@KingKong

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1. The world needs a super secure and high reliable RTOS, an ideal operating system, simply the best.

There are certainly uses for such an OS but there are already OSs that serve that need.

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2. I think, that AmigaOS has a chance but must therefore become open source ... use in military/industry (it should be unthinkable to use MS there) and that the OS can't be sabotaged/busted. 3. Why could an Amiga Fan be against this idea? ...

First to answer point 3.
a) No one (there might be a few contrarians) is actually against the idea of AmigaOS 4.x being open source. Though predominantly everyone is aware of just how much of a challenge it would be.

b) I would say mostly people are disagreeing with both points in the same response. And its hard to blame them because you have combined the commercial viability of AmigaOS 4.x to it being open source.

When Linux popped up on the OS scene no commercial or government entity would go near it. It took like 10 years before it started getting enterprise support and a noticeable shift in migrations from midrange and Windows systems.

The first thing that happens when you open source is massive fragmentation and thousands of different ideas are tested out. After several years the good ideas get separated from the bad ideas and solutions using the good ideas emerge. Then after a couple of more years these solutions are mature enough that they can stand up to the kind of scrutiny that's applied by large enterprises and governmental departments. The same departments that use Windows because there is a company they can have a secure and legally binding contract with, among other things.

With open source systems there are no guarantees. You are at the mercy of the development and user base. It's very organic. So it is very hard to see how opening up AmigaOS 4.x would lead to all these improvements you hope for.

If you want to see AmigaOS 4.x with modern features, and used by the military, then the best and quickest way to get there is by keeping the source under complete control of this mission.

This of course is currently not anyone's mission.

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5. If not AmigaOS, then some other OS must be developed - fine by me - I want a perfect OS and this must not be named "AmigaOS". But if it's not AmigaOS, then AmigaOS will soon be history - do you want this? ... What do A-EON, Cloanto, Hyperion Entertainment and Amiga, Inc. think about this? Are they content to tinker/mess about or do they want AmigaOS to become much more?

What's in a name? Does it really matter what it is called if it does what you want in a way that you like?

In many ways AmigaOS is already no longer Amiga OS. See Theseus' Paradox

And it's not about being content. The things you talk about would cost large sums of money. We are talking millions. What these companies are doing is using much smaller sums of money to get smaller projects going. I don't agree with it but that is what they want. For them, something is better than nothing.

Also, Hyperion are incapable of thinking; Their manager is a lawyer.

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@hotrod

I know what memory protection is.
What I'm saying is how would an average user notice that specifically the feature of memory protection was missing?

As I said, just yesterday my Mac crashed and everything was frozen. And it's a Mac Pro with ECC Registered DRAM. I had to hold the power button to force a shutdown. Am I to conclude that memory protection is missing from OS X 10.10.1?

Not having memory protection may make a system mores unstable if programming guidelines aren't strictly followed. But if everyone is aware of it and everyone follows the rules, then the UX is preserved.

Amiga OS would not suffer from having memory protection, multithreading and multi-core support. Just like it would not be a disadvantage to have a modern hypervisor, and OpenCL support. But the lack of these things aren't necessarily show-stoppers. History has many examples of shortcomings spun into benefits. You just skin the proverbial cat in one of the other ways.

Last edited by agami on 23-Feb-2015 at 11:27 PM.
Last edited by agami on 23-Feb-2015 at 04:36 AM.
Last edited by agami on 23-Feb-2015 at 04:35 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

@agami
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agami wrote: There are certainly uses for such an OS but there are already OSs that serve that need.

Well, for instance there's no really secure bottom up checksum-security (including chip-microcode) to verify that there's no trojaner/spyprogram or the system is otherwise bugged. This is an important security feature, which will likely be standard in the future and Amiga could begin with that.

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a) No one (there might be a few contrarians) is actually against the idea of AmigaOS 4.x being open source.

Seems to me that some if not most useres of AROS and MorphOS or against my ideas - perhaps they fear that AmigaOS could become to successful and thus eliminate AROS and MorphOS. Well, could be but then it's a proof for my idea to likely be successful, isn't it?

Obviously hardware sellers should like my idea - just think of millions and billions sold items in the future and that the licence fees could be troublesome for makers of cheaper hardware or to say it otherwise: the hardware would sell better and with more profit with open source. Big money is no guarantee for quality, see Microsoft.

And even for goodwilling current possessors of AmigaOS my idea of AmigaOS becoming open source could be an option - at least if we find some money to support this step.

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Though predominantly everyone is aware of just how much of a challenge it would be.

Well, it's mainly the question of the rights and the situation may be not hopeless. It would be nice, if someone could clear this up but perhaps just all wait, because they don't like to give up their possessions. What could be concluded of Hyperion being silent? They could be in trouble. This may be a chance, because it's only a question of money - if Hyperion would be very rich and successful, they probably won't release AmigaOS to open source.

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The first thing that happens when you open source is massive fragmentation and thousands of different ideas are tested out.

So what? Linux copes. It is very important that there is a main developer company with professionell programmers and we kind of have that with Hyperion Entertainment - they just need some money but there's plenty of money ... the only problem is, to route it to the development of AmigaOS but for starters we perhaps need only some millions and there are millions of millions bucks (Dollars) out there in the world. Interesting times - it could simply be possible.

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After several years the good ideas get separated from the bad ideas and solutions using the good ideas emerge. Then after a couple of more years these solutions are mature enough that they can stand up to the kind of scrutiny that's applied by large enterprises and governmental departments.

Yes and this means one thing: open source will inevitable win. What are a view years in the view of billion years to come?

According to my wishes the EU will support/pay for open source development with yearly at least a billion (10^9) Euro (that's no guarantee but it's well possible - look at all the money whole Europe pays to Microsoft and that Microsoft should not really be an option for industry, military, governmental institutions).

But what chance has AmigaOS without becoming open source?

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See Theseus' Paradox

That's just philosophy bullshit - just look what really is and what should be.

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The things you talk about would cost large sums of money.

So what? I would like to know, how much money Hyperion Entertainment yearly needs to go on in some kind of survival mode? Not much I think, if AmigaOS is open source.

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Also, Hyperion are incapable of thinking; Their manager is a lawyer.

Fine, there surely exist some good lawyers (in spite of some jokes, hahaha).

Mostly they need some believe and goodwill, I think.

@KingKong

you can't be a real person. At least not one who's out of primary school.

I am 48 years old, male, unemployed since 2009-01-01 and have graduated as computer scientist ("Informatik Diplom" at a german university). I'm writing also as
HeWhoEnjoysGravity,
HeWhosePathIsChosen,
MrStoneStupid,
michibikimono.

@phoenixkonsole

Beleiving is reserved for the church.

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You also mix up "Maintainer of a distribution" with "AROS developer".

No I don't, but that doesnt matter as long as the various realeases are still out there.

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Would someone please kill this ridiculous thread. It has been one of the most ridiculous wastes of electrons to date. Nothing is going to make AmigaOS into a leading operating system. Please stop feeding the troll who started this stupid thread.

@KingKong

Ever thought as to why you are unemployed for so long?

ace

@acefnq

+1

@KingKong

"Seems to me that some if not most useres of AROS and MorphOS or against my ideas - perhaps they fear that AmigaOS could become to successful and thus eliminate AROS and MorphOS. Well, could be but then it's a proof for my idea to likely be successful, isn't it?"

I can only answer: LOL

And you seem not to understand or simply you do not want to understand: Hyperion cannot opensource AmigaOS because it does not own it. They have the right to use the sources of 3.1. but they do not own it. And for many newer parts they also have only the right to use them but they do not own it. And ownership would be necessary if you want to opensource something otherwise you violate laws. Is that so difficult to understand?

@KingKong

we are not against open sourcing amiga os or os4 for that matter. it doesnt depend on us. we just accepted it and moved along.

Last edited by wawa on 23-Feb-2015 at 10:12 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 23-Feb-2015 at 10:12 AM.

@Yssing

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No I don't, but that doesnt matter as long as the various realeases are still out there.

it does matter if you are mixing up stuff in your argumentation. see my answer.

@OlafS25

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They have the right to use the sources of 3.1. but they do not own it.

Well that is not the case, they did have a buy back agreement, Amiga Inc did not buy it back, so they own it, but they do not own all parts of AmigaOS4.1 some parts like the TCP/IP stack and ExecSG are owned by contractors, there might be other parts as well. RadeonHD driver is contract work for A-EON.

If the contract between Amiga Inc and Hyperion is not fully broken, they have restriction on what type of hardware they can support.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2015 at 10:33 AM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

I understood the agreement between them and AmigaInc. that they got the exclusive right to use the 3.1. sources but not the ownership but I am no attorney so I do not know.

@wawa

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it does matter if you are mixing up stuff in your argumentation. see my answer.

No actually it does not matter who creates the different aros forks.
Aros lacks unity and goal, that is not a fault with aros but can easily be a general problem with open source.

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@Yssing

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Aros lacks unity and goal, that is not a fault with aros but can easily be a general problem with open source.

Closed source projects can lack unity and goal, too.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Yssing
Wrong, the unity is given by sharing code.
And aros has a defined goal:
Being source code compatible to os3.1

And you are still free to take it and form it as you like in a dictatorship os.

Aros is leading. Hyperion failed.
So who was right?

I for my own am working on Broadway (32bit), Broadway 64 (bit), aeros x86/arm and aminux.
So for my taste this is unified. And they will come closer during the year
Isn't this unified?

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@Yssing

I think you do not understand how Aros works. "Under the hood" all use the same base (API), f.e. all X86 distributions have the same base. Then there are ARM (that is now growing) and 68k. On one hardware base software can be easily exchanged between the distributions. The most obvious difference is the desktop, Magellan on Icaros Desktop and in my distribution, Wanderer on Aeros and AspireOS. That is comparable to the Linux-World with KDE and Gnome.

Goal? Official Goal is to reimplement 3.1. API and from Maintainers to get the best from the existing software. What is the "goal" of AmigaOS BTW?

@Thread

Since this thread is still going and I have no interest in writing about open source or x86-64 or how the cost/performance ratio of the X1000 isn't as good as the Pegasos board etc I'll try and answer the question in the manner in which the question deserves; THE ONLY WAY AMIGAOS WILL BE A 'LEADING' OS IS VIA TIME TRAVEL!!!

Having re-watched Back to the Future Part 2 recently, I think Doc Brown says it best:

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Doc Brown: Obviously the time continuum has been disrupted, creating a new temporal event sequence resulting in this alternate reality. Marty: English, Doc! Doc Brown: Here. Here, let me demonstrate. Let's say that this line represents time. [draws straight line and points to places] Here's the present 1985, the future and the past. Obviously, somewhere in the past the timeline skewed down into this tangent [draws new line and writes 1985A] creating an alternate 1985. Alternate to you, me, and Einstein, but reality for everyone else. Recognize this? [shows Blast from the Past bag] It’s the bag the sports book came in; I know because the receipt was still inside. I found them in the time machine...along with this! Marty: That's the top to Biff's cane. I mean, old Biff, from the future. Doc Brown: Correct. They were in the time machine because Biff was in the time machine...with the sports almanac! Marty: Holy shit. Doc Brown: You see, while we were in the future, Biff got the sports book, stole the time machine, went back in time and gave the book to himself somewhere in the past. Look, it says right here that Biff made his first million betting on a horse race in 1958. He wasn't just lucky, he knew, because he had all the race results in the sports almanac! That's how he made his entire fortune!! Take a look at this with a magnifying glass. Marty: [sees book in Biff's coat] The almanac! Son of a bitch stole my idea! He must've been listening when I...It's all my fault. The whole thing is my fault! If I hadn't bought that damn book then none of this would've happened! Doc Brown: Well, it's all in the past. Marty: You mean the future. Doc Brown: Whatever! It demonstrates PRECISELY how time travel can be misused and why the time machine must be destroyed...after we straighten all this out. Marty: So we go back to the future, and we stop Biff from stealing the time machine. Doc Brown: We can't, because if we travel into the future from this point in time, it will be the future of THIS reality, in which Biff is corrupt, powerful, and married to your mother, and in which THIS has happened to ME!! [holds up newspaper reading "EMMETT BROWN COMMITTED"] No, our only chance to repair the present is in the past, at the point where the time line skewed into this tangent. In order to put the universe back as we remember it and get back to our reality, we have to find out the exact date and specific circumstances of how, when, and where young Biff got his hands on that sports almanac. Marty: I'll ask him.

Now substitute the Sports Almanac for the Amiga and Biff for Commodore and you have a glimpse of the way in which history went wrong. If some other half clued up company had had access to the Lorraine boards and Amiga technology they'd have made the Amiga a long term success. But you have to wonder if it would have saved us all the heart ache if just like the Sports Almanac the Amiga blue prints and custom chip designs had just been put in a bucket, dosed in whiskey and set fire to! That would certainly have been a better way forward for this thread!

There you go! Now that the question has been definitively answered we can close the thread and patiently wait to see if Hyperion are able to keep trading or if we'll enter another period of legal wranglings over AmigaOS and whether it has 'ANY' future never mind a future as a 'LEADING OS'!!!

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@OlafS25

Well the whole court case was about that. What Amiga had payed or not to buy it back, what Hyperion where able to sell or not, and if Amiga Inc had the right to buy it back as they went bankrupt a few times (shell company), In the end it ended in settlement agreement and Amiga Inc where unable to buy it back. However, that does not mean that Hyperion won all rights.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 23-Feb-2015 at 03:11 PM.

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