Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
5615 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

(Uses JAVA Applet and Port 1024)
Visit the Chatroom Website

Who's Online
 59 guest(s) on-line.
 0 member(s) on-line.



You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 amigakit:  20 mins ago
 TRIPOS:  22 mins ago
 smf:  38 mins ago
 Rob:  44 mins ago
 Musashi5150:  1 hr 20 mins ago
 Wizzard_o:  1 hr 47 mins ago
 TargExplorer:  2 hrs 26 mins ago
 Srtest:  4 hrs 24 mins ago
 Jasper:  4 hrs 47 mins ago
 QuikSanz:  4 hrs 50 mins ago

/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
Register To Post

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 Next Page )
PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 10:26:12
#1681 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5076
From: Unknown

@pavlor

everything you add makes design more complex and thus more expensive. It is not just sticking a chip on a plate. Everything must be connected and tested, don΄t you think?

so adding the chip adds much more than the costs of the chip

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 11:13:10
#1682 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8414
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Board costs were so high that some small adition plays no role. Eg. Cyrus board was originally Micro-ATX, but cost difference to full ATX board with more PCI/PCIe slots was minimal.


Edit: Cyrus was Micro-ATX, not Mini-ATX design.

Last edited by pavlor on 19-Apr-2015 at 11:28 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Kronos 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 11:23:57
#1683 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2079
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Define "minimal" ....

If the XMOS was really added as an afterthought then it surely has added >100€ to the cost which IMO isn't "minimal" even in a 3000€ product.

Looking at the evidence and giving Trevor some benefit of doubt on his buisness skills I still think it's far more likely that the X1000 is based on an existig P6T-design that for one reason or another allready had the XMOS onboard.

Adding those slots to the X5000 adds value for the costumer (even more if we remember how long it can take to have onboard components fully supported) and therefore can be a sensible descision.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 11:29:44
#1684 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8414
From: Unknown

@Kronos

Quote:
I still think it's far more likely that the X1000 is based on an existig P6T-design


Source for such claim?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 11:39:17
#1685 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5076
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Source for your view please

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 11:43:50
#1686 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5076
From: Unknown

@Kronos

Trevor is not designing boards as profession and it is obviously some kind of costly hobby to him. So the idea for those chips came propably from Varisys.

Adding it to X5000 might be adding less costs than it did for the X1000 but still I would like to see a real-world application for it that makes sense (expecially compared to a PC based solution).

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Kronos 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 12:06:42
#1687 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2079
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Was talking bout the extra PCI(e) slots on the X5000, Xorro is still just a brainfart.

@pavlor

Just giving Trevor/Varisys the benefit of the doubt here...

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Hillbillylitre 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 12:44:18
#1688 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2015
Posts: 270
From: Unknown

Is AmigaOS still DOS based?

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
amigakit 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 13:08:01
#1689 ]
Amiga Kit
Joined: 28-Jun-2004
Posts: 2140
From: www.amigakit.com


The X5000 Cyrus motherboard is a completely different design to the X1000 Nemo motherboard.

The e5500 chip is a very different architecture to the PA6T chip: DDR3 vs DDR2, Gen2 PCIe vs Gen1 PCIe, No Southbridge vs SB600 etc

To put things into perspective, a five digit sum of money was paid for just the design of the X5000 motherboard (the "NRE" which is the engineering and design costs)

Last edited by amigakit on 19-Apr-2015 at 01:10 PM.

_________________
Amiga Kit Amiga Store
Links: www.amigakit.com | New Products | AmigaOne X5000

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 13:08:49
#1690 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8414
From: Unknown

@Hillbillylitre

Quote:
Is AmigaOS still DOS based?


If you mean AmigaDOS, yes it is still there.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 13:11:34
#1691 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8414
From: Unknown

@amigakit

Will OS4 support all caches on e5500 (eg. 2 MB CoreNet Platform chache as L3)?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
retro 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 19:15:43
#1692 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@Kronos

If the XMOS was really added as an afterthought then it surely has added >100€ to the cost which IMO isn't "minimal" even in a 3000€ product.


stop talking like the price is 3000€, thease prices are unacceptable,dont give them any impresion that it will fly with thouse prices.. it out of porpotion... anyway this tread is soon to be a 100 pages if pepole goes on in here.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 19:26:59
#1693 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8414
From: Unknown

@retro

Quote:
anyway this tread is soon to be a 100 pages if pepole goes on in here.


That is our intention.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
retro 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 19:37:52
#1694 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Dec-2003
Posts: 969
From: Unknown

@pavlor

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
sundown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 19:50:22
#1695 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5094
From: Right here...

The Xorro was added for those who enjoy h/w hacking, seems Lyle was the only one that enjoyed doing that. I don't know of anyone who bought an x1000 for that feature anyway, but the trolls think we all did, just stupid. The slot is dual purpose, its a pcie x1/Xorro connector, so any pcie card will work there.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
amigadave 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 20:30:07
#1696 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote:
The Xorro was added for those who enjoy h/w hacking, seems Lyle was the only one that enjoyed doing that. I don't know of anyone who bought an x1000 for that feature anyway, but the trolls think we all did, just stupid. The slot is dual purpose, its a pcie x1/Xorro connector, so any pcie card will work there.



I don't think this is correct. You cannot put any PCIe card in the X1000's Xorro slot, as it is wired differently and connected to the Xena (XMOS) chip directly.

Lyle has just released (IIRC) the first publicly available Xorro card that is intended for beta testers and programmers. It is a data logger that uses the speed of the Xena chip to record (log events/data) and store that recorded information to a SD card at greater speed. Although the implementation of the Xena chip on the X1000 is limited in some ways, and they (A-Eon) have not paid to have the complete tool chain from XMOS ported to AmigaOS4.x, I still believe that talented Amiga programmers and hardware hackers will come up with some interesting uses for that connection and alternate processing power, even if it is not the most practical and efficient way of doing something, or utilizing the chip and interface.

Also, IIRC, it was the engineers, or owners of Varisys that suggested the XMOS chip be added to the Nemo board(s), not a requested item from either Hyperion developers, or Trevor. Trevor just probably asked how much extra it would cost, and gave the okay to add it on the advice and information available at the time. It is highly debatable that the advice he received then was wise, or prudent.

Personally, as an owner of an X1000, I like the fact that the Xena chip and Xorro interface are included, just because of the possibility that something interesting or cool may later be developed that uses them. If nothing ever is done with it (besides what Lyle has already released), I am okay with that too.

_________________
"Amiga" - The computer that inspired people to invent and create!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Kronos 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 20:53:19
#1697 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2079
From: Unknown

@sundown

Actually us "trolls" are the one that pointed out that most X1000-costumers have 0 use and very little interest in XMOS/Xorro making it an useless expense.

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
broadblues 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 20:55:00
#1698 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4119
From: Portsmouth England

@amigadave

Quote:

I don't think this is correct. You cannot put any PCIe card in the X1000's Xorro slot, as it is wired differently and connected to the Xena (XMOS) chip directly.


The XORRO socket is inline with abut not a part of the PCIE socket. This you can put in a special pcietoxorro bridge card giveing access to the system resoucres via the pcie bus or a plain xorro card or a plain pcie card.

I've no idea what if any of the first two options exists.

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
lylehaze 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 21:04:33
#1699 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1102
From: On the Florida - Georgia border.

@amigadave

I am delighted to read about Xorro and find so much _correct_ information! :) :)
I can add detail, as always.

The Xorro slot is actually a oddly sized PCIE slot mounted backwards, to prevent anything but a proper Xorro card to be inserted. The pinout is all specific to the Xena chip, so using it for anything else is impossible.
It is mounted in-line with a PCIeX1 slot, which is as normal and functional as any other PCIeX1 slot on the Nemo board.

So that debate ends in a draw, you are both correct. :)

There have been a few challenges that come with developing for Xena. There have also been a few adventurous users who have successfully played around with it. I am NOT the only one.

I don't usually speak about projects that I do for others, but I'll give a bit of a teaser on one topic.. The compiler for Xena chips requires a 32 bit x86 processor, which has been a bit of a "sticking point", preventing the development of Xena/Xorro code on an AmigaOS system. Any time you add the need to copy the xecutable from the dev system to the host system AFTER EVERY COMPILE, it really becomes a lot less fun.

I have, with my very limited networking skills, hacked together a set of scripts that allow me to make Xena projects without ever leaving the AmigaOS command line. It's not particularly fast or elegant, but the ability to do it all from one place is a big step in the right direction. There is a small, slow netbook running WinXP that is slaved to this task, but it can receive, process and return XC compile jobs from anywhere on the internet.
I have not shared this with the public because the puny little netbook would be overwhelmed by any serious workload. I have however, opened discussions with others who may (or may not) decide to host this service on a more capable system.

I think I've probably spent as much time on various incarnations of the "build system" as I have on the Sentinel X-Logger project itself.. And that's not a complaint, it's just doing what is needed to move forward.

I wish I could say more, but I think I am safe on the build system stuff, as I kinda made it up and hosted it myself so far..

What would be even better than a fast host computer? If I knew enough about how to set up a compile environment on a cloud server... that might be the very best solution of all. But that is so far out of my realm of experience, I could never try it without some expert guidance.

Xena has had a slow start. It may not ever be a "killer app".. but it's hard to rule anything out in this crazy world of AmigaOS.

_________________
question=(2b||!(2b))

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
lylehaze 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 19-Apr-2015 21:08:16
#1700 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1102
From: On the Florida - Georgia border.

@broadblues

The bare Xorro card populates both sockets, so anyone wanting to create a bridge device has a PCB ready for prototying.

Using each slot for different cards should be possible technically, but it would be a challenge mechanically.

Each of the projects (Yes, more than one!) I have wired up so far ignored the PCIe connections. I don't know enough about the bus requirements to make use of them.

_________________
question=(2b||!(2b))

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 | 88 | 89 | 90 | 91 | 92 | 93 | 94 | 95 Next Page )

[ home ][ about us ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright © 2000 - 2017 Amigaworld.net.

Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle