14:37:09
#1340 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 887
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

Quote:

Boot_WB wrote:

Interesting to note Hyperions' financial year ends December, which might explain the timing of 4.1FE's apparently rushed release.


Yes it's interesting to see how everything becomes clear when some time has passed and you get a better overview of the big picture...

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