@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @kolla It certainly does. I might have 4 different applications that can open files ending in ".sch" on any given computer _because people aren't very creative when they select file endings for their software_ and this means that VIRTUALLY every time I need to right-click and select from a list. Yet, if it's one type of file I always want it in app a, another file I want it always in app b etc. So the Amiga way would be wastly superior to me. Not to mention files ending in .c or .doc. Short story long, I would like the icons of AmigaOS on my Linux box NOW, please. It finally got drag'n'drop from file browsers to command shells, so all in all it's on the right track

So why not instead use something that works?
1) use "magic numbers", the traditional Unix way to handle file identification.
2) use metadata like in OS X and BeOS/Haiku OS.
3) use a combination of the above with metadata used if available otherwise using "magic numbers".

@olegil

Of course it can as it is originally defined. But ask any English teacher or read any dictionary and be enlightened.

I wouldn't normally complain but when Mr. B***** used it the impulse to inform that it goes against normal usage standards became too great. Mea culpa.

Last edited by _Steve_ on 23-May-2015 at 03:33 PM.

@megol

AmigaOS uses metadata. Metadata requires a filesystem with overhead for it (MAC approach), OR a file based approach (AmigaOS).

Duh.

Also, magic numbers don't work at all for "zipped xml" based formats, of which I use quite a few. Opening in archive manager didn't help much when it was an xlsx.

The fact that libreoffice doesn't handle xlsx files when they have the ending xls is also a bit silly.

It's the small things that grind me down.

Last edited by olegil on 22-May-2015 at 10:22 AM.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@megol

He could as well have written "and friends", it would have made exactly the same sense in Common, but it would obviously not have been proper High Tongue like you seem to be using. I don't like your namecalling, either.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

"How to make AmigaOS a leading operating system?"

A: buy AmigaOS and MicroSoft, rename AmigaOS to Windows11. (and delete the windows codebase)
B: spend the needed money of option A to bribe Amiga Community with Morph & AROS & AOS teams to build AOS5.0 release that unifies all branches, after that the world will follow.
C: there really is no other option beside A or B if general purpose dekstop lead position is wanted (A is the 100% surely working option, B is a joke, even if the best for amigans)

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 10:20 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 22-May-2015 at 10:19 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @megol AmigaOS uses metadata. Metadata requires a filesystem with overhead for it (MAC approach), OR a file based approach (AmigaOS).

Amiga OS uses either magic numbers or .info files. But this isn't integrated well into the OS.

Quote:

Duh.

?

Quote:

Also, magic numbers don't work at all for "zipped xml" based formats, of which I use quite a few. Opening in archive manager didn't help much when it was an xlsx. The fact that libreoffice doesn't handle xlsx files when they have the ending xls is also a bit silly. It's the small things that grind me down.

So then the metadata approach would make more sense.

Quote:

olegil wrote: @megol He could as well have written "and friends", it would have made exactly the same sense in Common, but it would obviously not have been proper High Tongue like you seem to be using. I don't like your namecalling, either.

So the fact that he likes to write "High Tongue" but can't be arsed to do it properly can't be pointed out? The fact that he doesn't know shit about user interface design and underlying human cognitive processes but can very well drop obscure TLAs (which doesn't even apply in the context) can't be noted and criticized?

As for the namecalling, have your tried reading his posts? As someone with interest in operating systems, user interfaces and hardware it is obvious that he simply don't know anything of worth in those areas.

And if someone writes pure bullshit - he is a bullshitter.

Last edited by megol on 22-May-2015 at 11:37 AM.

@megol

I have some ideas:

-respect for all including PCs and other ones Mac for example that provide us their MAC Mini
-friendliness for being part of this holy community,YES Holy community one
-To express Hyperion our hope on the that we are still the best and then on order ask them if they can make
a full killer set of Amiga posters to put on our cities and if we can sell for example 10*20 Amigas on our cities so we can do for more than satisfaction,we must have to make feel the heart of the people again.

-The poster advertisement must be as usual Amiga pure and beatiful with Amiga ONE X1000/SAM460 as be as legacy A500/A600 for starters and a monster bearing the boing ball in his hand saying WE ARE BACK WE ARE AMIGA AND WE GOTTA make thin back again and again until we reach em

I want to contribuete what do you think?

Hope someone stay with me on this.Thank you in advance

I live near Bilbao Spain? Where do you live? You have to move if you want Amiga rise if not you don't want to be niche or hobbyist MOVE ON PEOPLE PLEASE!!!!!! CALL HYPERION AND ASK THEM OR I will do it myself.

Thanks to you for your support

I am newlight and remember that when I entered this site on 2007 I become a member to improve and help on Amiga things and for me too.Thank You and good luck



PD: I haven't read the thread except post from 1 to 10 but no problem all it's right

Last edited by newlight on 22-May-2015 at 11:51 AM.
Last edited by newlight on 22-May-2015 at 11:51 AM.
Last edited by newlight on 22-May-2015 at 11:44 AM.
Last edited by newlight on 22-May-2015 at 11:37 AM.
Last edited by newlight on 22-May-2015 at 11:35 AM.
Last edited by newlight on 22-May-2015 at 11:35 AM.

_________________
AMIGA 500 1.5 MB ACA500/ACA1232 accelerators
AMIGA 500 German
CD32 unexpanded
Amiga 1200 Tower on AmigaKit since years
AMIGA 1300 030/50 Mhz/32 MB WB 3.9 with lots of games&demos
AMIGA ONE XE G3 PPC 800 Mhz/1 GB RAM/RADEON 9250 128 MB/SATA CONTROLLER

@megol

Since I'm not afraid of repeating myself, metadata requires having space outside the file, either this must be stored in dedicated metadata sections of the filesystem (like on MacOS) or it must be stored in dedicated companion files (eg .info like on AmigaOS). Since filesystem based metadata is lost when exporting to a foreign filesystem I prefer the .info approach, thank you.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Quote:

Since I'm not afraid of repeating myself, metadata requires having space outside the file, either this must be stored in dedicated metadata sections of the filesystem (like on MacOS) or it must be stored in dedicated companion files (eg .info like on AmigaOS). Since filesystem based metadata is lost when exporting to a foreign filesystem I prefer the .info approach, thank you.

Since icon files are not recognized by foreign system I don't see difference.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@newlight

Quote:

MOVE ON PEOPLE PLEASE!!!!!! CALL HYPERION AND ASK THEM OR I will do it myself.

please do.

@wawa

What does he want to do? I do not understand

Buying Boing balls and Posters to make AmigaOS the leading system in the world?

Or he thinks the poster is enough to sell the expensive hardware?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 22-May-2015 at 05:28 PM.

@OlafS25

Quote:

Buying Boing balls and Posters to make AmigaOS the leading system in the world? Or he thinks the poster is enough to sell the expensive hardware?

I think he should wait until Hyperion is finished restructuring with the new leadership.

_________________
Dammy

@itix

filesystem != system

A .info from an Amiga can be archived on the Amiga and sent to a linux/windows/mac, unarchived there and put directly into a directory which is used for UAE, the Amiga will see all the metadata even if no linux/windows/mac software natively used it.

Not so much with MacOS metadata, as far as I remember. Allthough there is metadata handling in the smbfs for MacOS, isn't there?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

I thought the default IFF FORM file layout was metadata based, in that it is made up of Multiple chunks, including the 32 bit magic number header, FORM, with subsection 8SVX, ILBM etc etc, as teh definition of metadata isdata above and seperate from the data being described.

Otherwise all files such as Text, Would start at location 0 in the file with ACSII encoded text values only and finish with a NULL, C terminated string, giving a size of file that is exactly the length of file +1, the only identifier given would be the name and extention held in the hard drives hash index array?

_________________
The older and more respected a scientist is, the longer it takes to prove him wrong.

@wawa

I will do it and send a mail when I can.


Thank you mannnnnnnnnnn!!!!!

Last edited by newlight on 22-May-2015 at 09:13 PM.

_________________
AMIGA 500 1.5 MB ACA500/ACA1232 accelerators
AMIGA 500 German
CD32 unexpanded
Amiga 1200 Tower on AmigaKit since years
AMIGA 1300 030/50 Mhz/32 MB WB 3.9 with lots of games&demos
AMIGA ONE XE G3 PPC 800 Mhz/1 GB RAM/RADEON 9250 128 MB/SATA CONTROLLER

@RodTerl

"Data about the data" is the definition of metadata, but in essence you're right. As we all are, we're just talking about different things. But here's the problem:
How do you know if it's an IFF or something else? After all, a binary blob which starts with magic number of an ILBM and an actual picture? You need more info. Like a .info which explains which program to use, or a file ending of .iff, or an entry in the file system link node etc. All of these are external metadata, as they are external to the contents of the file.

What you are talking about is internal metadata, and that's only useful to the right program, once the external metadata has been decoded. Well, obviously there are exceptions to every rule. But for instance detecting the difference between a generic .zip and a .xlsx has my computer totally stumped if it doesn't use the file ending.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Well, this escalated...

I have no issues with default icons, as long as I can have specific icons too, I am quite happy with how icons are done on amiga like systems. As for default tools, I would have liked the possibility of setting two tools, one for viewing and one for editing. And hell yeah, I do want my OS3.1 compatible project folders back, so I can make a folder, change icon type to project and give it a tool for default action _on that specific folder_. I frankly do not get how this turned into a discussion about deficons and file type recognition.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC

@Boot_WB

When thinking about it there are few useful exceptions.

For example when you have different Installer script for each Amiga OS flavour they could use Installer icon variations to give a visual clue.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@megol

Quote:

What is that paradigm?

Placing a graphical representation over a text-based concept without making the graphical representation have more context than the text based one.

This is most commonly manifested by using the file name extension to assign a default generic view of the file. No graphical regard is given to the other aspects: such as file label, owner, or date.

Quote:

Et al. is used when naming authors...

Et al. simply means "and others" and can apply to any common grouping.

Quote:

I can only conclude that you mean Do Repeat Yourself

Nope, I mean Don't Repeat Yourself. And I was pretty clear about the area of its application when I stated "It goes against many good design and interface principles".

Having so many of the same icons repeated over and over again, taking up screen real-estate is simply utilitarian and not thought-through design. Apart from the file name, often shortened, the design of this interface paradigm goes against good design and interface principles.

Quote:

N.B. that your use of obscure TLAs doesn't make you seem knowledgeable, rather the opposite.

Not sure how the use of obscure TLAs makes me seem the opposite of knowledgable.

People who work in the field of UI and UX would be familiar, or rather should be familiar with the acronym. Other's are free to look it up if they're interested. I don't consider this forum to be a place to teach the uninterested in the finer points of a particular field.

The more I think about it, it seems like you are mostly upset at my previous post because it had you opening extra tabs in your browser to look things up like paradigm, et al., DRY, etc. (that's the proper use of etc BTW (which means By The Way)).

_________________
All the way, with 68k

@olegil

Since OSX, metadata is always stored in files and directories, and no longer in the file system. It's a great thing about Amiga that metadata files are consistantly named.

Btw, the unix "magic number" file recognition is a load of nonsense. First of all there is no "unix" concept about "opening" a file based on filetype, all unix applications, from "file" and "less" to the various desktops, have their own handling of this problem. Secondly, almost noone follows the conventions - remember how in late 90ies we were told that hashbang was to be "#! /" - hash bang space slash - so that scripts could be recogniced on 4 first bytes ("magic number")? How well did that go? Not very well, I have yet to see any distro of any *ix clean up their scripts.

_________________
B5D6A1D019D5D45BCC56F4782AC220D8B3E2A6CC