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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
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PosterThread
Trixie 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 8:57:24
#1361 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1595
From: Czech Republic

@realize

Quote:
we were "happy" because we thought maybe it would break their death grip on the Amiga name and we would actually have a chance of some new hope and/or progress.

Fair enough, nobody's saying that Hyperion are performing as champions. But what was your expectation, other than the rather vague idea of a "new hope"? Did you expect some other company or investor to stand up, license the OS from Amiga Inc., and redevelop the system from the OS3.x sources? Or buy up all the sources for some serious cash, then generously make them open?

You say you were "happy"; so what was actually the source of your happiness? Did you envision a realistic plan, a viable solution to the current situation? Why don't you tell us, instead of your cheap talk and criticism?

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Boot_WB 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 11:39:16
#1362 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Trixie

Imho the best outcome would have been for the remaining interested parties to co-operate, Cloanto to acquire any remaining rights from the carcass of Hyperion (adding to the existing copyrights so as to not further fragment the IP), and then to license the out to name and any code that isn't redundant to any interested parties.

Mind you, if wishes were horses, we'd be knee deep in 5hit by now...

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Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 12:15:36
#1363 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1595
From: Czech Republic

@Boot_WB

Quote:
Imho the best outcome would have been for the remaining interested parties to co-operate

I can surely agree with that.

Quote:
Cloanto to acquire any remaining rights

'been wondering - where does all the recent trust in Cloanto come from? Just from owning the trademarks? From being the only ones who never got their hands dirty? I mean, what do we know about this company except that it has been selling a successful distribution of an emulator? Have they shown any real interest in the future of the OS? What makes you put so much hope in them? (Serious questions from a serious asker.)

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Boot_WB 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 12:52:31
#1364 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Trixie

Quote:

Trixie wrote:
@Boot_WB

Quote:
Cloanto to acquire any remaining rights

'been wondering - where does all the recent trust in Cloanto come from? Just from owning the trademarks? From being the only ones who never got their hands dirty? I mean, what do we know about this company except that it has been selling a successful distribution of an emulator? Have they shown any real interest in the future of the OS? What makes you put so much hope in them? (Serious questions from a serious asker.)


- Lack of a partisan position makes them unique (afaics) amongst Amiga 'businesses';
- Stable business footing, ie having just 'got on with it' for several years;
- Holder of previous copyrights, agglomeration of IP being better than further fragmentation;
- Professional business attitude - hence they have been able to instigate and maintain agreements with parties that others wouldn't touch (Ainc f.ex).

Basically, they act like grownups and have a successful established business which is earning revenue _without_ relying on ever dwindling sales from a shrinking puddle of a market. In fact their primary market (emulation) is likely growing.

Licensing out would cost them next to nothing, with near zero risk aside from the initial investment... Shrewd business people like Trevor/Michael would likely collaborate rather than bid against each other if such a situation arose where Hyperion's few assets (license agreements, and any 4.x developed assets) were up for auction.

The scenario of AmigaOS owned (for all intents and purposes) by a stable business with revenue independent of the AmigaNG 'market' (rather than the Hail Mary approach to business plans seen over the last decade(s)) seems the most desirable prospect I can envisage from the current mess.

/serious face

Not sure I'd wish such a position onto Cloanto though, they seem to do quite well as they are...

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Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 13:16:28
#1365 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 808
From: Unknown

@Trixie

Quote:

where does all the recent trust in Cloanto come from? Just from owning the trademarks?

Traditionally, that buys you tons of trust from the community

(Edit: Not the trademarks, the software rights)

Quote:

I mean, what do we know about this company except that it has been selling a successful distribution of an emulator?

They've been active since the late eighties, did contract work on some OS components (printer drivers, IIRC?) for Commodore, donated most of their commercial software to the community once they were no longer viable commercial products and are successfully developing and maintaining Amiga Forever for nearly 20 years. As far as Amiga companies are concerned - especially those still active after Commodore's demise - that's quite an impressive track record.

Plus they acquired all those rights years ago and didn't make a fuss about it - I find that quite refreshing.

But in the end, it comes down to this: You either keep bending over for Ben Hermans, who has been keeping AmigaOS hostage for years (just refer to this thread's original topic, if you need evidence) and is the main reason for the complete stand still - or you try to come up with a solution involving Cloanto, which probably means loosing THE NAME, but might give you a way to move forward with the actual OS.

I don't know if that's even possible or if Cloanto would be willing to do that (a lot of people are very scared of Ben Hermans, for some reason). And Trevor Dickinson obviously decided that his X5000 investment is safer with Mr. Hermans - so if Cloanto ever was an option, that door has already been closed again for the next few years.

But I get that people would be hoping for any change, given the current situation.

Last edited by cgutjahr on 08-Apr-2015 at 01:30 PM.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 13:18:16
#1366 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 808
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB
Quote:

Basically, they act like grownups

I couldn't come up with a good summary, but that one hits the nail on the head.

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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 13:27:58
#1367 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1595
From: Czech Republic

@Boot_WB, cgutjahr

Thank you both for your input.

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Seiya 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 17:16:09
#1368 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1373
From: Italia

so at the end Hyperion is safe.
Good end of amiga telenovela

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 18:09:11
#1369 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Your blind hatred towards me is blinding you from the obvious fact that AmigaOS 4.x development is and has been ongoing.

We just released AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition for a very low price late last year.

As every betatester can attest, and I am sure you have access to them, there are DAILY updates of the OS for testing purposes.

This whole notion that Hyperion is sitting on its ass is nonsense.

Who do you think is working on getting AmigaOS 4.1 on the new A-EON hardware?

I won't engage you here. I'll be present at the Amiga show in Amsterdam for the celebration of 30 years of Amiga.

If you have the balls, come up to me and we will talk.

You claim to be a journalist, well, here is your chance.

E-mail or fora posts are sterile and tiresome media.

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blizz1220 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 19:08:56
#1370 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

As far as I know this was as official statement as it
can be at this point of time because one mustn't always
comment on one's own legal situation.

This thread can hence be only used for speculation
and should be maybe locked ?

Last edited by blizz1220 on 08-Apr-2015 at 07:09 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 19:15:52
#1371 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8425
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Quote:
and should be maybe locked ?


Wasn´t our goal 1500 posts?

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blizz1220 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 19:25:27
#1372 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@pavlor


Quote:
Wasn´t our goal *10 000 posts* ?


Yes , until "official" news as forum posts can't be
considered that official and it just came.

One of the biggest speculation is that A-Eon has
paid Hyperion's debts (not sure if they even exist)
and it may or may not be true and if it isn't than
it's not only insultive to Hyperion but can actually
cause further harm.


So maybe @TrevorDick could comment on that
or land a hint or a puzzle about A-Eon's future plans.

Last edited by blizz1220 on 08-Apr-2015 at 07:28 PM.
Last edited by blizz1220 on 08-Apr-2015 at 07:27 PM.
Last edited by blizz1220 on 08-Apr-2015 at 07:26 PM.

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 19:38:14
#1373 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Hyperion's debts were not paid by A-EON or anybody associated with A-EON.

What happened was is that Hyperion was declared bankrupt BY DEFAULT without having the ability to defend itself. The conditions for bankruptcy were never present.

The default judgment was challenged, Hyperion was represented in court and the court withdrew its original judgment with retroactive effect i.e. Hyperion never was bankrupt in the eyes of the law.

All there is to it.

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blizz1220 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 19:40:01
#1374 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@Hyperionmp

Thank you for clearing the facts.

Best of luck in future.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 19:52:17
#1375 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 686
From: Arizona

@blizz1220

Quote:

blizz1220 wrote:
@pavlor

One of the biggest speculation is that A-Eon has
paid Hyperion's debts (not sure if they even exist)
and it may or may not be true and if it isn't than
it's not only insultive to Hyperion but can actually
cause further harm.


Seriously? The court has already declared Hyperion bankrupt/insolvent based on the fact that they hadn't paid their creditors and/or debts. Courts don't make such motions without good reason or without a basis. The entity filing suit against Hyperion had to present evidence of such debts to get the order granted. They'll remain bankrupt until Hyperion can show proof that it has paid said debts or can show that they weren't liable for said debts in the first place.

A-Eon buying out Hyperion or saving them from insolvency won't change things one bit. NG PPC Amiga hardware will still be under-powered, under-supported and over priced....and the OS will still be stuck in the year 2003. Even the latest Southern Islands video driver updates had me shaking my head. Sure, there are more cards to choose from now, as well there should be since ATI 9XXX cards are so scarce these days. The Southern Islands benchmarks are simply terrible compared to other systems out there running the same GPUs on a different operating systems. The update is simply another stop-gap measure for people who want to buy an NG Amiga motherboard who can't source the older cards any longer.

A-Eon would be better served by going with x86 AROS but then they'd alienate their fanatical PPC customer base who paid ridiculous sums of money for the X1000. But hey, it worked for Apple when they finally saw that PPC CPUs had come to the end of the road. So why not for A-Eon? If they continue to cling to PPC, A-Eon will be headed down the same path as Hyperion.

Last edited by ferrels on 08-Apr-2015 at 07:56 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 20:07:43
#1376 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4125
From: Portsmouth England

@ferrels

PLease pay attention, the judgement was overturned already, and Hyperion are not and never were bankrupt.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 22:23:18
#1377 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 686
From: Arizona

@broadblues

Pay attention. It doesn't change a thing. You still have an OS that's stuck in the year 2000 with overpriced, underpowered, under supported hardware. And even though they've now been declared solvent, it doesn't bode well for them long-term. Legal and financial issues at this point in time will continue to increase since no one other than fanatical PPC zealots would even consider buying an x1000 and OS4.

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ne_one 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 22:47:23
#1378 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 735
From: Unknown

Lots of strong opinions but regardless of positioning, it's reassuring to see that Hyperion has prevailed.

It's not clear if Ben will resurface but for those unable to attend the anniversary gatherings it would be helpful if there was a better of understanding of where Hyperion stands on a few items:

1. Does Hyperion remain limited to specific CPU architectures for which it can develop and promote the Amiga OS?

2. Given the requisite licensing and resources would Hyperion pursue completely new "NG" development or prefer to focus on extending and enhancing the legacy technology?

3. Is there any active dialog between Hyperion and Amiga regarding current and prospective opportunities?


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klx300r 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 8-Apr-2015 23:14:29
#1379 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3178
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

ferrels wrote:

...A-Eon would be better served by going with x86 AROS but then they'd alienate their fanatical PPC customer base who paid ridiculous sums of money for the X1000. But hey, it worked for Apple when they finally saw that PPC CPUs had come to the end of the road. So why not for A-Eon? If they continue to cling to PPC, A-Eon will be headed down the same path as Hyperion.


Just like the A3000 & A4000's when they came out if you think the X1000, A1-500 (Sam460) (or X5000 for that matter) are too expensive then don't buy one...plain and simple..and use what you want.

Keep in mind A-Eon, more specifically Trevor, stated more than once that if the X1000 didn't generate enough interest / revenue for A-Eon then there would be no further investment in new AmigaOne hardware for AmigaOS (aka PPC hardware). So the fact that new boards are being developed means that the above two criteria were met.

x86 AROS has been around for quite a while and it's freely available for people to enjoy with many PC configurations today so what exactly is A-Eon going to manufacture for an open source Amiga inspired OS that isn't already available ? AmigaOS fans have been waiting for new modern hardware to run their favourite OS for many years and A-Eon and ACube thankfully came in and filled the demand.

For ANY Amiga/ Amiga inspired hardware to be successful there must be a DEMAND for it. No demand then no company will produce any goods...basic business/ economic facts

Last edited by klx300r on 08-Apr-2015 at 11:17 PM.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 9-Apr-2015 0:20:15
#1380 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 686
From: Arizona

@ne_one

Quote:

ne_one wrote:
Lots of strong opinions but regardless of positioning, it's reassuring to see that Hyperion has prevailed.

It's not clear if Ben will resurface but for those unable to attend the anniversary gatherings it would be helpful if there was a better of understanding of where Hyperion stands on a few items:

1. Does Hyperion remain limited to specific CPU architectures for which it can develop and promote the Amiga OS?

2. Given the requisite licensing and resources would Hyperion pursue completely new "NG" development or prefer to focus on extending and enhancing the legacy technology?

3. Is there any active dialog between Hyperion and Amiga regarding current and prospective opportunities?




Prevailed? Explain how maintaining the status quo is reassuring? Hyperion has only managed a pitiful handful of updates to OS4 in the past 10 years to an OS that's a time-warp back to 1995. At such a rate of progress, NG Amigas should be moved to the field of archeology and out of the realm of computer science.



Last edited by ferrels on 09-Apr-2015 at 12:23 AM.
Last edited by ferrels on 09-Apr-2015 at 12:22 AM.

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