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      /  Hyperion Entertainment is not bankrupt
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Turrican3 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 11:05:09
#321 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 297
From: Italy

@asymetrix
I agree that tapping into a larger userbase is definitely a top priority.

But games, really? I mean, in the current market dominated by mobile games on one hand, and dedicated platforms with AAA efforts often ranging in the hundreds of millions dollar budgets on the other, the Amiga as it is now has absolutely no chance. Nothing. Nada.

BUT... that doesn't mean it can't get better than this.
I *do* still firmly believe entering the Amiga ecosystem should be made way cheaper, if only for hystorical reasons (low-end were by far the most popular machines, not the hi-end ones).

Yes I understand nowadays people choose Amiga as a hobby, just for fun, etc. But still, there's nothing, absolutely nothing to lose IMHO from offering an affordable platform first and then hoping people will look for better performance (basically what we did back then when expanding our good old C= Amigas).

For example, I think heavily reducing the price of OS4.1 FE was a very smart decision: I for one have decided to buy it because I want to try it with software emulation (aka UAE).
I wouldn't have bought it at 100€, but 30ish? Count me in!

This is why I think price is first and foremost what is preventing the current Amiga market from growing a healthy userbase. After all, I'm sure lots of people here remember of that someone who used to say We need to build computers for the masses, not the classes...

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DocBrown 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 11:07:05
#322 ]
New Member
Joined: 24-Jan-2006
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

@amigakit
Quote:
[...]we need software technologies to enable games porting and higher quality application software.

IMO the Amiga is good at running, guess, Amiga-Software :D. I.e., software with native APIs using the strengths of the system. Buying the old sources is a good idea, the more the better. Some more work on datatypes and we can probably exchange data with other systems.

If I need to browse the net or want to play I game, there's a PC running Windows in reach.

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danwood 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 11:58:40
#323 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2008
Posts: 1057
From: Unknown

I agree with a lot of points in this thread.

Firstly, OS4 current hardware model will never get big numbers. I was an OS4 user, I paid £700 for an A1XE around 10 years ago, and even that was a lot of money. Back then it did seem a bit more full of possibilities and it just happened to come around at a time when I had the spare cash. When my A1XE started dying I heard about the X1000, I was initially very interested... until I saw the price. I understand niche hardware is expensive, but there's no way I can justify 3,000 euros for a hobby machine. And if even I, a life-long Amiga fan isn't interested, then you've got no chance of attracting new users with the price/performance ratio. The Sam machines didn't interest me much as the 440 would have given less performance than my A1XE and the 460 felt in-beta as it was lacking too many drivers.

Instead, I simply moved all my data onto a Mac Mini G4 and bought a MorphOS licence, total cost was under 200 euro including hardware, and it out-performed by A1XE by almost double, and ran pretty much all the same software anyway, plus is driver complete, even down to stuff like onboard wifi, Bluetooth etc.

That said, even if the miracle happened and it got ported to the Raspberry Pi 2 and was open source and offered for free, you'd get some renewed interest, but probably only on the level that RISCOS enjoys on the Pi for example.

Even Linux distros like Ubuntu and Mint only make up 1% of the total desktop market, the days of AmigaOS being a serious challenger are 15 years too late I'm afraid.

For those saying it should be ported to phones and tablets, sorry but AmigaOS would make a horrible mobile OS. There's a reason Apple didn't just slap OS X on the iPhone/Pad, a touch OS and its applications need to be built/designed that way from the ground up.

Enjoy it as a hobby, and hopefully one day OS4 will get a PPC Mac port or even an ISA change, but it's not going to take over the world.


Last edited by danwood on 17-Feb-2015 at 12:27 PM.
Last edited by danwood on 17-Feb-2015 at 12:26 PM.
Last edited by danwood on 17-Feb-2015 at 12:00 PM.
Last edited by danwood on 17-Feb-2015 at 11:59 AM.

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ferrels 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 15:08:28
#324 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2005
Posts: 686
From: Arizona

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@ferrels

I do not understand what people think. Apprarently at least some are still dreaming of AmigaOS (or any other flavor) might become mainstream again and they think if you add SMP,64bit and MP it will again compete with Windows, Mac or Linux. I say it won´t.

Do we assume that magically there is a modern version of AmigaOS running 64bit with full MP, SMP, up to date drivers and so on.

Then the OS would technically be on same level as Windows or Linux. But it would still not have the developer resources, the money behind development, the software base and these are much more important than anything else.

So in my view it is more important to get up-to-date development environments with modern class-libraries that support different platforms (in best case even platforms like Windows or Linux) and to get dependencies ported (like the QT5 port) than MP. I do not say they are completely unimportant but not as important as some think. I say that as someone using development tools on windows for web and application development.


Updated developer tools and a cross-platform developer environment still doesn't provide a compelling reason for people or businesses to ditch their current investments in PC and Macs (both hardware and software) and invest huge sums of money in new hardware and software. Bringing OS4 up to parity with OSX or Windows still won't convince anyone to buy it or use it especially when the price is so ridiculously high. In the past, at least for the Amiga, there was always a "killer app" and it had a hardware edge over all the competing platforms. Those days are long gone, even for PCs and Macs. Heck, OS4 doesn't even support the most basic security requirements or multiple user accounts that 99% of businesses would call a "must have" capability. If I'm looking for a system that has QT5 and cross-platform capabilities, SMP, multi-user capabilities, and good security, they're already out there and relatively cheap. They're called PCs and Macs. OS4 and NG Amigas will continue to be in the realm of hobbyists just like BeOS. Both OSs missed the boat long ago and no amount of playing catch-up will change that.

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andres 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 15:21:27
#325 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 323
From: Firenze (Italy)

Quote:
Firstly, OS4 current hardware model will never get big numbers. I was an OS4 user, I paid £700 for an A1XE around 10 years ago, and even that was a lot of money. Back then it did seem a bit more full of possibilities and it just happened to come around at a time when I had the spare cash. When my A1XE started dying I heard about the X1000, I was initially very interested... until I saw the price. I understand niche hardware is expensive, but there's no way I can justify 3,000 euros for a hobby machine. And if even I, a life-long Amiga fan isn't interested, then you've got no chance of attracting new users with the price/performance ratio. The Sam machines didn't interest me much as the 440 would have given less performance than my A1XE and the 460 felt in-beta as it was lacking too many drivers.

This is the biggest point.
With actual price/performance ratio, it will be very very difficult to rise above 10.000 users, wich I guess is the first step for a small but real market.

Last edited by andres on 17-Feb-2015 at 03:21 PM.

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klx300r 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 16:02:23
#326 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3171
From: Toronto, Canada

Quote:

eliyahu wrote:
...much of what the "trolls" are saying is not only correct, but it is important that it be said (IMO )

-- eliyahu


quote of the year so far In the mean time I'll get back back to enjoying & having fun with my miggies (YES both NG & classics!) when my spare time allows because after all they STILL make me remember when computing was fun

_________________
____________________________
c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
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X1000 I BELIEVE

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OlafS25 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 17:20:28
#327 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5078
From: Unknown

@ferrels

of course not. Why investing in a market in the range of thousands of users when there are already markets in the millions. But when you have to invest a lot of extra work to port something you will not even think about it. When it is basically a recompile it is different.

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_Steve_ 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 21:13:58
#328 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Oct-2002
Posts: 6664
From: UK

@megol

Quote:

megol wrote:
@_Steve_

Now that's mature of you, it's almost as you didn't read the post replied to and/or never read posts from the person. Well I did and I have.

That there are a lot of people posting in this very forum that in fact _do_ follow the name and the name only is not in question - it should be obvious to anyone. There are quite a few people that even admit it straight out - and those I can respect and even partially understand.

I'm not using this as some kind of trolling bait (even though some people do) but as expressing my opinion. If you find it childish it's fine with me - I find the zombie worshipers childish.


Assuming you are viewing the forum as "threaded" then perhaps the post I hit "reply" on will not make much sense to you. Since I view it in a flat mode, the post I replied to was the last in the thread at the time.

However, as I neither made any reference to the post I hit reply on, nor referenced the person whose post it was, I fail to see the point behind your initial response here.

Considering I had just read over 13 pages of postings in this thread, your accusation of my not reading the post I replied to, or any previous ones is sadly unfounded at best.

Now if you read my post as well as you say you have, you will note that I stated I like to have open discussions take place on the site. However since that appears to be beyond some people who prefer the playground method of discussion - which essentially resorts to petty name calling and so forth, my point still stands. I have been here long enough to know that some people will not move on, and some will keep regurgitating the same things over and over, and quite frankly, some behaviour exhibited by some members is atrocious (and childish).

You will also have noticed that I quite clearly said:
Quote:
The childish "you only like this because of `The Name (tm)`" crap is tiresome at best


This was very implicit in stating that the argument that people only like OS4 because of the Amiga name is childish and tiresome. There are many users who simply like using the OS on the hardware they purchased. Others are using it via their classic machines or via UAE after the latest versions added PPC support. You do not have to be a follower of the Amiga brand name to enjoy using the OS, just as you don't have to be crazy about Genesi simply because they introduced MorphOS to a majority of its users. This argument about name following falls flat when you consider the hardware these OS's are used on don't even carry the Amiga name (the majority of Acube's systems being prime examples).

But I digress. My post was a general observation, pure and simple. I prefer to think that some people are adult enough to carry a decent argument/discussion without acting like a bunch of badly behaving school children. If people like to persist in this manner, then please don't go running off to cry about it when they are treated accordingly.

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_Steve_ 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 21:18:33
#329 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Oct-2002
Posts: 6664
From: UK

@andres

Quote:

andres wrote:
@amigakit
Agree, and even one or two iconic Amiga games remake (my dream, a Sensible Soccer remake) could help.


I was always a Kick Off 2 fan, never really liking SWOS - with one notable exception - a coverdisk which carried a WW2 edition where they replaced the ball with a hand grenade which randomly exploded taking out any nearby players, and which itself had an unpredictable movement when rolling or bouncing on the floor.

That version was pretty good - if only for the complete random nature of it making it interesting and unpredictable.

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amigadave 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 7:03:25
#330 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1525
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@TRIPOS

Your little hate rant is aimed at the wrong people, IMO. I admire people who actually do things to try to reach their goals, not people who whine and complain and never accomplish anything of their own. I may not agree with all of their decisions, but it does not stop me from admiring their dedication and perseverance to make things happen, when so many others only moan and complain, or write false promises.

I support MorphOS as being the current best choice of any Amiga NG OS, but they have failed to capture the minds and imaginations of the majority of current and former Amiga users, and only a handful of outside users. I don't say that to imply that any of the other choices have any larger user base, it is just that all of the different choices exist, because no single choice has been able to win everyone's loyalty and cause the elimination of the other choices. Each has its share of followers and users.

I can't understand why you think that what Trevor and Matthew have done has harmed the Amiga community, when all they have done is provide another choice for some users to buy if they choose to. They never claimed that their X1000 was for everyone, or even for most people (frankly, Trevor just wanted a better computer for himself to run AmigaOS4.x on, and he had the resources to make it happen). It is not Trevor's or Matthew's fault that a few hundred other Amiga users also wanted such a computer system. A-Cube has tried to provide cheaper PPC hardware, and anyone else is free to do the same. MorphOS running on G4 & G5 Mac hardware is an excellent choice (the best IMO), but AROS may some day in the future surpass the capabilities of both AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS.

If you are just angry because some Amiga users want more than can be accomplished with the older 68k Amiga hardware, or because Trevor and Matthew didn't spend their money the way you would have preferred, then your anger is pretty foolish IMO, as you can't control what other people want in life.

Last edited by amigadave on 18-Feb-2015 at 07:04 AM.

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"Amiga" - The computer that inspired people to invent and create!

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ne_one 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 7:08:19
#331 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 731
From: Unknown

Irrespective of the outcome of these proceedings, I'm left with two fundamental questions:

1. Does Amiga Inc. maintain any sort of active interest in the IP - financial or otherwise? Six years after the settlement it's clear that the trademark is the only element of value and it's increasingly becoming anecdotal. What is the true motivation for maintaining ownership?

2. From the standpoint of players involved in the remaining industry, it's understandable that the trademark and legacy are important. But does the IP ultimately provide any true value? After over 20 years, there is still a steadfast commitment to compatibility with resources devoted to three siloed efforts to maintain the status quo.

The amount of effort and grief that has been expended to keep this system alive has now surpassed the original investment by an order of magnitude. The time to jettison the baggage is long overdue. And that doesn't mean resolving "roadblocks", it means removing the obstacles entirely: technical and otherwise.

New proprietary hardware, new games, new apps and new OS features continuing along the same trajectory are only going to delay the inevitable.

The Amiga spirit shouldn't be preserved. It should be reborn.


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Trixie 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 8:04:06
#332 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1592
From: Czech Republic

@_Steve_

Quote:
This was very implicit in stating that the argument that people only like OS4 because of the Amiga name is childish and tiresome. There are many users who simply like using the OS on the hardware they purchased. [...] You do not have to be a follower of the Amiga brand name to enjoy using the OS, just as you don't have to be crazy about Genesi simply because they introduced MorphOS to a majority of its users. This argument about name following falls flat

It never ceases to amaze me that the "name following" / "blind religion" etc. argument keeps reoccurring again and again! I say, get stuffed with that horseshit! I'm really old enough to know why I chose and continue using OS4, and it has nothing to do with faith or brand worship. I just like the OS, and the fact that other OSes are superior (this includes MorphOS, the impressive development of which I truly admire) are quite irrelevant to me.

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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Hondo 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 9:23:18
#333 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1340
From: Denmark

@ne_one

Quote:
The Amiga spirit shouldn't be preserved. It should be reborn


Indeed you are right, but sadly no multi billion dollar company has done that, and probably won't. And that's a fact.

Instead we have Hyperion, A-Eon and Amigakit, MorphOS, and AROS, and others fighting hard to breathe life back into the Amiga spirit. It maybe via their own respective paths, and "wrong expensive NG stuff" but all of us should celebrate the fact that there is still development on the "Amiga" - both hardware and software.

No matter if it is AOS4, MOS, or AROS...

IT'S ALL GREAT AMIGA SPIRIT

LONG LIVE THE AMIGA!







_________________
On Planet Boing Trevor is God

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tripper 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 9:33:07
#334 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2013
Posts: 16
From: Unknown

@amigadave

quote: Your little hate rant is aimed at the wrong people, IMO. I admire people who actually do things to try to reach their goals, not people who whine and complain and never accomplish anything of their own. I may not agree with all of their decisions, but it does not stop me from admiring their dedication and perseverance to make things happen, when so many others only moan and complain, or write false promises.


There is a wisdom in a sentence I've always remembered to hold on to. That is: critics are failed artists. Harshly put, but it has truth in it. In my own life I've noticed that when I've failed to approach things I really should be doing innately, I've seen those qualities in myself, albeit tried to keep them to myself (though it had a tendency to leak in some way or another). It is a reality in a sense of a psychological dynamic. If some action is missing in life that one feels one should be taking, there is a tendency to play it as a shadow, ie. project it in a negative sense outside. Speaking as generalization here of course and not pointing fingers to any person as such. Personally I see flaws as an assesment of a situation which can be corrected. Creative act is always personal in a sense of letting the will to create and make something happen (not to please others, but just in sake of wanting something to happen), yet the ground which it is born and which I'd include here is the community and platform that at least ideally can be supportive of reminding this. So all the best for making things fresh again. We all fail time to time, and that is not a bad thing unless there is a tendency to dwell on it.

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paolone 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 9:56:02
#335 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 924
From: Unknown

@DocBrown

Quote:

Buying the old sources is a good idea


Buying the old sources is good idea ONLY if you can exclude ANY will from the original authors to open them and let people see, use, compile and modify them as they wish. THIS would be the best idea.

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paolone 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 9:57:11
#336 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2007
Posts: 924
From: Unknown

@amigadave

Quote:
Your little hate rant is aimed at the wrong people, IMO. I admire people who actually do things to try to reach their goals, not people who whine and complain and never accomplish anything of their own. I may not agree with all of their decisions, but it does not stop me from admiring their dedication and perseverance to make things happen, when so many others only moan and complain, or write false promises.


Adolf Hitler had a great plan and gave it a lot of dedication and perseverance. Would you admire him as well?

Aside jokes, I guess there are good and bad plans. Tripos might have been wrong saying that Trevor and Matt hurt the Amiga much more than McEwen and company (after all, AmigaOS 4 current market strategies have been heavily influenced by all the mistakes made by McEwen and co.), but we should agree with him that sticking the AmigaOS to ridiculously overpriced and underpowered hardware has not been a great idea. Thanks Toni is now possible to run it on WinUAE, at least some viable platform to run it on now exists. The X1000 has too much flaws to be marketable in the current IT world, and that's a matter of facts, not a personal opinion. I wish Trevor luck, anyway, for his buyouts in old software, I hope he will gain back at least what he spent for it.

Last edited by paolone on 18-Feb-2015 at 10:06 AM.

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Hondo 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 11:13:47
#337 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1340
From: Denmark

@paolone

Quote:
Adolf Hitler had a great plan and gave it a lot of dedication and perseverance. Would you admire him as well?


Dude we're talking about a computer platform - bringing in Hitler analogies is really bad style

_________________
On Planet Boing Trevor is God

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kamelit0 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 12:21:42
#338 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2011
Posts: 580
From: Unknown

AROS is running on many architectures and it still not getting enough users.
Morphos same for PPC Mac, there's millions of Mac users still owning a PPC HW but they stay with an outdated and unsupported OSX, they're not switching to Morphos. Some switch to Linux...

This logically imply that a migration to X86 will not help, maybe they should go the Next way of doing things back then with OpenStep, an OS4 version running hosted on Windows/Mac/Linux. (I know that AROS do this)
What will sell the most is an Amiga in a Joystick.
Jens seems also to have something big with Clone-A, maybe he should talk to Trevor about it...

For now, I'll stick to 68k, more specifically emulation and FPGAArcade, as FPGA get faster overtime, 68k machines will be more powerful. The only drawback is that there's no official updates since OS3.9.
I'm sure that an updated 68k OS will sell a lot more than a PPC one, so why not back port the new feature present in OS4?
Cloanto your thoughts about this?

Kamelito

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andres 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 12:31:46
#339 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 323
From: Firenze (Italy)

In my opinion, the biggest limits of the AROS project are mainly related to the model chosen (similar to the confusing Linux distributions), organization, strategy (i.e. the idea of supporting more and more hardware, from x86/64 to PowerPC, to 68k and more...).

A model like Haiku, with an only and official distro simply called AROS on x86, with the few resources all focused on that, would have helped a lot more.

Last edited by andres on 18-Feb-2015 at 12:33 PM.
Last edited by andres on 18-Feb-2015 at 12:33 PM.
Last edited by andres on 18-Feb-2015 at 12:32 PM.

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A1200/020+68882 - 6 MB RAM - AmigaOS 3.0

Home Recording Audio

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eliyahu 
Re: Hyperion Entertainment bankrupt?
Posted on 18-Feb-2015 12:47:19
#340 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1726
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@thread

Quote:
Adolf Hitler had a great plan and gave it a lot of dedication and perseverance. Would you admire him as well?

and, just like that, godwin's law is proved yet again. well done.

-- eliyahu

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