@wawa

"amiga is past, accept it. we can play around a bit to see what could be done with it trying to preserve a kind of identity it had. that is what people behind aros or fpga projects honestly do. but acting and talking as if it was or could become commercially viable is bull, as it was told many times."

So you're basically claiming that time has created this situation rather than those in charge of the ecosystem?

"what will you be left with? you have ditched amiga hardware technology, almost all amiga standards. as soon as you replace it all by linux counterparts, because where else are going to borrow them, there is no manpower to develop it on your own, what difference there will be to other linux distributions?"

The Amiga hardware is irrelevant and has already been replaced by mainstream components that don't even resemble the original 30 year old technology.

As for the standard "if it's based on Linux it won't be an Amiga" argument, it's pretty clear that at least one extremely successful industry player was able to transition to a Unix-based environment and no one ever blinks twice.

@ne_one

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The problem is Hyperion.

"they" are only a manifestation of a problem.

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Where there's smoke, there's fire

but not necessarily able to be a flame again.

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1. Secure ownership/use of the trademark. 2. Secure ownership/right to use any IP of value from Hyperion.

for whom?

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3. Extend an olive branch to the various Amiga factions.

impossible to think of for most os4 users/wouldnt be taken any more.

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Matt Dillon

whom??

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Making a solution walk and talk like a duck will be far easier than continuing on the current trajectory or starting from scratch.

the have walk like a duck for a while only backwards, none talks about starting again from a scratch though.

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It won't be easy and many will gasp in horror but it's time to create an inventory of the Amiga-specific technologies of importance and focus on them.

care to name any?

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The one element that always seems to be missing or is misappropriated is the spirit.

another gospel we had too much of.

@ne_one

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So you're basically claiming that time has created this situation rather than those in charge of the ecosystem?

yes. time and circumstances. we can play the lost game to see the outcome, but whom claims it can be won by mistake of the opponents is misleading those that keep to cheer him.

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The Amiga hardware is irrelevant and has already been replaced by mainstream components that don't even resemble the original 30 year old technology.

so has been the os. do you have an example to the contrary?

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As for the standard "if it's based on Linux it won't be an Amiga" argument, it's pretty clear that at least one extremely successful industry player was able to transition to a Unix-based environment and no one ever blinks twice.

have you been left unaware that people have played apple joker here for years without any effect? any conclusion?

Last edited by wawa on 21-Feb-2015 at 09:29 PM.

lol i love it when geeks get hit, well there is one good thing you can always turn them into fishtanks like the old apples , although apple is still ripe whilst yours has become perished over night lol.
dissapointed at the moment though havnt seen any on ebay yet maybe your all thinking she might rise from the ashes.

@amigakit

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Some of these are software for the OS rather than applications.

Warp3D?

@pavlor

sure as mantra goes.

@wawa

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sure as mantra goes.

Always pleasure to read your responses.

@klx300r

read the latest announcement from A-eon sounds like they are preparing "other OS" then AOS 4.x

@_Steve_

Can we have a like button at the bottom of posts?.
so much easier than replying to posts.

Thanks

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@imigger

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how do you snobs feel waisting all that money lol lol i laugh in your face.

Last edited by sundown on 22-Feb-2015 at 12:04 AM.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@tangoone

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read the latest announcement from A-eon sounds like they are preparing "other OS" then AOS 4.x

really? what in any of A-EON's recent press releases have given you that indication?

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@wawa

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while what it actually means, is that the freelance contributors are still working on their "stuff". which is what apparently kept os4 updates coming up till now anyway, so no big deal here. it will probably continue for some time after os distribution itself has ceased.

nope. try again.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@ne_one

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4. Collaborate with Matt Dillon.

An Intuition port (code from AROS) running on Dragonfly might be interesting.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

Even if Hyperion will not go bankrupt, I don't see any destiny for OS4.

They got the 3.1 sources, and adapted for PowerPC, not even completing the port (some parts are still 68K, and run through the provided emulation). They cannot think about porting to other architectures (ARM or x86/x64), because they use some third-party code which is licensed only for PowerPC, and the ExecSG seems to be owned by the twins (which is well known that they don't like x86/x64; don't know about ARMs, tough).

Since PowerPC is a dead platform, there's no future here: if the o.s. survives, it will run on high cost and under-powered hardware. A nano-niche in the niche of alternative platforms.

That's not the only bad thing, however. In about 14 years they have continuously patched the original o.s., with no plan to rewriting it in order to introduce modern features (memory protection, address space separation, multiuser), even only to fully support 64-bits. That's because they know that doing that, backward compatibility will be lost for sure (and because of the above constrains: third-parties). So, they introduced an horrible bank switching technique which was used on the old 8 bits home computer, to take SOME advantage of the >2GB memory.
They also completely distorted the o.s., introducing the so called "interfaces" for the libraries: about 20 years of "a single interface to rule them all" was trashed for who knows what "good" reason, making also more difficult for developers to support both the original o.s. and the other post-Amiga o.s.. They introduced shared objects, but without the advantages which they have on other platforms, only to make it simple to do applications porting, and substantially killing our beloved libraries model (who puts effort on creating a regular library, when using a shared object requires no such pain?). Last but not least, instead of putting all the effort on Gallium, they continue to waste time and resources with other graphic drivers development and Warp3D.

Do you expect that such patchwork will have a future? Nope.

The only way is to put the old stuff into a sandbox using UAE, and plan for a really modern o.s. which is Amiga-inspired for the APIs. But looking at the last 14 years, it's something which will never happen: patching the old code a bit here and a bit there requires little effort, and is enough to get the money from the post-Amiga community...

@cdimauro

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some parts are still 68K, and run through the provided emulation

ARexx, old GFX card drivers (Cirrus Logic) and probably some other small parts. Most (99 %) of the OS is PowerPC native.

As PowerPC is now emulated in WinUAE, you can try OS4 yourself - with known limitations. I was regular AmigaOS 3.x and AROS user until I purchased OS4.1 Classic in September last year, now I spend far more Amiga time in OS4.

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: some parts are still 68K, and run through the provided emulation ARexx, old GFX card drivers (Cirrus Logic) and probably some other small parts. Most (99 %) of the OS is PowerPC native.

But they are important, and not trivial to replace. That's why in 14 years they were left untouched.

That's a very bad thing if you think about porting the o.s. on other architectures (or even bring the o.s. to the 64-bit PowerPC ISA), because it means that you have to spend a lot of time rewriting them.
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As PowerPC is now emulated in WinUAE, you can try OS4 yourself - with known limitations. I was regular AmigaOS 3.x and AROS user until I purchased OS4.1 Classic in September last year, now I spend far more Amiga time in OS4.

I know very well, and I already read all your posts regarding it.

Honestly I'm not interested because I spend my (little) time with AROS (and currently I'm experimenting an idea).

Regarding OS4, unfortunately it doesn't support WinUAE, primarily because of the limited available memory. I don't know why OS4 developers haven't already provided at least a little patch to remove such limit: it's very easy for them, instead of requiring some reverse engineering for other guys which clearly takes much more time. It doesn't make sense, since peoples bought OS4, and specially the FE which is cheaper, just for using it on WinUAE: their money are the same of all the other OS4 users.

I think that a PC with WinUAE can be a good way for extending the user-base (and get some money, which otherwise were lost because many don't want to spend A LOT for underpowered PowerPC machines), but not in this status, especially if you see that you can use up to 1.8GB of memory with the regular 3.1 (or 3.0) Amiga version on WinUAE...

@cdimauro

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But they are important, and not trivial to replace.

I don´t think Cirrus Logic drivers are important outside WinUAE/OS4 community - most CybersormPPC owners already have Permedia2 or newer cards. ARexx - there are some licence constraints.

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Regarding OS4, unfortunately it doesn't support WinUAE, primarily because of the limited available memory. I don't know why OS4 developers haven't already provided at least a little patch to remove such limit: it's very easy for them

I think their current effort is to solve bugs/issues introduced in FE. As you wrote, such patch would be trivial.

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but not in this status

Current OS4 in WinUAE is some sort of demo version - if you like it, you may consider buying real hardware (old or new) - well, not with my income.

@pavlorQuote:

most CybersormPPC owners already have Permedia2 or newer cards

hmm nope. Combination of CyberstormPPC and CV643D was very common too.

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Current OS4 in WinUAE is some sort of demo version - if you like it, you may consider buying real hardware (old or new)

I think it is time to take off rose-coloured glasses Purpose of demo version is to convince customer to buy something, but combination of WinUAE and limited, officialy unsupported and quite buggy OS41FE doesn't work that way for sure.
Buying old hardware is pretty risky coz all pre Sam boards pretty much suxx with one exception Pegasos II (but that one is quite rare) and you never know when the board will commit suicide. New PPC hardware is overpriced.

@ExiE

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hmm nope. Combination of CyberstormPPC and CV643D was very common too.

Source for such claim?

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I think it is time to take off rose-coloured glasses

You know, I´m used to wear my rose-coloured glasses everyday.

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but combination of WinUAE and limited, officialy unsupported and quite buggy OS41FE doesn't work that way for sure.

It worked for me...
About bugs - most annoying for me is broken Czech Locale, but that one will be solved soon. Other bugs I saw mentioned on Hyperion´s forum aren´t visible on my configuration.

@pavlor

Many did not buy the Cybervision gfx card, its really good but its missing any scandoubler/monitor switcher .. Alot with cybervisions and picasso cards had this pleasure allready ...