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      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
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realize 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 15-Apr-2015 23:08:59
#1541 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1761
From: nyc

@sundown

"Amigaworld" was never "OS4 only"

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realize 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 15-Apr-2015 23:12:07
#1542 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2003
Posts: 1761
From: nyc

@kolla

hahah your funny :)


@ the fanboys in the thread

You guys remind me of a friend of mine whos gf used to cheat on him all the time and he thought she was sooo wonderful.. Hyperion releasing their clutches on os4 would have been the best news in years.

BTW HYPERION MP I ASK AGAIN ARE YOU GOING TO POST SOMETHING INFORMATIVE OR CONSTRUCTIVE OR YOU JUST COME ON HERE TO "TROLL"?


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sundown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 2:29:46
#1543 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5098
From: Right here...

@realize

Quote:
BTW HYPERION MP I ASK AGAIN ARE YOU GOING TO POST SOMETHING INFORMATIVE OR CONSTRUCTIVE OR YOU JUST COME ON HERE TO "TROLL"?

Careful, you'll just blow more brain cells yelling at 'the hand'.

Last edited by sundown on 16-Apr-2015 at 02:45 AM.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

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sundown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 3:05:31
#1544 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5098
From: Right here...

This makes me want to cry http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2140&forum=7
I wonder how that thread would go today.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

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umisef 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 3:32:15
#1545 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1655
From: Melbourne, Australia

@sundown

Quote:
I wonder how that thread would go today.


Probably pretty much the same way --- the mechanics of self-congratulation haven't changed much in 12 years. Just like the arguments in this thread should sound pretty familiar, too...

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ne_one 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 3:38:39
#1546 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 737
From: Unknown

@utri007

Quote:

PPC has much better hobby value than x86 has. I have some twenty Computers in my home and only one of them has PPC cpu.

I wouldn't understand any reason to use any Amigish OS with x86, as every other OSes does everything better and has much better software catalogy.


Let's think about this for a second...

You personally own 20 computers and one is PPC? Let's assume the majority are x86-based.

And you would gladly pay an exorbitant amount for a dedicated PPC system because it offers better hobby value? Really...?

For a long time, Hyperion used the mainstreaming argument: "if we port the AmigaOS to x86 platforms people will stop using it in favour of [x]."

That argument was inane a decade ago and it makes even less sense now. Ditto for the piracy claims and endian orientation challenges and driver compatibility issues.

There is a small industry built around emulating the Amiga on other platforms. People buy these solutions because they are not going to continue to invest in proprietary hardware when inexpensive, highly-capable alternatives are available.

x86 support has never *ever* been about mainstreaming the Amiga to fight the big fight or about which CPU is better.

It's all about a-c-c-e-s-s.

A native x86-based version of AmigaOS would be viable. Anything else is going to be a Wikipedia footnote.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 4:52:02
#1547 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 688
From: Arizona

@ne_one

Quote:

ne_one wrote:
@utri007

Quote:

PPC has much better hobby value than x86 has. I have some twenty Computers in my home and only one of them has PPC cpu.

I wouldn't understand any reason to use any Amigish OS with x86, as every other OSes does everything better and has much better software catalogy.


Let's think about this for a second...

You personally own 20 computers and one is PPC? Let's assume the majority are x86-based.

And you would gladly pay an exorbitant amount for a dedicated PPC system because it offers better hobby value? Really...?

For a long time, Hyperion used the mainstreaming argument: "if we port the AmigaOS to x86 platforms people will stop using it in favour of [x]."

That argument was inane a decade ago and it makes even less sense now. Ditto for the piracy claims and endian orientation challenges and driver compatibility issues.

There is a small industry built around emulating the Amiga on other platforms. People buy these solutions because they are not going to continue to invest in proprietary hardware when inexpensive, highly-capable alternatives are available.

x86 support has never *ever* been about mainstreaming the Amiga to fight the big fight or about which CPU is better.

It's all about a-c-c-e-s-s.

A native x86-based version of AmigaOS would be viable. Anything else is going to be a Wikipedia footnote.


Finally, someone here with some common sense! Watch out, you'll get banned or the PPC fanatics will attack!

I honestly think that the entire reason why Hyperion has clung so stubbornly to the PPC architecture is that they don't have the expertise nor the capitol to attract the expertise for porting OS4 to any other architecture, let alone the expertise needed to modify it for SMP, multi-user, security, etc..... I also suspect the annual revenues from OS4 wouldn't even pay my electric bill for one month let alone pay any salaries for more than an hour or two.

All the excuses we've heard and the mis-information about certain features being just around the corner are nothing more than smoke and mirrors that have allowed Hyperion to continue selling a few copies now and then with minimal overhead. And the only reason A-Eon has chosen an embedded PPC SOC for the X5000 is because it allows them to charge boutique prices for basement level performance. Same goes for the X1000. I'm still pissed that one of the selling points for that board was the Xena chip, which to this day is totally useless under OS4 AND Linux. It was merely a sales gimmick to attract classic Amiga enthusiasts, nothing more, nothing less. While this is great for A-Eon because it allows them to manufacture overpriced, under powered boards, it hasn't helped Hyperion in the least or we wouldn't see Hyperion in the state it's in today.

Last edited by ferrels on 16-Apr-2015 at 04:53 AM.

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resle 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 6:51:40
#1548 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 483
From: shanghai

@ferrels
@ne_one


Hyperion was created to try porting a couple games. They did a good job and this led the idiotic management of Amiga Inc to hand them over the sources to AmigaOS for a one-time porting project.

Instead, they never gave the sources back, and kept the OS hostage by the mean of legal and administrative tricks.

Today they keep the OS on PPC in part because they haven't the skill to port it, in part because probably A-Eon and ACube must be passing them a cut of their sales to do so (or their business would cease to exist)

It's just a story of incompetency, miserable tricks, and greed - no matter how you look at it.

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agami 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 7:45:25
#1549 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 485
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ne_one

What did you say about PPC? How dare you?!?!
The PowerPC architecture is the industry's best ever architecture. Humans didn't actually design this architecture.;One night, an IBM chip designer left the designs for the Power CPU on his desktop, and when he came back next morning there was a completely new and awesome design on the screen.

No other chip design is better than PPC. I mean, other than Alpha, and Larrabee, and maybe SPARC, and MIPS has some nice things in there. But other than those, the PowerPC is the best ISA on the planet. It can do everything ARM can do and everything a Xeon can do. You don't even need a GPU, just stick another PPC CPU in your machine.

x86 is for the peasants, PPC is for nobility. It's like a fine wine or cognac, you don't sip it slowly because it costs so much, but because you are better than the people who buy wine by the cask.

It doesn't matter what you run on a PPC, each CPU cycle brings one closer to the designer.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 7:55:31
#1550 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 688
From: Arizona

@agami

Yeah, I had a premonition that the PPC design was done by aliens held hostage at Area 51 and IBM simply facilitated it. The thought came to me while I was standing inside a pyramid and holding a crystal over my head and chanting my mantra, which at the time was, "All your base belong to us!"

Your comments confirm it!

Last edited by ferrels on 16-Apr-2015 at 07:57 AM.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 8:17:06
#1551 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 688
From: Arizona

@resle

Quote:

resle wrote:
@ferrels
@ne_one


Hyperion was created to try porting a couple games. They did a good job and this led the idiotic management of Amiga Inc to hand them over the sources to AmigaOS for a one-time porting project.

Instead, they never gave the sources back, and kept the OS hostage by the mean of legal and administrative tricks.

Today they keep the OS on PPC in part because they haven't the skill to port it, in part because probably A-Eon and ACube must be passing them a cut of their sales to do so (or their business would cease to exist)

It's just a story of incompetency, miserable tricks, and greed - no matter how you look at it.



Yes, and I get so tired of the fanatics here who think Trevor is in the business simply out of love for the Amiga or out of some twisted form of altruism. They speak of him in hushed tones like he's a manifestation of the second coming. They also point out, without any objective data, that he's invested a fortune of his own money in "keeping the dream alive". I call BS on that one because of all the pre-orders for X1000s that were taken and the late delivery on all those orders. The bulk of any investment was generated from those orders. He may love Amigas but I don't know of any businessman whose goal is to simply break even or to lose money. Piru and the MorphOS folks also talk about how MorphOS isn't a business and how they make very little from the sale of each license. I challenged him to provide some numbers to which he refused. I told him that if MorphOS wasn't a business as he insisted, then they needed to stop charging a sizable fee for each license, give copies away for free, or make it shareware. Of course that'll never happen. So I totally agree with you. Every entity involved in the NG Amiga scene is motivated by greed to some degree. Incompetency, and miserable tricks, yep, that too. Can you say Xena? And let's not forget the ridiculous false hints from Hyperion over a year ago that SMP development was progressing......bullsh@t!

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Manu 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 8:27:11
#1552 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

I like where this thread is going.

Finally, no beating around the bush.

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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olegil 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 10:29:32
#1553 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5887
From: Work

@ferrels

Ah, good old "only x86 is viable" argument. Which goes so well together with the "not teh original Amiga" argument previously displayed ad nauseam in this very thread.

Besides, you have your x86 Amiga OS, it's called AROS and has existed since like forever. Why the need to slag off other peoples interests?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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Bugala 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 11:49:36
#1554 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 568
From: Finland

@ferrels

Quote:
I told him that if MorphOS wasn't a business as he insisted, then they needed to stop charging a sizable fee for each license, give copies away for free, or make it shareware.


Im just making a guess here, But I think what he meant when it comes to MorphOS, and what is propably true in Trevors case as well is that the business opportunity itself is not the motivation behind doing things, that if you think it as normal business, it makes no sense. Hence the motivation is elsewhere than in real serious business, and needs to be watched differently from other businesses that are serious money making businesses.

That they are businesses, but not really serious money making businesses with lucrative opportunities, but they are businesses that you get into because you love doing them. And that there is at least little money coming back, and there is always the hope that one day they at least could become serious money making businesses (even if its not likely) is enough to justify yourself to work on them.


If we take MorphOS team as example. I have no idea how money actually moves there (if it does), but I could imagine that it could be so that each year some core developers get maybe 1 000 euros or something from their works.

If you think that as a real job or business, then that is terrible. To live whole year with 1 000.

But if you think you are having a hobby that makes you extra 1 000 euros a year. Well, that isnt bad at all. For how many people actually have hobbies that bring them 1 000 euros a year, instead of just take money?
I can also easily see that you can even justify using some more time on your hobby to your wife based upon you receiving extra 1 000 each year, making you being able to concentrate on your hobby better as it isnt the thing you are supposed to do only after having done everything else like having took the trash out, but wife might actually herself carry the trashcan out, so you can concentrate more on that 1 000 euros extra giving hobby.

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Hillbillylitre 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 13:14:13
#1555 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2015
Posts: 270
From: Unknown

Amiga is more a game console for most people.

Commodore called their 8088 and x86 machines PC compatible machines. I can remember PC-10 used 8088 and ATI graphics card. Some Commodore PCs used even Commodore microsoft Windows 3.1. Today I would call Window, Mac or Linux on x86 a PC, and AmigaOS4 on PPC a freak.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 16:48:58
#1556 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 688
From: Arizona

@Bugala

Quote:

Bugala wrote:
@ferrels

Quote:
I told him that if MorphOS wasn't a business as he insisted, then they needed to stop charging a sizable fee for each license, give copies away for free, or make it shareware.


Im just making a guess here, But I think what he meant when it comes to MorphOS, and what is propably true in Trevors case as well is that the business opportunity itself is not the motivation behind doing things, that if you think it as normal business, it makes no sense. Hence the motivation is elsewhere than in real serious business, and needs to be watched differently from other businesses that are serious money making businesses.

That they are businesses, but not really serious money making businesses with lucrative opportunities, but they are businesses that you get into because you love doing them. And that there is at least little money coming back, and there is always the hope that one day they at least could become serious money making businesses (even if its not likely) is enough to justify yourself to work on them.


If we take MorphOS team as example. I have no idea how money actually moves there (if it does), but I could imagine that it could be so that each year some core developers get maybe 1 000 euros or something from their works.

If you think that as a real job or business, then that is terrible. To live whole year with 1 000.

But if you think you are having a hobby that makes you extra 1 000 euros a year. Well, that isnt bad at all. For how many people actually have hobbies that bring them 1 000 euros a year, instead of just take money?
I can also easily see that you can even justify using some more time on your hobby to your wife based upon you receiving extra 1 000 each year, making you being able to concentrate on your hobby better as it isnt the thing you are supposed to do only after having done everything else like having took the trash out, but wife might actually herself carry the trashcan out, so you can concentrate more on that 1 000 euros extra giving hobby.


I'm also very weary of all those pointing out that just because Amigas are a hobby that the ridiculously high prices for hardware or software are somehow justifiable. Business is business, whether it's a hobby, a part-time venture, or a full-time job. MorphOS programmers have full-time jobs outside of MorphOS and work for a fee periodically on MOS updates. That's called contract work for those who don't understand. Businesses do that sort of thing all the time. It isn't done out of love or as charitable volunteer work. It's the same with Hyperion. The recent GPU driver updates were completed by Hans who was paid a fee for his work via a contract mechanism. Hans didn't perform the work out of charity or love and the same can be said for Trevor regarding the X1000/X5000. I'll say it again, businessmen don't set out to break even and neither do the folks who work for a business on a contract basis.

You whine about how little money some of these businesses earn in a year and you think that's just horrible. Here's an idea. If these businesses offered a product that people wanted or valued, maybe their sales would increase and they'd make more money. In some cases, lowering the price of a product so that more can afford it causes sales to skyrocket and profits can be enlarged by selling in volume. It's the law of the free market. Unless and until a business offers something that people want and can afford, they will eventually go out of business. And that's as it should be. This entire Hyperion debacle reminds me of some recent Ponzi schemes as does the hardware situation.

Last edited by ferrels on 16-Apr-2015 at 04:50 PM.

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Spectre660 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 18:03:58
#1557 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3569
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Na.
My former neighbor the infamous texan ponzarian reminds me of real Ponzi schemes .

_________________

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BigD 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 18:12:36
#1558 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4139
From: UK

@ferrels

Quote:
Every entity involved in the NG Amiga scene is motivated by greed to some degree.


It's called capitalism and it's how businesses work. Greed is when companies put shareholders and corporate bonuses ahead of customers and their workforce. This does not apply to Trevor, A-EON, Hyperion, ACube or the MorphOS team. Your deluded if you think this a great rich quick scheme! This isn't like the Phoenix Four extorting money from MG Rover. This isn't like banks lending to sub-prime house buyers during the credit crunch. This is just some enthusiasts trying to make a business out of something they love. I hope they make a profit out of their endeavours to be honest, there's something wrong if they don't. This isn't communist Russia, this is good capitalism and there's nothing wrong with a small scale IT companies having a go of it!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Pixar Animation Studios

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 19:10:02
#1559 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 688
From: Arizona

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@ferrels

Quote:
Every entity involved in the NG Amiga scene is motivated by greed to some degree.


It's called capitalism and it's how businesses work. Greed is when companies put shareholders and corporate bonuses ahead of customers and their workforce. This does not apply to Trevor, A-EON, Hyperion, ACube or the MorphOS team. Your deluded if you think this a great rich quick scheme! This isn't like the Phoenix Four extorting money from MG Rover. This isn't like banks lending to sub-prime house buyers during the credit crunch. This is just some enthusiasts trying to make a business out of something they love. I hope they make a profit out of their endeavours to be honest, there's something wrong if they don't. This isn't communist Russia, this is good capitalism and there's nothing wrong with a small scale IT companies having a go of it!


No kidding Sherlock. I understand businesses and capitalism quite well. You say the NG Amiga scene is driven by enthusiasm and love. Yeah, the love of money with companies enthusiastically taking the money of deluded PPC fanatics who somehow think that OS4 and end-of-life SOC PPC chips are going to take the world by storm if it just had this, that, or the other lacking feature or if we just wait another 20 years. Like David Hannum said so many years ago, "There's a sucker born every minute." And there will be people and companies like Trevor and Hyperion lining up to taking their money. $3000 USD for ANY motherboard, hobby or not, is simply ludicrous as is charging a fee for an OS4 that can't even stand up to Windows 98. So yes, it does apply to Trevor, A-Eon, Hyperion, Acube and the MOS Team.

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pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 16-Apr-2015 19:15:35
#1560 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@ferrels

Quote:
And there will be people and companies like Trevor and Hyperion


Im glad I gave them my money.

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