@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote: @Rob: you're right. It was more 1996. For example this is what you would get in 1996: - external scandoubler for A1200: 1470FF - A1200 magic pack: 3190FF See: http://download.abandonware.org/magazines/Amiga%20News/amiganews_numero92/Amiga%20News%20092%20-%20Page%20036%20%281996-07%29.jpg So that's almost half the price of the A1200... And I guess you easily reach the price of the Falcon if you add both prices.. Today scandoubler like indivision are still being sold for something like 120-150€.. Again, not what I call cheap, and near the price of an a1200 alone.

Rob is right that it cost £72 or less for an external scan doubler. If it had cost more I had not bought two because a scan doubler is strictly not necessary.

The options on the Amiga 1200 were to run either dual monitor (one for 15khz and one for 31khz), or use a multisync monitor, or ignore either the VGA modes or the TV screenmodes, or use a scan doubler.

The BVision card has not AGA pass trough so I have to use both RGB and VGA output BTW.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@Leo

Quote:

Leo wrote: Quote: An 800x600x8bit desktop, which was very common, required 480KB, saturating the very low-end SVGA with 512KB, and that's just for the screen: then you had to handle windows and images. That wasn't a problem: only the amiga needed memory for images/windows.. On PC/windows you only needed enough memory for the screen/depth and could open windows/images without worrying.. I guess it was because graphic cards basically served as a framebuffer. On the Amiga, opening a few windows/screens and bam, you ran out of graphics memory...

You can set in WB that unshown graphics are located in fast RAM.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Jupp3 Oh not Vulcan Software! They positioned themselves as some sort of second dawn of commercial game development after C= died but they were very second rate IMHO. Jet Pilot was awful and Tiny Troopers was ridiculous. Thank goodness for Clickboom! as they were able to keep production values high all the way to the year 2000!

But then again, they DID produce some good games, such as Genetic Species, Final Odyssey, and last but not least, Strangers!

I definitely consider Burnout one of the "lesser" games, just mentioned it as it otherwise fits the topic.

Freeware game Knockout 2 is way better (but worse looking). Plays better, more game modes, and last but not least, doesn't have stupid "max. 4 players" restriction

Quote:

P.S. Napalm supported AGA high res and worked great on a 060.

...but that requires considerably faster CPU for it, both mentioned games work on less. Also, with Napalm it doesn't matter if the framerate is lower (it's actually easier)

Last edited by Jupp3 on 28-Jun-2015 at 06:14 PM.
Last edited by Jupp3 on 28-Jun-2015 at 06:13 PM.

@Jupp3

Quote:

Jupp3 wrote: @cdimauro Quote: I never had the chance to see this game, but if it really supports the hires, well, I want to take a deeper look. I hope to find it on Back2Roots or something like that. It's definitely available at "something like that"

If it's legal lite B2R, it's OK. Otherwise, I prefer to give-up.
Quote:

Would be nice if it was possible to play in super hires with full track visible & squashed graphics - and play on widescreen display

Super-hires and 256 colors means that processor, Copper, and Blitter had absolutely no available slots to access the (chip) memory when the display logic worked, but only the horizontal retrace (a few slots) and the vertical retrace (around 56 complete raster lines). In other words, it's not possible to move that amount of graphic, because there was very little time to process all the was needed.
Quote:

If you're interested, Burnout also runs in hires.

Never heard of it for Amiga. Thanks for the info!

@Ertilyllibllih

Quote:

The BVision card has not AGA pass trough so I have to use both RGB and VGA output BTW.

Eyetech made the BMON which took care of that. It appears that AmigaKit still have stock and I think it's cheaper than it was when I got mine.
I doubt it was difficult to get an external VGA switcher for less but what I liked about BMON was that you could hide everthing inside the case and if you had Eyetech EZ-KEY XS you could even use a keyboard combination to switch between AGA and the video card.

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote: @Ertilyllibllih Quote: The BVision card has not AGA pass trough so I have to use both RGB and VGA output BTW. Eyetech made the BMON which took care of that. It appears that AmigaKit still have stock and I think it's cheaper than it was when I got mine. I doubt it was difficult to get an external VGA switcher for less but what I liked about BMON was that you could hide everthing inside the case and if you had Eyetech EZ-KEY XS you could even use a keyboard combination to switch between AGA and the video card.

It says it requires a towers/Big box.

I had the Amiga 1200 in a big box for a short while because I planned to get a PCI bridge board but everything Amiga related looked like a mess back then so I put everything back in the original Amiga case. I really don't regret it and use my old external SCSI box for the drives.

I will not buy anything Amiga related until I get a FPGA machine or similar 100% compatible and performs like the Amiga 1200 or better and 68k that matches the speed of my 68060 or better. RTG had been nice too but the PPC is not important... Like a better clone of the one I already have. Meanwhile is WinUAE and my Amiga 500 and 1200 doing a great job.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@thread
About modern features & multicore support.
starting from p.92:
Running AMP, SMP or BMP Mode for Multicore Embedded Systems /QNX Software Systems
http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/brochure/PWRARBYNDBITS.pdf

"BMP, an approach pioneered by
QNX Software Systems, offers the
benefits of SMP’s transparent resource
management, but gives designers the
ability to lock any application (and all
of its threads) to a specific core to
help migrate uniprocessor code to a
multicore environment."

I would like to use BMP on next gen AmigaLikeOS and control what apps use what core, little bit what executive allowed me to do with task priorities etc..

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK: modern o.ses usually allow to control in which core execute some tasks, using the so called "thread affinity": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affinity_mask

@cdimauro

Interesting. Should be useful. (if I need to set it only once)

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/windows-and-office/change-the-processor-affinity-setting-in-windows-7-to-gain-a-performance-edge/

https://www.google.fi/search?q=how+to+set+affinity+linux&gws_rd=cr,ssl&ei=dq-RVb6SO4e8swG4gLLIBQ

Last edited by KimmoK on 29-Jun-2015 at 09:50 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK: unless for specific cases (where a gain is proven), it's better to leave this task to the scheduler.

@cdimauro

At work I try it with third party drivers for some test tools, to see if it improves their stability.

On Linux I want to experiment if the responsiveness becomes better/worse with affinity tweaking.
(for example on my 2Ghz AMD64x2 system, there nowdays seems to be some 70% load on both cores when it should be idle, I want to see what happens if the CPU hog is only on one core)


(Being able to set application priorities and nice values in one place and only once for all applications was one of the "killer features" of my AOS3.x setup (via Executive). NG should extend that to core affinity settings.
Similarly, being able to finetune virtual memory usage per application was cool (IIRC, I used gigamem). Would like to see also that on NG.)

Last edited by KimmoK on 30-Jun-2015 at 07:47 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

A modern Amiga-inspired system (NOT a development of the existing Amiga OS*) could do worse than using QNX as a base. Ideally there should be an open source QNX "clone" to build on however that doesn't exist (yet?).

(* as it is sadly technologically a dead-end, but it still have a lot modern systems could learn from)

@KingKong

Quote:

KingKong wrote: ... Amiga OS can become the leading smartphone OS ...

I don't have a smart phone and don't want one.
So you say AOS isn't for me any longer?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@serk118

Quote:

serk118 wrote: @Metalheart ... Quote: Everything else will come when more users arive and cash gets flowing in the right direction. pC user wont buy ppc hw

I highly doubt the majority knows the difference between PC and PPC at all...they think it's just a typo...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dirk-B

Quote:

Dirk-B wrote: Look back in history... We where young when we had a game-computer... Ok, now this may sound stupid but why not make a dev-computer for the young of today. They could experiment ... Infact we would need experiment-suites like we had mecano, lego and electronic-boards back in the time. A computer to experiment with, very sheep. Something you should buy in a toy-store for very young nerd's.

Hmmm - I thought the A1X1k is such a computer to experiment with.
Just that the possibilities XENA offers seems to be more interesting for experienced robotics developers with lots of time and money than for kiddies...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@hotrod

Quote:

hotrod wrote: @KingKong I haven't read the answers but the way that I look at it AOS absolutely must have support for more RAM (64-bit), support for multiple cores, memory-protection and OpenGL. Also better support for printers/scanners are very much needed.

Reading this brings up an idea in me.
The capabilities of XENA in the AmigaOne X1000 could possibly be used to support 3d-printing, as well as 3d-scanning.

It should also be predestinated to build flexible production systems. But for this an updated version of DynaCadd would be required, as well as suppport for all types of CNC machines and industrial robots.

Back in 1989 I could use my A 500 to design in 3d with DynaCadd and to convert the 3d data into executable CNC programs, which really run on industrial CNC machines.

If the AmigaOne X1000 could be used to control such a production system, it could mean smaller costs for small production companies to set up such numerically controlled production environments and so be a market for the Amiga.

Quote:

hotrod wrote: When that is done it'll be ready for use by single users for more up-to-date games and developers can port/make more games, develop software more easily and it'll be a lot better for users as well. ...

Hmm - I'm not a gaming kid and so cannot say much on this topic.
Just that more or more up-to-date games would certainly not help me as a (serious) computer user...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

stress test program for AmigaOS wanted

I have not yet an Amiga but thinking a little ahead, I would like to have a pretty capable stress test program:

- preferable open source

- for AmigaOS 4 and if possible Linux

- very configurable and also with some easy standard modes

- testmodes: single/loop, selected/loop, all/loop, intelligent, maximum chaos/stress

- test of CPU, RAM, GPU, grafic RAM, Co-processor, USB, LAN, Xorro, Compact Flash, SATA, PATA, RS-232, JTAG, PCIe, PCI, Audio, display, ...

Do you have additional suggestions?

The main idea is to check, if the system is stable, even under difficult circumstances. Therefore the programm must have a chaos/stress mode in which (configurable) as much as possible is done. For instance many threads copy data like hell's open between different devices while using as much DMA, CPU, RAM, USB, SATA, LAN, PCI as possible ... of course (hopefully) without busting anything terminally.

It is desirable that this programm runs under Linux also. Why? Well, so one can test non-Amiga-systems also. The aim is, that Amiga performs well whereas some other systems crash. The aim is to have (sometime) the best stress test program - first for PC but (sometime) for smartphomes, embedded systems and even supercomputers also.

An aspect/motivation: Row hammer - the stress test program must be able to hammer (flip) a bit out of order and(!) detect this event, if this is somehow possible ... and don't forget the CPU cache.

Don't tell me, you havn't anything like this ... because how could you than have tested the hardware well? It's not enough to try very carefully the usual/normal things ... at least, if one want the best (or at least 100% accurat) hardware and to make Amiga OS a leading operating system.

That's in total pretty much but one could start easy and step-by-step. One first step could be a frame application, which could call/start different test modules and display results. One first test program could be a RAM test.

Maybe this link could help: Performance test tools

Well? That's something to think of, isn't it?

PS: AmigaOS should become a modular RTOS for as much devices as possible.

(all imho) - meaning, that this posting is (now) my opinion.

@michalsc

Quote:

michalsc wrote: @KingKong ... 32bit Amiga will not impress anyone in todays world. What advantages would it have when compared to typical desktops or game consoles? Very secure? Come on, AmigaOS is highly insecure by design. Reliable? Any app can crash whole system easily. ... Kind of stupid argument, since AmigaOS is not RTOS.

Hmmm - at least 32bit Amigas impressed the NASA-engineers enough to use them:
Amiga at NASA:

Quote:

Bob Castro (Obligement) wrote: ... Since after all, this IS rocket science, NASA must downlink a tremendous amount of data from each spacecraft; during ground tests, through the countdown and lift-off and out into space. There is no room for error in the acquisition and processing of this data. It must be accurately calculated and reliably sent from the hanger to distant space centers around the world participating in the mission. All in real time and without interruption. ... The spacecrafts supported by the Amigas include all of the Atlas-Centaurs, Delta II and Delta III, the Orbital Sciences Pegasus, Lockheed-Martin Athena and a couple different models of the Titan. GOES and GPS spacecraft data are processed, and some user data off the space shuttle.

It seeems 32 Bit Amigas are more secure and reliable than you think. And if not really RTOS, then AmigaOS is at least close to RTOS. Close enough for the NASA and their tasks:

Quote:

Bob Castro (Obligement) wrote: Gary Jones, principal systems engineer for NASA's software systems at Cape Canaveral told us the Amigas take in all the telemetry data from the spacecraft, scale it by applying coefficients of up to fifth order polynomials and convert the data back to engineering units for display to the engineers working the launch.

NASA's principal systems engineer about the Amiga:

Quote:

Gary Jones (principal systems engineer for NASA's software systems at Cape Canaveral) wrote: "It just turned out that it was a good machine. The things that make a machine good for playing games also tend to make it good for processing and displaying data, because you've got some of the same problems. You need a very efficient, very fast operating system, and the Amiga has that and very little overhead too. That's what makes it nice; we don't load down the system running the overhead; we can just process the data."

Quote:

michalsc wrote: Cheap? There are no cheap Amiga computers right now.

Hmmm, the NASA systems engineer seems to differ here (back in 1999):

Quote:

Gary Jones wrote: "If its not a PC, NASA gives us a lot of grief when we try to buy anything to go with the Amigas. They want us to buy PCs and run Windows 95 and NT. We keep trying to tell them its not fast enough so they tell us to buy DEC Alphas. We tell them its too expensive. They don't like the Amiga; it doesn't cost enough."

Regarding user-friendliness:

Quote:

michalsc wrote: AmigaOS is not as user-friendly as you think.

Apparently it was user-friendly enough for the NASA users:

Quote:

Gary Jones wrote: Because of the way the Amiga is laid out and because the software is all tied together, each machine can actually support more than one spacecraft at a time, if the bit rate isn't too high. A multi-tasking, multi-spacecraft personal computer!

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote: @hotrod ... Because most people, like 95% of smartphone, tablet, and PC users don't even know what memory protection is.

Sorry, but I couldn't resist:
Isn't memory protection the tiny switch on the side of SD memory cards?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@fishy_fis

Quote:

fishy_fis wrote: @Severin ... Boot speed? Sadly these days a typical Windows system will boot much quicker than amiga os. ...

Hmmmm - boot time of my Amiga 4000 with CyberstormPPC (OS 3.9 boting on the 68060@50 mHz): 50 seconds after a cold start. ~50 seconds after pressing the "Power On" button OS 3.9 is fully booted and MiamiDX established the DSL connection and the internal clock is updated from the web.
My PC (P4@1.8 gHz) with WinXP pro takes up to 10 minutes, until the OS is completely booted and DSL connection is established.

I heard on newer WIntel System boot time has improved - but this is the situation I have with my current systems.
I don't know how long it takes e.g. an A1X1k to boot OS 4.1FE...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)